Can Muslims be Good Americans?

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a
loyal citizen? Consider this:

* Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to
Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

* Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is
to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

* Geographically, no. Because his allegiance
is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer 5 times a day.

* Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids
him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

* Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah
(spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel
and destruction of America, the great Satan.

* Domestically, no, because he is instructed
to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when
she disobeys him.
(Quran 4:34).

* Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his
Allah except Islam.
(Quran, 2:256)

* Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept
the American Constitution since it is based on
Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

* Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the
Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression.

* Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God,"
the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER
referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called
Love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist

Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Therefore after much study and deliberation perhaps we
should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.
They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish... it's the truth.
The more who understand this, the better it will be.




Just received this in an email and I found it interestting. However, isn't Turkey a Democracy?


[This message has been edited by Apetree (edited 2/20/2006 10:09a).]

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Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist

Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

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I guess someone should tell these guys. Apparently they didn't get the memo.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html

As ramblin_ag pointed out Turkey has had a republican form of government for 80 years or so. If democracy and Islam cannot co-exist, I guess we're wasting our time in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Lot of the bs in this "e-mail", if you just changed the wording a bit, was said about Catholics for years and years.


[This message has been edited by jkag89 (edited 2/20/2006 10:24a).]

i think the same question was asked about the japanese during WW2. the paranoia is starting to become overwhelming.........

Hey Apetree, Senator McCarthy called and he would like his irrational hysteria mongering tactics back.


“Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule—and both commonly succeed, and are right.”
--H. L. Mencken

"* Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept
the American Constitution since it is based on
Biblical principles "

Wrong

Yikes. McCarthyism indeed.

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Therefore after much study and deliberation perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.

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True, true. Perhaps if they all lived together somewhere together, say Tula Lake, CA or Crystal City, TX?



[/sarcasm]

* Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

My allegiance is to YHWH Elohim.

* Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is
to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

My allegiance is to the Bible.

* Geographically, no. Because his allegiance
is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer 5 times a day.

My allegiance is to Jerusalem.

* Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

My Bible tells me: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” (2 Corinthians 6:14)

* Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Cathlics believe in submission to Papal authority, Jews believe in submission to Rabbinic authority.

* Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his
Allah except Islam.
(Quran, 2:256)

My Bible says: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3).

• * Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept
the American Constitution since it is based on
Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Heck, *I* believe our Greek translations to be corrupt.

* Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression.

My Bible says: "Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise." (Deut 12:30)

* Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist

I'm not sure that Democracy and Christianity can either.

* Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

So is the Kingdom of God.

[This message has been edited by Bracy (edited 2/20/2006 1:41p).]

Bracy, I started to post a reply, read yours, and decided that you said pretty much what I wanted to say.

Religions are able to rule over people regardless of borders. That is what makes them such a power political force. For instance the Catholic Church pretty much rules South America.

Yes Muster, you are all knowing. Hugo Chavez is clearly a pawn of the Vatican. Columbia cuts the cocaine just like John Paul liked before shipping it. Brazil is proud to keep the decency standards of the Vatican close to heart. It is a continential theocracy.

muster - You are living on another planet. Do you really think that the Vatican actually wants CARNIVAL in Rio to happen? Hugo Chavez has been denounced by the Cardinal in Venezuela.

Muslims can be good Americans, until they become the majority. Then, just like in all other countries they control, they will try to change everything. In Denmark, they are demanding a law that it be illegal to draw cartoons of Mohammed. Next, they will probably try to outlaw pork products....

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Jews believe in respect for Rabbinic authority.

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There, Bracy. I fixed it for ya.




[This message has been edited by opk (edited 2/20/2006 2:10p).]

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Muslims can be good Americans, until they become the majority. Then, just like in all other countries they control, they will try to change everything. In Denmark, they are demanding a law that it be illegal to draw cartoons of Mohammed. Next, they will probably try to outlaw pork products....

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Did you realize you just made a great argument for keeping ALL religion (including Christianity) out of the public realm.

No.

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In Denmark, they are demanding a law that it be illegal to draw cartoons of Mohammed. Next, they will probably try to outlaw pork products....

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How would this be different than Tom Monaghan wanting Ave Maria's pharmacies not to carry contraceptives? I'm sure you'll be quite upset if the Florida SC or legislature over rules his plan.

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As ramblin_ag pointed out Turkey has had a republican form of government for 80 years or so.

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I pointed that out.

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i think the same question was asked about the Japanese during WW2.

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Are you suggesting the Roosevelt was wrong to hold the Japanese the way he did, in a time of war? Did you know that the Japanese had agents in the US, we knew it, but didn't know exactly who they were?

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Hey Apetree, Senator McCarthy called and he would like his irrational hysteria mongering tactics back.

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Dumb post on your part but I will go ahead and respond. McCarthy probably was a little strange but he was also 100% correct and that is a fact! Go do about 10 minutes of research.

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"* Intellectually, no, because he cannot acceptthe American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles "Wrong

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Not wrong but I wouldn't expect anything else from you. But thanks for trying to hijack the thread.




and the post replacing Muslims with Christians...just stupid. Christianity teaches that we are to love our enemies. Now some bad guys do some bad things in the name of religion but that doesn't make them Christians. However, Islam TEACHES that it is not only okay to murder anyone that is not a muslim but in many instances it is REQUIRED. Certainly, some of you self proclaimed mental giants can discern the difference?????

