An Open Letter to Michael Schiavo

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Guadaloop474
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An Open Letter to Michael Schiavo

To: National Desk

Contact: Jerry Horn, Priests for Life, 540-220-0095

NEW YORK, March 25 /Christian Wire Service/ -- Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director of Priests for Life, and an eyewitness to Terri Schiavo’s final hours, released the following open letter to Michael Schiavo tonight. Fr. Pavone will read it to a worldwide audience on an internationally broadcast religious service on Sunday morning, March 26.

Dear Michael,

A year ago this week, I stood by the bedside of the woman you married and promised to love in good times and bad, in sickness and health. She was enduring a very bad time, because she hadn’t been given food or drink in nearly two weeks. And you were the one insisting that she continue to be deprived of food and water, right up to her death. I watched her face for hours on end, right up to moments before her last breath. Her death was not peaceful, nor was it beautiful. If you saw her too, and noticed what her eyes were doing, you know that to describe her last agony as peaceful is a lie.

This week, tens of millions of Americans will remember those agonizing days last year, and will scratch their heads trying to figure out why you didn’t simply let Terri’s mom, dad, and siblings take care of her, as they were willing to do. They offered you, again and again, the option to simply let them care for Terri, without asking anything of you. But you refused and continued to insist that Terri’s feeding be stopped. She had no terminal illness. She was simply a disabled woman who needed extra care that you weren’t willing to give.

I speak to you today on behalf of the tens of millions of Americans who still wonder why. I speak to you today to express their anger, their dismay, their outraged astonishment at your behavior in the midst of this tragedy. Most people will wonder about these questions in silence, but as one of only a few people who were eyewitnesses to Terri’s dehydration, I have to speak.

I have spoken to you before, not in person, but through mass media. Before Terri’s feeding tube was removed for the last time, I appealed to you with respect, asking you not to continue on the road you were pursuing, urging you to reconsider your decisions, in the light of the damage you were doing. I invited you to talk. But you did not respond.

Then, after Terri died, I called her death a killing, and I called you a murderer because you knew – as we all did – that ceasing to feed Terri would kill her. We watched, but you had the power to save her. Her life was in your hands, but you threw it away, with the willing cooperation of attorneys and judges who were as heartless as you were. Some have demanded that I apologize to you for calling you a murderer. Not only will I not apologize, I will repeat it again. Your decision to have Terri dehydrated to death was a decision to kill her. It doesn’t matter if Judge Greer said it was legal. No judge, no court, no power on earth can legitimize what you did. It makes no difference if what you did was legal in the eyes of men; it was murder in the eyes of God and of millions of your fellow Americans and countless more around the world. You are the one who owes all of us an apology.

Your actions offend us. Not only have you killed Terri and deeply wounded her family, but you have disgraced our nation, betrayed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and undermined the principles that hold us together as a civilized society. You have offended those who struggle on a daily basis to care for loved ones who are dying, and who sometimes have to make the very legitimate decision to discontinue futile treatment. You have offended them by trying to confuse Terri’s circumstances with theirs. Terri’s case was not one of judging treatment to be worthless – which is sometimes the case; rather, it was about judging a life to be worthless, which is never the case.

You have made your mark on history, but sadly, it is an ugly stain. In the name of millions around the world, I call on you today to embrace a life of repentance, and to ask forgiveness from the Lord, who holds the lives of each of us in His hands.

-- Fr. Frank Pavone
DJ
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Ouch!
Big Bite
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And, oh, if Michael did exactly as his wife would have wanted (as would I), then...ugh....nevermind.
flechenbones
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Thankfully, we don't live in a theocracy and a man can carry out his wife's wishes.
Real shame the religous right cares more Schiavo, but not the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed over the past three years - many of whom were just "collateral damage". I wonder what God thinks about the killing of so many innocents, particularly since they had nothing to do with 9/11.

[This message has been edited by flechenbones (edited 3/29/2006 12:58p).]
ro828
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If Terri's wishes had been clearly known this would not have been a problem. But both parties marched forward thinking they were advocating what Terri "would have wanted," which nobody knew for sure.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
If you saw her too, and noticed what her eyes were doing, you know that to describe her last agony as peaceful is a lie.


