Pope Leo XIV signaling to Orthobros

2,600 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by 747Ag
Severian the Torturer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:33p, 11/25/25
In his newest "In Unitate Fidei" Pope Leo XIV publishes the entire creed of 381 sans Filioque and asks to leave behind "theological controversies that have lost their raison d'etre"

He also refers to Christ as "the reflection (apaugasma) of God's glory" and "the character of his being (hypostasis)" which is much more eastern take on Christ's nature, especially as concerns the generation of the Holy Spirit being solely in God through Christ.

Pope Leo XIV is also careful to note a desire for reunion with both believing "churches and ecclesial communities" which is Shorthand for the Orthodox and Protestants; reminiscent of Pope Benedict XVI's Dominus Iesus (which head of the CDF Cdl Ratzinger) who notes the Orthodox, while separate, are a very real church with valid apostolic succession, whereas Protestants are ecclesial communities.

Let's see what Turkey holds in store. Happy 1700th anniversary of Nicea apostolic church!

https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/apost_letters/documents/20251123-in-unitate-fidei.html
Reply Quote
10
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Severian the Torturer • 2:25p, 11/25/25
AG
Severian the Torturer said:
Pope Leo XIV is also careful to note a desire for reunion with both believing "churches and ecclesial communities" which is Shorthand for the Orthodox and Protestants

How does that work? My takeaways recently from this board is that this is not possible.
Reply Quote
Severian the Torturer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 2:27p, 11/25/25
10andBOUNCE said:
Severian the Torturer said:
Pope Leo XIV is also careful to note a desire for reunion with both believing "churches and ecclesial communities" which is Shorthand for the Orthodox and Protestants

How does that work? My takeaways recently from this board is that this is not possible.


Really? We have tons of former Protestants.
Reply Quote
4
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Severian the Torturer • 2:55p, 11/25/25
AG
Right back at ya!
One of our 3 elders is a former Catholic.
Reply Quote
Severian the Torturer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 2:57p, 11/25/25
10andBOUNCE said:
Right back at ya!
One of our 3 elders is a former Catholic.


Oh you know Bill? He's in deep cover coercing your entire congregation to swim the Tiber.
Reply Quote
5
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 2:58p, 11/25/25
AG
10andBOUNCE said:
Right back at ya!
One of our 3 elders is a former Catholic.

Strange. I thought elders were chosen because of their wisdom.
Reply Quote
7
1 edit
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to FTACo88-FDT24dad • 3:59p, 11/25/25
AG
Not aware of "wisdom" being mentioned in 1 Timothy.
Reply Quote
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 7:38p, 11/25/25
AG
10andBOUNCE said:
Not aware of "wisdom" being mentioned in 1 Timothy.


The same 1 Timothy where Paul tells us the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth?
Reply Quote
5
fc2112
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 4:54a, 11/27/25
10andBOUNCE said:
Right back at ya!
One of our 3 elders is a former Catholic.

I don't know what an elder is. Is that an attempt to create authority in a church that was founded in rebellion against authority?
Reply Quote
9
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to fc2112 • 9:14a, 11/27/25
AG
Man can't create something that God already created
Reply Quote
2
AgLiving06
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 7:51p, 11/27/25
10andBOUNCE said:
Severian the Torturer said:
Pope Leo XIV is also careful to note a desire for reunion with both believing "churches and ecclesial communities" which is Shorthand for the Orthodox and Protestants

How does that work? My takeaways recently from this board is that this is not possible.


Only way possible for any sort of reconciliation is for Rome to either

1. Renounce the errors surrounding the role of the pope

2. Or more likely to come to a new conclusion that one does not need to follow the pope to be part of the Christian Church...or the actual historical view of the church.
Reply Quote
3
PabloSerna
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to AgLiving06 • 7:50a, 11/28/25
AG
I'm sure the focus is going to be on what we have in common. No way either church reverses course in my opinion. Just enjoy the moment.
Reply Quote
Maximus of Tejas
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Severian the Torturer • 7:11a, 11/29/25
Apostolic succession is meaningless without the right practice which is one reason St. Justin Popovic called Papism the oldest Protestantism. Having a direct lineage is great and necessary but it's just one part of the faith.
Reply Quote
4
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:07a, 12/1/25
AG
A little ecumenical exhibition:

Reply Quote
2
The Banned
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Maximus of Tejas • 1:03p, 12/1/25
Maximus of Tejas said:
Apostolic succession is meaningless without the right practice which is one reason St. Justin Popovic called Papism the oldest Protestantism. Having a direct lineage is great and necessary but it's just one part of the faith.

