"the baptism of John"

395 Views | 14 Replies | Last: 19 yr ago by AgGermany
combat wombat™
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quote:
Acts 18 24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.


quote:
Acts 19 1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.


I'm confused. What do they mean by "the baptism of John"?
Homsar
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The baptism of John is the baptism which John performed, simply signifying the salvation of a believer.
combat wombat™
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How was their second baptism different?
AgGermany
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Combat, find all the verses that talk about the baptism of John. Then find all the verses that talk about the Baptism Jesus commanded and that Peter and all the apostles taught and answer for yourself!

I will say that the baptism of John, was not being baptized in or into the name of Christ. You find the rest, read it for yourself and see the teaching.

You are asking the right questions! press on
Homsar
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The ritual of baptism at the time was not necessarily indicative of believing in Christ, but there is a difference between physical and Spiritual baptism. Physical baptism is what happens in water, spiritual baptism is what happens by the Spirit.

AgGermany is right.
combat wombat™
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I did a search for "baptism of John" and only came up with the one passage above from acts.
ramblin_ag02
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Here are some for you:

Joh 1:32 And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:

Mar 1:8 I baptized you in water; But he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:

Act 1:5 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?


The baptism of the Spirit happens when one believer that has the Spirit places their hands on a new believer. The "seed" of the Spirit is then imparted onto the new believer.

John's water baptism is a baptism of repentance. It symbolizes repentence of all previous sins, and rebirth as a new person.
combat wombat™
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Okay... what I am understanding is that there is baptism in water (sign of obedience?) and of the Holy Spirit. Not that there were two baptisms is water. Someone has used the verses I posted above as support for "re-baptising" someone who was baptized for "the wrong" reasons.

LevelAg
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The baptism of John had come and gone. It was to prepare the way of the Lord. Since Christ had already come and gone by the time of the Acts 19, the baptism of John was no longer of value.

A new baptism was instituted on Pentecost (Acts 2:38). It was also water baptism.

Holy Spirit baptism was short-lived for a very specific purpose (Read Acts 2, 10, and 11). It was fulfilled at this point so that by the time Ephesians was written, Paul could correctly say (Ephesians 4:5):
quote:
one Lord, one faith, one baptism


There was one water baptism (John's) and one Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 2, 10, 11).

There is one water baptism (the Lord's) (Acts 2:38, Acts 19:5, 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, etc).
LevelAg
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The baptism of John had come and gone. It was to prepare the way of the Lord. Since Christ had already come and gone by the time of the Acts 19, the baptism of John was no longer of value.

A new baptism was instituted on Pentecost (Acts 2:38). It was also water baptism.

Holy Spirit baptism was short-lived for a very specific purpose (Read Acts 2, 10, and 11). It was fulfilled at this point so that by the time Ephesians was written, Paul could correctly say (Ephesians 4:5):
quote:
one Lord, one faith, one baptism


There was one water baptism (John's) and one Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 2, 10, 11).

There is one water baptism (the Lord's) (Acts 2:38, Acts 19:5, 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, etc).
LevelAg
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The baptism of John had come and gone. It was to prepare the way of the Lord. Since Christ had already come and gone by the time of the Acts 19, the baptism of John was no longer of value.

A new baptism was instituted on Pentecost (Acts 2:38). It was also water baptism.

Holy Spirit baptism was short-lived for a very specific purpose (Read Acts 2, 10, and 11). It was fulfilled at this point so that by the time Ephesians was written, Paul could correctly say (Ephesians 4:5):
quote:
one Lord, one faith, one baptism


There was one water baptism (John's) and one Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 2, 10, 11).

There is one water baptism (the Lord's) (Acts 2:38, Acts 19:5, 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, etc).
ramblin_ag02
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quote:
The baptism of John had come and gone.

quote:
Holy Spirit baptism was short-lived for a very specific purpose (Read Acts 2, 10, and 11).


So let me get this straight. You practice neither the water baptism of John, nor the Holy Spirit baptism of the Apostles? What exactly is your baptism anyway?