The women's brain was mush. There was no person left to feel pain. This is the one lie that certain folks are willing to perpetuate in order to make their point.
Guadaloop474
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Excuse me, but brain dead does not equal soul dead. Terri's wishes were unknown. Her adulterous "husband" killed her plain and simple by dehydration and starvation, which is reminiscent of Auschwitz. And Judge Greer, a liberal's liberal, went along with it.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
but brain dead does not equal soul dead


Thank you Doctor. I really don't want to rehash this argument, as it motivates people to speak with authority despite their utter lack of knowledge on the subject. This whole affair is shameful.
Guadaloop474
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You are correct, Windy City... Auschwitz in America is indeed shameful. Why don't we just kill all of tht invalids in America? They just take up space anyway....
Picadillo
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quote:
Thankfully, we don't live in a theocracy and a man can carry out his wife's wishes.
Real shame the religous right cares more Schiavo, but not the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed over the past three years - many of whom were just "collateral damage". I wonder what God thinks about the killing of so many innocents, particularly since they had nothing to do with 9/11.


Can you prove without a doubt what her wishes were? You can't. You can only take the word of Michael Schiavo.

As for the fact that your so-called "religious right" does not "care" for the Iraqis killed, is only inflammatory, speculative and bogus. We do care, we also cared about the torture and rape rooms, the mass graves and those killed by the thousands, by the previous regime, which can be proved. Given your values, may we assume that you were willing to let this continue?

quote:
There was no person left to feel pain.
Again, another wild statement that cannot be proved.

Raj95
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How can you be soul dead?

The soul is eternal.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Auschwitz in America is indeed shameful. Why don't we just kill all of tht invalids in America? They just take up space anyway....


Can I slap this in the dictionary under absurd/over the top statement? Yeesh!
Homsar
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quote:
Thankfully, we don't live in a theocracy and a man can carry out his wife's wishes.
Real shame the religous right cares more Schiavo, but not the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed over the past three years - many of whom were just "collateral damage". I wonder what God thinks about the killing of so many innocents, particularly since they had nothing to do with 9/11.

This is so typical it is hilarious.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Again, another wild statement that cannot be proved.


It is not suprising that people so willing to trash over a century of natural science will also throw medical science out the window to suit an argument.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
How can you be soul dead?

The soul is eternal.


Excellent question.
Tanya 93
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Then change the law

Michael Schiavo had every single authority to make this decision.

No one could change that.
Windy City Ag
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But spirtual law overrides secular law in many minds (and 9 times out of 10 folks often have a good case to heed the good book versus the good state of Texas).
Picadillo
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quote:
It is not suprising that people so willing to trash over a century of natural science will also throw medical science out the window to suit an argument.
Your statement sidesteps the wild statement you made above that a human being that cannot feel pain is OK to be put to death.

We’ve seen this language before. Unborn baby = gob of tissue. Partial birth abortion = D & X procedure. Abortion = choice. Fetus = non-person. Starvation and euthanasia = death with dignity.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Your statement sidesteps the wild statement you made above that a human being that cannot feel pain is OK to be put to death.

We’ve seen this language before. Unborn baby = gob of tissue. Partial birth abortion = D & X procedure. Abortion = choice. Fetus = non-person. Starvation and euthanasia = death with dignity.


This is classic Picadillo logic! Absolutely wonderful.

The article says:

quote:
Her death was not peaceful, nor was it beautiful. If you saw her too, and noticed what her eyes were doing, you know that to describe her last agony as peaceful is a lie.


i.e. the guy says her death involved her suffering through "agony".

So I say:

quote:
The women's brain was mush. There was no person left to feel pain.


Which was supported by the autopsy report. I respond

quote:
It is not suprising that people so willing to trash over a century of natural science will also throw medical science out the window to suit an argument.


I say that a person with no brain can't feel pain. Not a big stretch there, except for possibly Pic. And what does Pic think I am saying???

quote:
Your statement sidesteps the wild statement you made above that a human being that cannot feel pain is OK to be put to death.

We’ve seen this language before. Unborn baby = gob of tissue. Partial birth abortion = D & X procedure. Abortion = choice. Fetus = non-person. Starvation and euthanasia = death with dignity.


Notice the wonderfully unsubstantiated words you ram into my mouth. The logic in the last statement is rather absurd as well. Your jump from fetus to starvation was a master stroke.

