I wonder sometimes if it is really a lake of fire or wheather that is just a desciption of how it feels. I think that here on earth, even with the evil things we see and hear, their is good and we sense and know it is there. Because of this we still know their is hope and goodness still exists.

Hell will be complete separation from God. The eteral fire will be the burning we feel for comfort in the absence of anything that resembles love. Hope will be gone. Dispare will be the only thing we have to look forward to.There will be nothing to be optimistic about and no compasion. It will be a futile search for fullfillment but nothing will quench our thirst or satisfy our needs. We will know that love exists but it can never be had again.

Sadly what I descibed may be the best we could hope for.

Can one of the Bible verse masters give some examples of where hell is specifically mentioned in the Bible?

Where did the idea of it being hot come from?

In Norse mythology, hell was a place that was extremely cold.

The New Testament uses three different Greek words of hell.

tartarus
gehenna
hades

The second and most often used word for hell in the New Testament is gehenna, a word of hell already used by the Jews before the time of Christ.

The word is derived from the Hebrew "Valley of Hinnom" found in the Old Testament (Joshua 15:8; 2 Kings 23:10; Nehemiah 11:30).

In that valley outside Jerusalem the Jews gave human sacrifices to pagan deities. There too the garbage of the city was thrown, where it bred worms.

That explains why Christ referred to hell as the place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44, 46, 48)

The account of the rich man and Lazarus is found in Luke 16:19-31. That would be interesting to read for additional information.

Hell is tu winning the MNC.

Well, I think A&M is going to have a great year next year! Meanwhile, I'll enjoy hell for a year...!

Hell is an office full of Band Wagon Whorn fans going on about the MNC.

See, this is the proof that tu is evil. You're in hell and you're enjoying it!

Hey, Losman...you dont believe in Hell!

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You're in hell and you're enjoying it!

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I figger hell needs evangelizing, they need the love...!
That's why I sent 2 kids to UT, and only 1 to A&M....A&M needed less evangelizing..!

Ok, If Hell existed it would be like......what I said

But everything is relative....no?

Luke, chapter 3:17: His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into his granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."

my place of employment.....

Texags

Posted this dicussion oon the nature of hell on the Anti-Purgatory thread-

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This depiction of hell by Lewis is notable for how different it is from the biblical and traditional images of hell. Those images go like this:

* Hell is like being excluded from a party that you really wanted to go to and left outside in the darkness.
* Hell is like being burned alive.
* Hell is like being sentenced to torture by a king or judge.

These images have been developed in different ways by subsequent Catholic thought.

The first of them, in conjunction with other passages that talk about what heaven is like, has been understood as the mirror image of the Beatific Vision. Those who get into heaven get to be with and behold God (the Beatific Vision), being transformed to be like him. Those who go to hell are deprived of this vision, which is like being shut out of a party that you really, really wanted to go to bad. Theologians have called this the poena damni or "pain of loss."

The second two images (burning and torturing) correspond to what theologians have called the poena sensus or "pain of sense." The precise nature of the poena sensus has been disputed, with many theologians (especially in former days) holding that hell contained fire that was in some sense literal and somehow able to afflict the immaterial souls of the damned even before they reacquire their bodies at the Resurrection.

One thing that all of these images have in common is that they depict the punishments--both the poena damni and the poena sensus--as being inflicted on a person against his will by God, who is represented in parabolic form as a powerful person (a king, a judge, the rich head of a household) with the right to do these things.

Something else that they all have in common is that there is a tension between them and the idea that Deus caritas est. I mean, how do you square the idea that God is love with the idea that he's going to torture people forever against their will? Many of the sins we commit on earth don't seem to us to deserve eternal punishment, and many people have such an impoverished knowledge of God through no fault of their own that it seems really hard to imagine that it would be just to burn them alive for all eternity.

Corresponding to this, some have speculated that perhaps only a very tiny, tiny number of people go to hell, but then why are the biblical warnings against hell so strong?

Perhaps just to warn us against it in the strongest possible terms. But perhaps there is another possibility. After all, Jesus tells us that "many" go the road that leads to destruction, while "few" (adults, at least in his pre-Christian day) find the way to life. Maybe there's another explanation.

Some have said, "Y'know: Scripture is a set of Middle Eastern documents that often use vivid imagery to gesture at spiritual realities. These images don't necessarily correspond to the spiritual realities in a one-to-one manner. They contain elements that aren't literal, and they correspond to the spiritual realities in a more general way that operates on a deeper-than-the-surface-of-the-imagery level."