All modern Christians, or so I thought, combine the elements of both John's baptism and Holy Spirit baptism into a single ritual. So while we only practise one baptism, it is really a two-in-one combined.
Guadaloop474
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City of Angels Prepares for Massive Pentecostal Flood

Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 Posted: 8:31:31AM EST

LOS ANGELES (AP) – It was 1906 when William Seymour, the son of slaves, traveled to a small church to preach that speaking in tongues was the ultimate path to salvation. The congregation rejected his message and promptly kicked him out.


But that wasn't the end of the story.

Committed to his belief, Seymour started his own prayer group – first at a friend's house and then at an abandoned church in northeast Los Angeles. Within weeks, people of all races were streaming to the City of Angels to see the services where worshippers fell to the ground and uttered strange, unintelligible sounds.

The boisterous, three-year revival that followed made international headlines and is widely credited as the birth of modern-day Pentecostalism. The movement, once relegated to the theological fringe, now claims up to 600 million followers worldwide and remains one of the fastest-growing sectors of Christianity, according to Vinson Synan, dean of Regent University's School of Divinity and an ordained minister of the Pentecostal Holiness Church.

Starting this weekend, up to 60,000 followers will descend on Los Angeles to mark the movement's 100th birthday, a celebration that begins with a visit to the street corner where the revival church once stood. The Azusa Street location, now in the heart of Little Tokyo, bears a commemorative plaque.

"We see the centennial as a homecoming for the movement, a wonderful memory of what God did 100 years ago," said the Rev. Billy Wilson, executive director of the Center for Spiritual Renewal, the celebration's sponsor. "We want to show the world that Pentecostals are about more than just feeling good and speaking in tongues."

Pentecostals believe in a personalized commitment to Christ and a second experience known as "baptism in the Holy Spirit." That baptism is most commonly accompanied by speaking in tongues, though other "gifts" from the Holy Spirit can include faith healing, the casting out of demons and modern-day prophecies. Followers base the practice on Acts 2:1-4, in which Jesus' apostles were "filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Mainline Christians had rejected speaking in tongues for more than a thousand years, believing that the Holy Spirit's gift stopped with the apostles. But when Seymour came to Los Angeles in 1906, conditions were ripe for the long-forgotten message.

The rough-edged town of 240,000 residents had doubled its population in just six years, and the city sprouted so many new churches that modern-day experts have called it an "American Jerusalem."

Hundreds of Christians were so concerned about the freewheeling mentality of the rapidly growing city that they had broken away from mainstream denominations to pray for a massive spiritual revival.

Those concerns reached a fever pitch on April 18 – just five weeks after Seymour's arrival – when San Francisco was rocked by a massive earthquake. Many saw the quake as a sign of the apocalypse.

The same day as the disaster, a major Los Angeles newspaper published a front-page story about Seymour's strange prayer meetings – all-night services so rowdy that two policemen were posted full time at the church to keep order. The story bore the headline "Weird Babel of Tongues: New Sect of Fanatics is Breaking Loose."

Soon, all eight major newspapers were covering the revival, as were religious newspapers called "holiness circulars" that were passed among evangelical churches nationwide. Word spread across the nation – and then the world – about the massive revival under way in Los Angeles.

One of the revival's most notable characteristics, experts say, was that blacks and whites worshipped under the same roof and shared pastoral duties.

"At its height, it drew people from all classes, wealthy and poor, Hispanics, blacks, Jews – you name it, everybody came," said Synan. "Whole churches collapsed and joined it. There was a force there, it was almost supernatural. People said they could feel it in the air from about three blocks away."

Within eight months, nearly 20 missionaries from the revival struck out for Africa, India and China to start Pentecostal churches, said Cecil M. Robeck Jr., professor of church history and ecumenics at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena.

Revival attendees also established Pentecostal churches across the South and the Midwest, including the Pentecostal Holiness Church, the Church of God in Cleveland, Tenn., and the Church of God in Christ in Memphis.

Pentecostalism's influence can also be felt in other evangelical churches, particularly in the music and worship style of megachurches, Synan said.

"I can go into almost any Baptist and Methodist church and feel like I'm in a Pentecostal church," he said. "They sing the same songs, the same choruses, they lift their hands."

