Interesting when a Baal and Molech supporter of child sacrifice decides to "read" some words masquerading as a prayer. This man is talking to himself, not God.
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Jonathan Jackson's "prayer" at the National Prayer Breakfast
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Angry Jonathan Zaludek
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Interesting when a Baal and Molech supporter of child sacrifice decides to "read" some words masquerading as a prayer. This man is talking to himself, not God.
Angry Jonathan Zaludek said:
Interesting when a Baal and Molech supporter of child sacrifice decides to "read" some words masquerading as a prayer. This man is talking to himself, not God.
Please tell me you are trolling
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Angry Jonathan Zaludek
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Not trolling.
Angry Jonathan Zaludek
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Angry Jonathan Zaludek said:
Interesting when a Baal and Molech supporter of child sacrifice decides to "read" some words masquerading as a prayer. This man is talking to himself, not God.
Yes, Donald Trump, on the other hand, there's a good Christian.
Angry Jonathan Zaludek
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Sapper Redux said:Angry Jonathan Zaludek said:
Interesting when a Baal and Molech supporter of child sacrifice decides to "read" some words masquerading as a prayer. This man is talking to himself, not God.
Yes, Donald Trump, on the other hand, there's a good Christian.
Trump is not a Christian. He would be wise though to surround himself with godly counsel.
Angry Jonathan Zaludek said:Sapper Redux said:Angry Jonathan Zaludek said:
Interesting when a Baal and Molech supporter of child sacrifice decides to "read" some words masquerading as a prayer. This man is talking to himself, not God.
Yes, Donald Trump, on the other hand, there's a good Christian.
Trump is not a Christian. He would be wise though to surround himself with godly counsel.
How do you know he is not a Christian?
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Derm, to you it shouldn't matter or not who is Christian or who isn't. They all get to the same place anyways
TeddyAg0422 said:
Derm, to you it shouldn't matter or not who is Christian or who isn't. They all get to the same place anyways
Did you know Eastern Orthodox believe all people go to the same place. All are in the presence of God. To those who know and love God it is bliss. To those who don't it is agony.
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Yes, good for them. I'm not Orthodox. You knew the distinction I was making. Well played
TeddyAg0422 said:
Yes, good for them. I'm not Orthodox. You knew the distinction I was making. Well played
What does Scripture actually say about what eternal life as a Christian will be like? Where does it say heaven is? Or what happens as believers when we die?
It is certainly not what I was taught in Sunday school.
NT Wright who is an Anglican, is a great source for this in my opinion. And he is not a Christian universalist so no concern.
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TeddyAg0422 said:
Derm, to you it shouldn't matter or not who is Christian or who isn't. They all get to the same place anyways
Well played
TeddyAg0422 said:
Derm, to you it shouldn't matter or not who is Christian or who isn't. They all get to the same place anyways
And I believe eventually they do. Do you want people to suffer eternally?
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I'm confused what your point is or what you're trying to have me argue in support of? In the nuanced traditions, we can pull from sources outside the Bible, so if you want me to bring up something in support of Heaven and Hell being separate, I guess I could say the Apostles' Creed seems to treat them as different places. This creed was compiled early Church figures and derived from scriptural texts.
Ephesians 4:9-10 seems to very obviously make a distinction and separation between the two. As does Romans 10:6-7
Ephesians 4:9-10 seems to very obviously make a distinction and separation between the two. As does Romans 10:6-7
No, of course I don't want them to suffer eternally. I would love for absolutely everyone to be saved. I hope everyone is saved. But I don't make the rules. Just because I don't fully understand something and it doesn't align with my emotions means I get to find a work around and find something pleasing to me. I have to battle things out and try to make sense of what people far smarter than me have historically agreed upon. I know you'll pull out St. Gregory of Nyssa here, but he is not infallible. The Church as a whole teaches that Hell is a state of eternal punishment and existence. I may not want that to be the case, but I'm not my own pope and don't desire to pander to my emotions to try and reconcile what my own personal, and infallible, view of God may be.
TeddyAg0422 said:
No, of course I don't want them to suffer eternally. I would love for absolutely everyone to be saved. I hope everyone is saved. But I don't make the rules. Just because I don't fully understand something and it doesn't align with my emotions means I get to find a work around and find something pleasing to me. I have to battle things out and try to make sense of what people far smarter than me have historically agreed upon. I know you'll pull out St. Gregory of Nyssa here, but he is not infallible. The Church as a whole teaches that Hell is a state of eternal punishment and existence. I may not want that to be the case, but I'm not my own pope and don't desire to pander to my emotions to try and reconcile what my own personal, and infallible, view of God may be.
If you are Catholic, I believe it is taught that hell is a separation from God chosen via free will. Not God actively punishing people He created.
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Yes, that is absolutely correct. It is a free will choice made by someone. God does not intentionally send somebody to hell. I didn't say otherwise.
We are in agreement God doesn't ordain to hell
We are in agreement God doesn't ordain to hell
Guys, I love you all, but we already have a hell thread.