This has led a lot of folks to try and offer an account of hell that retains the underlying principles of the biblical images but that makes it easier to square hell with the idea of a God who is infinitely loving.

The fulcrum of this new interpretation consists in saying that the image of God imposing hell on people against their will is non-literal.

The Middle Eastern environment in which Scripture was written was one in which justice was dispensed by kings and judges who imposed harsh penalties on offenders at the drop of a hat (or turban, as the case may be). In that context, it was natural when thinking of the divine administration of justice, to picture God in a similar manner.

But on some level--these theologians would argue--isn't hell really a matter of our own choice? I mean, we chose to sin, right? God wouldn't be sending us to hell if we hadn't made that choice. So perhaps the images of God imposing punishments from without is really just part of the Middle Eastern framework in which these images were developed. The essential thing is that we have made a choice not to go to heaven, not to be with God--to reject him fundamentally.

Hell thus gets reconceptualized as just the natural outworking of our own choice. We have chosen not to be with God, and he lets us make that choice, though it is not a pleasant one for those who make it.

The poena damni, which everyone already regarded as the essential pain of hell, is thus further accentuated, and the poena sensus gets re-interpreted as the natural consequences of the choice to abandon God (perhaps as some kind of inner, psychic torment the damned impose on themselves)--as some in Church history have always interpreted it. (For example, some historically have interpreted the image of burning as being the torments of a guilty conscience, though this has not been the majority position.)

There is considerable room for speculation on hell and what it is like. The Church really hasn't determined much in this area. But it has in recent times emphasized hell as self-exclusion from heaven. The Catechism states: "To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'hell'" (CCC 1033).

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http://www.jimmyakin.org/2006/01/catholic_scifif.html

Yankee Stadium

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We have chosen not to be with God, and he lets us make that choice, though it is not a pleasant one for those who make it.

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He is being a bit presumptious here don't you think?

I, for one, do not tie my being "pleasant" with how I accept a particular faith based groupthink.

Maybe he is saying that those who choose to believe in the christian idea of monotheistic god as not having a "pleasant" experience.

Looks Napalm in the wee hours of the morning..

My idea of hell is having nothing to read but Texags R&P.

Eternal separation from God the Father. The Lake of Fire, specifically cited, doesn't hold a candle to that. Despair of a depth beyond any ability to sense or understand.

david

Let the bible explain itself...

Matt 13:42
the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
NASU

Matt 22:13
the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
NASU

Matt 5:29-30
If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown intohell . 30 " If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go intohell
NASU

Mark 9:43-48
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go intohell , into the unquenchable fire, 44[ where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] 45 "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast intohell , 46[ where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] 47 " If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast intohell , 48 where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
NASU

Jude 7
the punishment of eternal fire .
NASU

Matt 25:46
These will go away intoeternal punishment
NASU

2 Thess 1:9
These will pay the penalty ofeternal destruction
NASU

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Eternal separation from God the Father. The Lake of Fire, specifically cited, doesn't hold a candle to that. Despair of a depth beyond any ability to sense or understand.

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Isn't a life of "eternal separation from God" still a "life?" I mean... If a person is conscious and aware of his separation, wouldn't this indicate that he is still alive?

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Mark 9:44: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

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What is "their worm?"

I guess I didn't say that right. I believe it is conscious life.
d.

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I guess I didn't say that right. I believe it is conscious life.

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That's what confuses me. Doesn't "death" mean "not living?"

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Deuteronomy 30:19: I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

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Revelation 2:11: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

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Revelation 20:6: Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

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If it was "death", as in absence of sentient life, it would make no difference if there were fire or chocolate sundaes. The Scripture also alludes to "Spiritual death", or separation from God the Father, as it is He who gives us eternal Spiritual life, as well as allows eternal Spirutual death, of which I believe leads to the separation fom God....as well as the eternal sauna sans agua.

The parable about the rich man and Lazarus(?) and the rich man (Luke) comes to mind, where the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to him (the rich man was in Hell) with water to touch his lips to give him some relief from the flame. That is not the point of the parable, but the illustration is made nevertheless. It does, however, allude to the nature of Hell.

I realize that's fairly terse, but that is what I am thinking on the matter.