Interesting. "Papism" (if we want to call it that) is agreed upon and taught by the bishops of the Catholic Church. You and I would likely agree we are called to be in obedience to our bishop, and even moreso when the bishops of the Church are in agreement on an theological issue. So we are "protesting" the Church by following the unanimous teachings of our bishops? This would essentially mean that when the East and West split, the faithful in the West were supposed to protest all of their bishops in order to not protest the faith. Surely you see the logical fallacy in that.

Call "papism" a heresy or whatever you'd like, but calling it the original Protestantism is literary nonsense. Your saint may have been an intelligent man, but that quote is not a good example.
Reply Quote
2
Severian the Torturer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Maximus of Tejas • 1:58p, 12/1/25
Maximus of Tejas said:
Apostolic succession is meaningless without the right practice which is one reason St. Justin Popovic called Papism the oldest Protestantism. Having a direct lineage is great and necessary but it's just one part of the faith.

I'm pretty sure Popovic coached the Spurs and not the Saints.
Reply Quote
4
Maximus of Tejas
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to The Banned • 8:27a, 12/4/25
The Banned said:
Maximus of Tejas said:
Apostolic succession is meaningless without the right practice which is one reason St. Justin Popovic called Papism the oldest Protestantism. Having a direct lineage is great and necessary but it's just one part of the faith.

Interesting. "Papism" (if we want to call it that) is agreed upon and taught by the bishops of the Catholic Church. You and I would likely agree we are called to be in obedience to our bishop, and even moreso when the bishops of the Church are in agreement on an theological issue. So we are "protesting" the Church by following the unanimous teachings of our bishops? This would essentially mean that when the East and West split, the faithful in the West were supposed to protest all of their bishops in order to not protest the faith. Surely you see the logical fallacy in that.

Call "papism" a heresy or whatever you'd like, but calling it the original Protestantism is literary nonsense. Your saint may have been an intelligent man, but that quote is not a good example.
Protestant in the sense of giving normative authority to a human individual regardless if it's the Pope or Pastor Billy. His book on the topic centers on the humanism of those movements compared to the theanthropic nature of the historic Church.
Reply Quote
1
The Banned
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Maximus of Tejas • 8:45a, 12/4/25
Maximus of Tejas said:
The Banned said:
Maximus of Tejas said:
Apostolic succession is meaningless without the right practice which is one reason St. Justin Popovic called Papism the oldest Protestantism. Having a direct lineage is great and necessary but it's just one part of the faith.

Interesting. "Papism" (if we want to call it that) is agreed upon and taught by the bishops of the Catholic Church. You and I would likely agree we are called to be in obedience to our bishop, and even moreso when the bishops of the Church are in agreement on an theological issue. So we are "protesting" the Church by following the unanimous teachings of our bishops? This would essentially mean that when the East and West split, the faithful in the West were supposed to protest all of their bishops in order to not protest the faith. Surely you see the logical fallacy in that.

Call "papism" a heresy or whatever you'd like, but calling it the original Protestantism is literary nonsense. Your saint may have been an intelligent man, but that quote is not a good example.

Protestant in the sense of giving normative authority to a human individual regardless if it's the Pope or Pastor Billy. His book on the topic centers on the humanism of those movements compared to the theanthropic nature of the historic Church.

Then call it the original humanism or something. Protestantism is coined such because it protested authority outside of the bible itself. It actually refuses to acknowledge there is a true normative authority outside of the bible, as all other authorities are fallible. "papism" and Protestantism are polar opposites. It's probably why it's easy to find dozens of Orthodox theologians, priests, metopolitans, etc. that disagreed with Popovic.
Reply Quote
1
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to The Banned • 9:10a, 12/4/25
AG
As a protestant I am completely fine with authority within the Church as what Scripture outlines (Elders, Deacons, Discipline, etc.) in addition to our need to honor secular authority (1 Peter). Protestants were protesting the made up office of Pope and other things the was of "human tradition."

