Luke 14:26: "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

Deuteronomy 5:16: "`Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you; that your days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with you, in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

Comments?

Jesus says that nothing should come between you and God. Even good things such as family and the instinct of self-preservation cannot become idols to the true disciple.

This is not inconsistent with honoring of one's parents. I fail to see the conflict.

Where is the contradiction that you speak of? God doesnt want us to put anyone above him, even our family.

One of many.

muster ag, would love to see said verses

I'm waiting

Should we love or hate others?

Here it says we can hate all including our own family.....

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


Yet here it says we should love all....

Leviticus 19:17
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart.

Leviticus 19:18
Love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20-21
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


Ironically it is 2 verses from OT Leviticus that say we should love all yet the NT Luke says its ok to hate.

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Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
-Luke 14:25-27

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You CANNOT just take one verse or passage out of context. This why we are to study the whole Bible. Do you think that Christ was truly advocating "hating" one's mother or father? This would also go completely against what he says in Matthew 22:39 as to what the second greatest commandment was. In fact, Matthew 22 gives us a deeper understanding of what Christ meant when he said that you must hate your father and mother.

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"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
-Matthew 22:36-40

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Could Christ truly teach one to "hate" when he says that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself? No, he cannot. But, if you look at the GREATEST commandment, and then look at the SECOND GREATAST commandment, it would show Christ's point when he says to "hate" your father and mother. The word "hate" here means moreso to be "loved less than another".

Also, a couple verses later in Luke 14:35, Jesus says, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." This same phrase is used at other times in the Scriptures as well. It is usually an indication that a difficult teaching has been given that will require a certain amount of contemplation of the words.

Check out the parallel account of this same sermon in Matthew 10:34-39. You will notice the word "hate" is not used here. In fact, you will see that Christ's teachings were not to actually "hate" your family, but instead to love God more than all of them.

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"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw— a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
-Matthew 10:34-39

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And if that is not enough, one can look back at Exodus 20. The word "hate" is also used in this passage.

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"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me
-Exodus 20:3-5

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To have other gods is to love them above God. Therefore, to have other gods is to "hate" God.

There are many apparent contradictions in Scripture, but this is why we must rely on the fullness of God's Word and not just one verse or passage.

[This message has been edited by three and out (edited 4/18/2006 12:49a).]

The other dichotomy was that he said you must hate your father, after he told everyone not to call anyone on earth your father.

The lesson here is that sometimes Jesus used hyperbole to make a point - "hate" your mother and father, rather than to honor your mother and father. Taking this one verse in isolation from the rest of the bible and its context and trying to understand its meaning by itself would mean that you would have to hate your mother and father, rather than to honor and love them. Wrong way to do it.

"sometimes Jesus used hyperbole"

How ambiguous is that? Sounds like spin to me.

Another lesson here is that the natural man/mind cannot understand the things of the spirit.

In the initial two verses I see no contradiction, but I am looking at the whole of scripture.

The contradictions listed aren't really contradictions.

In Psalms or Proverbs, I don't remember which one, it says that a multitude of counselors is wisdom, and then turns around and says that a multitude of counselors is confusion.

Others see this as a contradiction; I see none.
Sometimes in many voices there is confusion, and sometimes there is wisdom. Both are true, and part of the Holy Spirit's joy is to lead us into which one is correct.

The natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/newtestament/id19.html

There are actually more than I expected. There are literally hundreds if not thousands. Seems that the bible was poorly written.


Here are a few of the gems.


Baasha dies and his son Ela begins his reign over Israel - this was in the 26th year of king Asa of Judah - 1 Kings 16:6,8
In the 36th year of Asa's reign, Baasha attacks Judah - 2 Chron 16:1
NB. 2 Chron has Baasha still fighting 10 years after 1 Kings says he died!


Drinking alcohol is acceptable - Deuteronomy 14:26, John 2:7-11, 1 Timothy 5:23
Drinking alcohol is not acceptable - Proverbs 20:1, 23:31-34, Hosea 4:11

Jesus baptised - John 3:22
Jesus did not baptise - John 4:2

No one has ascended into heaven before Jesus - John 3:13
Elijah ascended into heaven - 2 Kings 2:11

Christians to hate their brothers - - Luke 14:26
Whoever hates their brother cannot have eternal life - 1 John 3:15

muster ag:

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No one has ascended into heaven before Jesus - John 3:13
Elijah ascended into heaven - 2 Kings 2:11

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This is a common misinterpretation.

Elijah did not ascend into heaven, he was transported from one location on earth, to another location on earth.

King Ahab received a letter from Elijah 10 years after this alleged "ascension."

In fact, when Elijah confronted the prophets of Baal, Obadiah was afraid that God would transport Elijah away before he could return with the king:

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1 Kings 18:12: And it shall come to pass, [as soon as] I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and [so] when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth.

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It was well-known in Elijah's day that God often transported him around.

[This message has been edited by Bracy (edited 4/18/2006 1:19p).]

Muster, Loseman,

You guys aren't serious are you? If so you need to turn you ship-skins back into TAMU...jeez!

[This message has been edited by Apetree (edited 4/18/2006 1:27p).]

Believers are unnatural?

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Believers are unnatural?

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In this earthly world...YES.

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"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
-John 17:14

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Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
-1 Peter 2:11

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"It was well-known in Elijah's day that God often transported him around"

Is that like Star Trek?

"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
-John 17:14

Yes but remember, hate here just means to love them less than another.

flech-

This is why you need to know all of Scripture. Words are not always used the same way. In the two parallel accounts, it was clear what was meant by "hate" because it Matthew 10 told us. The same was true of Exodus. Even though John 14:7 does indeed use the same Greek word as Luke 14:26, but it does not necessarily mean the same thing. When reading Scripture, you must analyze some things such as who the intended audience was. The people at the time would have known through context that the Greek word "miseo" could mean different things in different circumstances.

i'm too lazy to go back and actually cite particular posts, but i'm just going to address two difficulties (flaws that are inherent in discussing the meaning of scripture.

1) translation: there is no way to perfectly and fully convey the meaning of the written word from one language to the next. and each minute difference in meaning is increased exponentially with each new generation of translation.

2) someone mentioned "the fullness of god's word". having faith in a book of scripture is not only an act of faith that the authors of the individual books were genuine and divinely inspired, but also an act of faith in the councils of men throughout history that have deemed what books are worthy of the canon. faith that the motives of a body of men are purely in the interest of truth, and not of power and security for themselves and the religion they embody.

conver2sations,

Yes, believing that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God requires faith, so what? So does most everything we believe to be true.

The question is what do you put your faith in?

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"It was well-known in Elijah's day that God often transported him around"

Is that like Star Trek?

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Call it whatever you wish. Acts Chapter 8 gives us an example of the same thing happening with Philip:

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Acts 8:39-40: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

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How about having faith in non religious things?

mrs. lovelight,

so what you're saying is that, faith requires faith requires faith requires faith, which requires faith?

what do i put my faith in? i would say "nothing", but then by answering your question i would be giving validation to the concept of belief without knowledge.

Apetree

My diploma does not state I have to believe in a god, this is not the Boy Scouts of America.