Silent For Too Long said:
Guys, I love you all, but we already have a hell thread.
Well, some of our posters seem to be enthralled with a lot of people ending up there. It is a recurring theme. Now and through history. Us vs them.
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dermdoc said:Silent For Too Long said:
Guys, I love you all, but we already have a hell thread.
Well, some of our posters seem to be enthralled with a lot of people ending up there. It is a recurring theme. Now and through history. Us vs them.
No, they are mostly enthralled and amazed at your total rejection of Jesus' teachings on eternal consequences while simultaneously saying you are a Christian. If anything is clear from the teachings of Jesus, it's that there are eternal consequences for rejecting God, and not everyone goes to heaven to be with God eternally. You believe that everyone ends up in heaven because it's what you want to be true, not because there's any legitimate scriptural support for it. There isn't.
AozorAg said:dermdoc said:Silent For Too Long said:
Guys, I love you all, but we already have a hell thread.
Well, some of our posters seem to be enthralled with a lot of people ending up there. It is a recurring theme. Now and through history. Us vs them.
No, they are mostly enthralled and amazed at your total rejection of Jesus' teachings on eternal consequences while simultaneously saying you are a Christian. If anything is clear from the teachings of Jesus, it's that there are eternal consequences for rejecting God, and not everyone goes to heaven to be with God eternally. You believe that everyone ends up in heaven because it's what you want to be true, not because there's any legitimate scriptural support for it. There isn't.
No I depend on Scripture. Does Scripture say God desires all to be saved?
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dermdoc said:AozorAg said:dermdoc said:Silent For Too Long said:
Guys, I love you all, but we already have a hell thread.
Well, some of our posters seem to be enthralled with a lot of people ending up there. It is a recurring theme. Now and through history. Us vs them.
No, they are mostly enthralled and amazed at your total rejection of Jesus' teachings on eternal consequences while simultaneously saying you are a Christian. If anything is clear from the teachings of Jesus, it's that there are eternal consequences for rejecting God, and not everyone goes to heaven to be with God eternally. You believe that everyone ends up in heaven because it's what you want to be true, not because there's any legitimate scriptural support for it. There isn't.
No I depend on Scripture. Does Scripture say God desires all to be saved?
That's an irrelevant question. The relevant question is, does Scripture say all will, in fact, be saved? No, it says just the opposite. Repeatedly and explicitly.
God desires that murders, rapes, and assaults not be committed, and yet they happen anyway because God allows people free will. Passages saying God desires all to be saved are irrelevant to the question of whether or not all will, in fact, be saved. You know that full well, but as you demonstrated in the hell thread, you're not at all interested in the truth when it comes to this particular subject. You're only interested in what makes you feel good. Best of luck.
AozorAg said:dermdoc said:AozorAg said:dermdoc said:Silent For Too Long said:
Guys, I love you all, but we already have a hell thread.
Well, some of our posters seem to be enthralled with a lot of people ending up there. It is a recurring theme. Now and through history. Us vs them.
No, they are mostly enthralled and amazed at your total rejection of Jesus' teachings on eternal consequences while simultaneously saying you are a Christian. If anything is clear from the teachings of Jesus, it's that there are eternal consequences for rejecting God, and not everyone goes to heaven to be with God eternally. You believe that everyone ends up in heaven because it's what you want to be true, not because there's any legitimate scriptural support for it. There isn't.
No I depend on Scripture. Does Scripture say God desires all to be saved?
That's an irrelevant question. The relevant question is, does Scripture say all will, in fact, be saved? No, it says just the opposite. Repeatedly and explicitly.
God desires that murders, rapes, and assaults not be committed, and yet they happen anyway because God allows people free will. Passages saying God desires all to be saved are irrelevant to the question of whether or not all will, in fact, be saved. You know that full well, but as you demonstrated in the hell thread, you're not at all interested in the truth when it comes to this particular subject. You're only interested in what makes you feel good. Best of luck.
I do not want eternal conscious torment for anyone. Even Hitler. We disagree.
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Once again, literally not a single person here is claiming they want people to go to hell
TeddyAg0422 said:
Once again, literally not a single person here is claiming they want people to go to hell
Maybe not. But they are claiming Trump is not a Christian.
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TeddyAg0422 said:
Once again, literally not a single person here is claiming they want people to go to hell
Really? Because it seems like something a lot of people on this forum are looking forward to.
Sapper Redux said:TeddyAg0422 said:
Once again, literally not a single person here is claiming they want people to go to hell
Really? Because it seems like something a lot of people on this forum are looking forward to.
Link us to those posts. I'm curious to see what they say.
dermdoc said:TeddyAg0422 said:
Derm, to you it shouldn't matter or not who is Christian or who isn't. They all get to the same place anyways
Did you know Eastern Orthodox believe all people go to the same place. All are in the presence of God. To those who know and love God it is bliss. To those who don't it is agony.
Yes. Hell is not a physical place, but is a state of being. It is our response to being in the presence of God.
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