Shall we move on to how a hat was turned into a fossil by the Australian geyser?
Guitarsoup
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quote:
not the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed over the past three years - many of whom were just "collateral damage".


Check your numbers. It is closer to 30,000 Iraqis, many if not most of whom were killed by insurgents.

Do you not care for the hundreds of thousands who were brutally murdered with weapons of mass destruction under the oppressive theocratic dictatorship of Saddam Hussain? Is the world not a better place with Hussain behind bars?

You can be a total hypocrite and be thankful that we dont live in a theocracy, but want to keep innocent Iraqis in an oppressive theocracy to be tortured and killed by an insane dictator.
Picadillo
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Windy: We'll just see who's got the better logic.

quote:
Which was supported by the autopsy report.
Not.

Rather than just pulling stuff out of your a** like you usually do, care to produce an autopsy report...ANY autopsy report, that states that her brain was "mush" as you call it? Won't happen, it's not there; that is just another irresponsible spouting off on your part, sport.

It was the press that widely used the term,"liquified" in describing Terri's brain prior to the autopsy, and apparently you bought it.

The autopsy report states loss of brain weight. This is commonplace in situations involving dehydration.

In addition, the autopsy does not state that she was incapable of feeling pain, as you seem to be so certain of. The level and state of consciousness is a function of a variety of factors, most of which are not illuminated by an autopsy, or by brain weight measurements.

The regions that govern cognition and emotion were largely intact in Terri's brain, according to the autopsy itself.

And then, would you care to produce some science...which you are so fond of, that backs up your statement:

quote:
I say that a person with no brain can't feel pain.
This is wild and silly speculation, and mocks a very sad and serious situation.

You have put yourself into a position where you must now prove that she had no brain (your words) and that such a person feels no pain. Both assumptions are false;.... I'll just save you the time and further embarrassment.

Guitarsoup
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Her brain wasnt just dehydrated, it was half the size that it should have been. That is a lot of loss - not just dehydrated water weight. Her brain was discolored, scarred and irreversable.

quote:
The condition of her brain was "consistent with a persistent vegetative state," said Stephen J. Nelson, a neuropathologist in Winter Haven, Fla., who was consulted by the medical examiner's office.

That means she was not at all conscious and would never ever be, no matter what therapy they did.


If yall want to actually read something substantive...
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0615051terri1.html
Picadillo
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Guitar: I for one am not arguing that she was conscious or that she would have regained consciousness.

My argument is that her brain was not “mush” as some, like Windy Ag, would call it.

That statement is not supported by the autopsy report. The term “mush” was media-driven hysteria, as if someone took out her brain, sloshed it around in a blender, and put it back in her head. It was reduced in size. A reduced brain size does not equate to having no feelings of pain in such an individual. As the ME report says, Terri was brain-injured, and that is an important distinction from “brain dead”…another popular media term.

If anything, the ME report confirmed that she was not terminal. It also confirms that the cause of death was dehydration, not any former brain injury or condition. The ME report said that with proper care, she would have lived another 10 years, even in such a condition.
Losman
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It seems she died 13 years ago and her body was sustained all these years because her family did not want to let go. If Michael Schivao did not do the merciful thing and have the feeding tube pulled she would still be kept on life support and who knows how long her body would have been used as a pawn for both sides.
Guitarsoup
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Nope Pic - she is in PVS - she had no feeling. Putting a cigarette out on her arm would not have hurt her.

As her brain was discolored and half the size it should have been, mush is a fairly simplistic way of terming it, but simply it did not work.
Guitarsoup
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quote:

If anything, the ME report confirmed that she was not terminal. It also confirms that the cause of death was dehydration, not any former brain injury or condition. The ME report said that with proper care, she would have lived another 10 years, even in such a condition.


Everyone KNEW that the cause of death would be dehydration, as they took out her water tube. That wasnt the question.

She was sustained artificially - not naturally. She could not eat or drink - trying to get her to do so would have killed her.

You could have taken just about any brain dead victim and force their body to survive for years through modern medicine - but if they have absolutely no possibility of getting better, why waste the time, space, medical care and money to do so? Those resources could be better used elsewhere. It isnt like we have too much medicine to go around in this country.
Ol Jock 99
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quote:
It seems she died 13 years ago and her body was sustained all these years because her family did not want to let go.