The Revelation verses seem to say this to me also, in a different manner. "Second death" pops out brightly.....

david

[This message has been edited by Orphan (edited 2/12/2006 9:24a).]

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Eternal separation from God the Father.

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I agree with Orphan. Nothing could be worse than that.

Orphan:

I dont' mean to sound like I'm arguing, because I really don't know one way or the other. I'm asking questions because I don't know the answer to them.

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If it was "death", as in absence of sentient life, it would make no difference if there were fire or chocolate sundaes

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Does it make a difference if its fire or chocolate sundaes? I mean... what does it take to kill a spirit?

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The parable about the rich man and Lazarus(?) and the rich man (Luke) comes to mind, where the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to him (the rich man was in Hell) with water to touch his lips to give him some relief from the flame. That is not the point of the parable, but the illustration is made nevertheless. It does, however, allude to the nature of Hell.

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But the story of Lazarus is still before the "second death." If the "second death" is yet future, then where does an evil person go after his physical death, but before the "second death?"

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Does it make a difference if its fire or chocolate sundaes? I mean... what does it take to kill a spirit?

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That, I don't know.

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But the story of Lazarus is still before the "second death." If the "second death" is yet future, then where does an evil person go after his physical death, but before the "second death?"

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I think your question points out on of the problems with "time", and in this case, the sequence of events in time as we understand it.

david

Conversation with the Devil
by Ray Wylie Hubbard

I had a dream last night I was cast into hell by a jealous God
The Devil walked up and said you don’t need no lightning rod
It hardly ever rains down here I can’t recall the last storm
Ain’t gonna need that leather jacket it gets kinda warm
There’s one way in there’s no way out looks like you’re here to stay
Aww the place is a mess it’s overcrowded more are comin’ everyday

I said aww man wait a minute there’s got to be something wrong
I ain’t a bad guy I just write these little songs
I always pay my union dues I don’t stay in the passing lane
He said what about all that whiskey and the cocaine
I said well yeah but that’s no reason to throw me in hell
Cause I didn’t use the cocaine to get high I just liked the way it smelled

He said come over here son, let me show you around
Over there’s where we keep the preachers, I never liked those clowns
They're always blaming me for everything wrong under the sun
It ain’t that harder to do what’s right it’s just maybe not as much fun
Then they walk around thinking they’re better than me and you
Then they get caught in a motel room doing what they said not to do

Now the murderers and the rapists, they go in this fiery lake
Along with most of the politicians and the cops on the take
And all the mothers who wait til they get to Kmart to spank their kids
Instead of showing them what to do what’s right they just hit em for what they did
And all the fathers who go and abandon their daughters and sons
Oh anybody who hurts a child is gonna burn until they're done

I said everybody’s down here who’s up in heaven with God and the Son
Oh some saints and mystics and students of metaphysics 101
People who care and share and love and try to do what’s right
Beautiful old soles who read little stories to their babies every night
What you won’t find up in heaven are Christian coalition right wing conservatives
Country program directors and Nashville record executives

Now I said I've made some mistakes but I'm not as bad as those guys
How can God do this to me oh can't you sympathize
He said you're wrong about God being cruel and mean
Oh God it the most loving thing that's never been seen
I said hotshot tell me this which religion is the truest
He said they're all about the same Buddha was not a Christian but Jesus would've made a good Buddhist

Well I thought about my future I didn’t seem to have much of one
I looked around to leave but there was no place to run
I said I don't suppose I could go back and try living again
You know like reincarnation I hear that's the way it's always been
I can't answer that he said you're gonna have to wait for that response
But it's not anymore unusual to be born twice than it is to be born once

Well it looked like I was stuck there as far as I could tell
I figured I might as well suck up, you know what the hell
I said you know that song Charlie Daniels did
About how you went down to Georgia and played fiddle against that kid
He said yeah broke my heart but you know what are you gonna do
I said to tell the truth I thought your solo was the better of the two

Then I woke up and I was lyin in my bed
I ran down the hall and I kissed my little boy on his sleepin’ head
I took this dream as a sign from God so I figured I’d better pray
I said don’t ever speak to me directly thanks anyway
Now so much has changed about me now aside from me just giving up red meat
Some get spiritual cause they see the light and some cause they feel the heat.


[This message has been edited by F W ag 01 (edited 2/13/2006 5:52p).]

This is my idea of Hell.

I bet my version of hell would be frightfully close to texag73's version of heaven.