Today's Pentecostals are less likely to speak in tongues, however, perhaps in part because the practice caused them to be shunned by some mainline denominations. Experts estimate that only 40 percent of Pentecostals speak in tongues today, and even fewer do so overseas, where the movement is growing the fastest, Robeck said.

"That's a real pastoral issue these days," he said. "We still do argue that every Pentecostal should have that ability but a lot of folk are not following through with it."

Those attending the centennial celebration, including a who's who of Pentecostal preachers, hope to address those concerns and plan their ministry for the next 100 years.

"Pentecostals are no longer as much on the wrong side of the tracks and are again in the mainstream of evangelical life in America," Wilson said. "We want to evaluate what has happened. Have we gone the right direction with what God originally did?"
Notafraid
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The baptism of Juan? Would that have anything to do with the Rio Grand?
AgGermany
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Matthew 21:25
"The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?" And they began reasoning among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' He will say to us, 'Then why did you not believe him?'
Mark 11:30
"Was the baptism of John from heaven, or from men? Answer Me."

1. We know he Baptism of John was from Heaven.

Mark 1:4
John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

2. We know John preached a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 3:3-9 And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;
4as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, "THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.
5'EVERY RAVINE WILL BE FILLED, AND EVERY MOUNTAIN AND HILL WILL BE BROUGHT LOW;
THE CROOKED WILL BECOME STRAIGHT, AND THE ROUGH ROADS SMOOTH;
6 AND ALL FLESH WILL SEE THE SALVATION OF GOD.'"
7 So he began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8"Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father,' for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

3. We know John’s Baptism was for the forgiveness of sins. The ones who were baptized were to bear fruits keeping with repentance, why? Beacuse their sins were forgiven. They were NOT baptized after their sins were forgiven, but so that their sins would be forgiven.

Acts 19 has a lesson for us as you pointed out that the "disciples" needed to be baptized, because they "knew" only the baptism of John.

Since we have seen how God defined John's baptism, and that is different from the baptism Christ's. We can now see the distinction that makes a difference.

[This message has been edited by AgGermany (edited 4/22/2006 7:14a).]
AgGermany
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Here is the distinction that makes the difference in the baptism commanded by Christ:

Matthew 18:18-20
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

We see: Jesus claimed authority and commanded disciples (followers) be made of all nations, baptizing them in the name, and teaching them to observe all.

If you weren’t baptized into the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit. Then what were you baptized “INTO”?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Belief and baptism are required for being saved. Disbelief will bring condemnation. Can you disbelieve what Jesus said or who Jesus is an believed you are saved?

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
38Peter said to them, " Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Repentance and baptism for the forgiveness of sins, this cannot be more clear. Baptism is described by Peter here as “for the forgiveness of sins”, not something done after your sins were forgiven or because of...

You don’t wash your hands because they have been cleaned, you wash them to get the dirt off. In this Spiritual case you submit to a washing by God, only HE can forgive sins and precribed baptism.

Acts 22:16 ‘Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

I Peter 3:20-22 …eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
21Corresponding to that (being brought safely through the water), baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. (same authority as Matt 28, and Mark 16)

What saves you? The Water of baptism? NO, the appeal to God for a Good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ! Where is this appeal made? In the submission to Christ in baptism. Jesus' authority for this is again cited.

Romans 6:3-4
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Being baptized is being added into Christ and into his death, and resurrection and we are raised to a new life.

Or don’t you know this? Don't you know baptism put you in contact with death? and resurrection.

Back to Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Those who accept the teaching of Christ will be baptized, and there were added to 3,000 souls.

3,000 souls to what?

The Bible speaks…
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Addded to the number of the saved?
How were they saved?

By Christ, by the power of his resurrection! When did they receive this gift of being added to this wonderful number of the saved? AT BAPTISM, immersed into the Christ authorized water, cleansed by the power of HIS resurrection, by his own blood.

Revelations 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--

The Water, the Spirit and the Blood all in a beautiful concert.

I John 3:5-8
5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7 For there are three that testify:
8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

John the baptist showed the way to Christ, and Christ shows us the way through Him.

[This message has been edited by AgGermany (edited 4/22/2006 8:01a).]
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