OK, I admit to not reading all of the posts on this forum, but I sometimes lurk over here. It seems to me that most of the discussions on here come down to two basic issues:

1) Some Christians believe that Scripture/Holy Bible is the only source of religious wisdom. Others believe in tradition.

2) It is useless to quote scripture to someone who may or may not believe in God (and certainly does not believe that Jesus was the Son of God/Messiah) to make your points.

Sometimes reading these posts is like watching a dog chase its tail. Amusing, but not productive.

Yep

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1) Some Christians believe that Scripture/Holy Bible is the only source of religious wisdom. Others believe in tradition.

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No, those are not the only two categories. There are Christians here who believe that the scriptures are the ultimate authority, but that there is as you say “religious wisdom” that is still good and even as you say “tradition” that is good. The position is that ultimately those other things must bow to the supreme authority of the Holy Spirit speaking through the scriptures.

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2) It is useless to quote scripture to someone who may or may not believe in God (and certainly does not believe that Jesus was the Son of God/Messiah) to make your points.

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Perhaps it may be in some situations, of no use, and they certainly wouldn’t see it as an authority, yet there is this promise:

Isa 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

^
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Case in point. Quoting scripture to prove why it's NOT useless to quote scripture to someone who may or may not believe in God (and certainly does not believe that Jesus was the Son of God/Messiah) to make your points.

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Case in point.

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Well we know that many people saw it. My question to you is: How can you be sure it did not accomplish something beyond your finite knowledge?

[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 5/2/2006 3:52p).]

Even many athiest and agnostics acknowledge that the Bible is the greatest source of moral, philosophical, and religious instruction in the history of man.

It is the most alluded to piece of literature in the history of the written word.

Where do you think atheists get their morality from ? Mother Nature?

I think your synopsis of the two basic problems on this board is an oversimplification of the discussions here. There have been many issues w/in protestantism that do not have anything to do w/tradition but interpretational differences.

The reason I quote bible verses are simply because they have a power that extends beyond belief in them. In other words the scriptures apply to the unbeliever as much as they apply to the believer. Just because someone doesn't believe in gravity does not mean they are not subject to the effects of it.

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Where do you think atheists get their morality from ? Mother Nature?

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umm...yes.

morality is based solely on one's situation and whether or not their basic (maslow's) needs are met. when there is no threat to people's food, shelter, family, etc. people will exist in harmony and in fact, work together. but when food and shelter becomes scarce, they will become brutally competitive.

a moral absolutist would say that in times of great famine, we should share meager helpings and all starve. but naturally, human instinct to survive would kick in, and socially constructed morals break down.

"Where do you think atheists get their morality from ?"

The same as everybody, Empathy.