I agree with Losman...I need to take a shower...
Windy City Ag
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My mush comment was a figure of speech. Like most things, you took it a blew it into absurd
nonsense. I was of course not implying that her brain was stuck in a blender and liquified. That is your oafish ranting. My point was that her brain was destroyed and she wasn't coming back. She was permanently unconscious. There was no one in their to feel pain. She was asleep for ever.

Reasonable people probably inferred that. One of them has already set you straight.

So yes . . . my logic is still more straighforward than yours. I say her brain was mush and she couldn't fell pain, so pull out of your arse the deceitful red herring that I think it is okay to put PVS patients to death.

I repeat that her brain is mush and you reach ever farther up your arse and pull it the bizarre objection to the term "mush", which clearly has nothing to do with the fact she couldn't feel pain. You offer another deceitful red herring about me repeating some "media lie" which I had personally never heard of before I read your post.

You are like the Chris Farley of debate. You think falling on your head repeatedly and looking stupid in front of the world somehow advances your side of the argument.

[This message has been edited by Windy City Ag (edited 3/29/2006 9:23p).]
dermdoc
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What is shameful is that guy is going to make money on his book.Whatever your feelings are about whether she was brain-dead or not-Why not let her parents take care of her?And why try to make money off of the whole deal?Sounds awful sleazy to me.
Picadillo
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quote:
Everyone KNEW that the cause of death would be dehydration, as they took out her water tube. That wasnt the question.
Agree that it wasn’t the question. My argument is over embecile comments like "her brain was mush". There was no such thing as "mush" observed in the autopsy, nor was any brain condition cited as a cause of death.

quote:
She was sustained artificially - not naturally.
No quibble here; but I’m not sure of the point you’re trying to make.

quote:
.... but if they have absolutely no possibility of getting better, why waste the time, space, medical care and money to do so? Those resources could be better used elsewhere. It isnt like we have too much medicine to go around in this country.
I respect your position on this; it’s a tough question that crosses all sorts of disciplines and considerations.

You seem to be hanging your hat on the diagnosis of PVS. Have you read about the error rates associated with this diagnosis? Do you not find it interesting that a ME report would make a comment like “consistent with PVS”? Odd that a diagnosis that runs an error rate typically over 40% on LIVE patients, is now all of a sudden golden when a ME examines a dead person. Interesting.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
What is shameful is that guy is going to make money on his book.Whatever your feelings are about whether she was brain-dead or not-Why not let her parents take care of her?And why try to make money off of the whole deal?Sounds awful sleazy to me.


I think that is pretty shady as well. I don't know why the parents weren't allowed to take care of her. He is either a monster or she really didn't want to be on life support and he was defending her wishes against the entire world, in which case he is brave.

As I said earlier, people with no real understanding of the situaiton other than what they read on propoganda websites will tell you they are 100% sure what happened.

Sadly, people who defended this girls life so passionately have since sat on their hands and not muttered a peep. People are pulled off life support every day due to conditions like this one. Despite all of the verbal fireworks, we have done little to answer the tough questions raised by this case.

1) Is it the husbands right to look after his wifes wishes if her family objects?

2) Is it ethical to extend people's life indefinitley despite them having zero chance of recovery like Terri Schiavo? Aren't we meddling with God's will?

3) Is it the Federal Governments role to intervene in a family's struggle, like we saw in this case?
Picadillo
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Windy: Thanks for at least admitting your error in deaming her brain as "mush". That's one. You and Nina Totenburg ought to get on well together.

Your name calling when you're bobbing and weaving is amusing; almost a Shakespearean quality; thanks for the entertainment.

You also said she was "There was no person left to feel pain." What evidence do you use for such a judgement?



[This message has been edited by Picadillo (edited 3/29/2006 9:50p).]
NoACDamnit
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If she could have felt the pain of the dehydration she would have been in AGONY over several years as many of her bones were simply shattering.

Thankfully, she wasn't capable of processing sensation.
Old Style
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quote:
but you had the power to save her

Talk about absurd, over-the-top statements.
Ol Jock 99
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Terri's brain wasn't mush. Terri's brain was gone.

Normal on left. Terri in 2002 on right.



My wife, an MD, Christian and all around wonderful and kind person (I'm bias, but others agree), saw that and said "She's dead. Period, end of story. Her 'life' is artificial."

[This message has been edited by Ol Jock 99 (edited 3/29/2006 10:16p).]
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