Hey - Tom is free to request anything he wants, and the pharmacy is free to follow their customer's desires, or to do their own thing.

Now, if Tom called for a jihad against the pharmacy, that would be wrong...

opk:

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There, Bracy. I fixed it for ya.

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I don't mean any offense, but I don't think there is any other way to interpret the following than the way I stated it above:

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Rava expounded: My son! Be careful concerning Rabbinical decrees even more than the Torah. Because the Torah contains requirements and prohibitions, while the Rabbinical decrees: Anyone who violates a Rabbinical decree is worthy of death (b.Eruvin 21b).

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I pointed that out.

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Sorry Apetree, don't know how I missed that. Must remember to read more carefully any post that I respond to.

Bracy:

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I don't mean any offense, but I don't think there is any other way to interpret the following than the way I stated it above:

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:Rava expounded: My son! Be careful concerning Rabbinical decrees even more than the Torah. Because the Torah contains requirements and prohibitions, while the Rabbinical decrees: Anyone who violates a Rabbinical decree is worthy of death (b.Eruvin 21b).

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Bracy, my friend. He was expressing an opinion which must be taken in the context of the era in which he lived. To transpose that to today and say "that is the way all [insert] feel" is really a stretch. We can learn from the quotation and understand how strongly the rabbi felt, in this case, about authority, but it carries no weight today.

They are words to be considered and discussed. But...."submission"? I don't think so.

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McCarthy probably was a little strange but he was also 100% correct and that is a fact! Go do about 10 minutes of research.

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And there were, in fact, Trotskyites actively trying to subvert Stalin during the Ежовщина(Great Purge of 1936 - '39). Good thing Stalin wasn't afraid to take drastc measures.

[This message has been edited by ChrisAg05 (edited 2/20/2006 4:04p).]

McCarthy was right - There were communists in the government. There still are, mostly in the democrat party...

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Christianity teaches that we are to love our enemies.

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Therefore after much study and deliberation perhaps we
should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.
They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans.

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so how are you living out this teaching, if you're posting that we should suspect all muslims?

My guess is if the Pope says jump, half of South America will be in the air. Granted the church does not have complete control and local governments and customs take precedence, but the Catholic church is very powerful.

Making a blanket statement about Muslim's is as naive and silly as saying something about Jews or Christians.

We have to remember we are watching news reports that are showing angry mobs because it is newsworthy. I imagine most Muslim's are not happy with the cartoons but saying that all Muslims are violent is as idiotic as saying all Muslims are terrorists.

For all those out there making these comparison's have you actually known or been acquainted with a Muslim? I have and they are hard working people who are very respectful of all cultures and happy to talk about their own. Now many of these people came here for schooling and are pretty nice folk it is nice to meet people who can give you a non-christian world perspective. It makes me upset when we see nothing but negative perspective on any culture.

Now for those who wonder why I have such a negative perspective toward Christians that is because I have had to deal with so many "Bad Christians" who would make anyone uneasy.

Apetree what you stated is exactly why I will not spend a dime in any muslim owned business.
You just can't know where your dollars are going once they have it in they're hands. I for one don't want to help them any more than I have to. We are already being held hostage by the oil we buy.

JALALABAD, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Hundreds of Afghan students shouted support on Monday for Osama bin Laden and threatened to join al Qaeda during a protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad.



And this, after we freed their sorry country from the Taliban....

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McCarthy was right - There were communists in the government. There still are, mostly in the democrat party...

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texags73,

The saying "No good deed goes unpunished" was said for a reason.

opk:

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Bracy, my friend. He was expressing an opinion which must be taken in the context of the era in which he lived. To transpose that to today and say "that is the way all [insert] feel" is really a stretch. We can learn from the quotation and understand how strongly the rabbi felt, in this case, about authority, but it carries no weight today.

They are words to be considered and discussed. But...."submission"? I don't think so.

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What do the words "v’tzivanu" mean?

[This message has been edited by Bracy (edited 2/20/2006 10:41p).]

lets just round em all up and put em in camps. that initial email/post is so ignorant, its beyond belief.

No, a devout muslim cannot be a "good" American, a devout Christian can. The difference is the TRUE seperation of Church and State; the GOVERNMENT shall not impose a religion. Muslims must be committed to Islamic law and governance, this nullifies good citizenship.

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so how are you living out this teaching, if you're posting that we should suspect all muslims?

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Love and being suspect of a religious conviction of a person is not mutually exclusive.

If one is not suspect of a Muslim then you are an idiot. If one hates a Muslim and are a Christian you are in need of repentance of that sin.

A step further, some try to deem love incompatable with a soldier killing an enemy soldier as his duty. Not so.

[This message has been edited by AgGermany (edited 2/21/2006 8:19a).]

OACR, it's good to have a left wing bomb thrower like you on this board. You bring a bit of balance and humor to these discussions. You may not think you are humerous but trust me to most of us you are.