Weird that the Bible was clear on Elders and Deacons but for some reason when mysterious (or at best very convoluted) when it came to the papacy.
Reply Quote
1
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:13a, 12/4/25
AG
10andBOUNCE said:
As a protestant I am completely fine with authority within the Church as what Scripture outlines (Elders, Deacons, Discipline, etc.) in addition to our need to honor secular authority (1 Peter). Protestants were protesting the made up office of Pope and other things the was of "human tradition."

Weird that the Bible was clear on Elders and Deacons but for some reason when mysterious (or at best very convoluted) when it came to the papacy.


And if the Bible was intended as a rule book for Christian ecclesial governance and praxis then that would be relevant. Thankfully that's not true.
Reply Quote
6
The Banned
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:19a, 12/4/25
10andBOUNCE said:
As a protestant I am completely fine with authority within the Church as what Scripture outlines (Elders, Deacons, Discipline, etc.) in addition to our need to honor secular authority (1 Peter). Protestants were protesting the made up office of Pope and other things the was of "human tradition."

Weird that the Bible was clear on Elders and Deacons but for some reason when mysterious (or at best very convoluted) when it came to the papacy.

Authority from an administrative level, sure. But I'm pretty sure you'd say none of them can teach infallibly, correct? Even when they're unanimous in their teaching on a particular interpretation, they could be wrong, yes? And if they do teach incorrectly, then the natural thing to do is break from those authority figures and establish your own church, as we've seen thousands of times since the reformation. So how much authority do they really have? Whatever authority the congregants are willing to agree to.

Apparently the bible isn't even clear on elders and deacons, as those roles look different depending upon your protestant denomination. Whether they are ordained deacons ala Anglicans and Lutherans, a lay office like many denomination, or flat out nonexistent. It's a pretty wide range.
Reply Quote
1 edit
Captain Pablo
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:22a, 12/4/25
AG
Why does anyone care about "reunification"

The Western is not going to give up the papacy to appease the eastern church

And the eastern is not going to submit to the papacy

Any reconciliation in the Filioquay would simple be the western conceding to the eastern because the eastern ain't budging

Reunification talk seems a waste of time to me. If anything, the churches are further apart now then they were 1000 years ago. And Vatican II kicked it into warp speed.

There may be some sort of acknowledgement of common ground, but full reunification ain't happening
Reply Quote
2
1 edit
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to The Banned • 9:26a, 12/4/25
AG
I don't really disagree. The disease that is Christian Liberty has made Christians think they can really do whatever they want to do, in this context how a Church is structured.

I do think there are some freedoms we can lawfully take that is within the bounds of Scripture and the intent.

I also do not completely reject human tradition in this way so that it can help inform some of the gray area. But once it goes outside of the bounds of Scripture, it's over.
Reply Quote
Maximus of Tejas
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:26a, 12/4/25
10andBOUNCE said:
As a protestant I am completely fine with authority within the Church as what Scripture outlines (Elders, Deacons, Discipline, etc.) in addition to our need to honor secular authority (1 Peter). Protestants were protesting the made up office of Pope and other things the was of "human tradition."

Weird that the Bible was clear on Elders and Deacons but for some reason when mysterious (or at best very convoluted) when it came to the papacy.
If there's one phrase I'm tired of hearing it's "the Bible is clear" lol. Ya I guess that's why the reformers all disagreed with each other pretty much immediately. Luther and Zwingli disagreeing on the Eucharist is pretty much all you need to know for the entire history of Protestantism.
Reply Quote
8
1 edit
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to The Banned • 9:28a, 12/4/25
AG
The Banned said:
10andBOUNCE said:
As a protestant I am completely fine with authority within the Church as what Scripture outlines (Elders, Deacons, Discipline, etc.) in addition to our need to honor secular authority (1 Peter). Protestants were protesting the made up office of Pope and other things the was of "human tradition."

Weird that the Bible was clear on Elders and Deacons but for some reason when mysterious (or at best very convoluted) when it came to the papacy.

Authority from an administrative level, sure. But I'm pretty sure you'd say none of them can teach infallibly, correct? Even when they're unanimous in their teaching on a particular interpretation, they could be wrong, yes? And if they do teach incorrectly, then the natural thing to do is break from those authority figures and establish your own church, as we've seen thousands of times since the reformation. So how much authority do they really have? Whatever authority the congregants are willing to agree to.

Apparently the bible isn't even clear on elders and deacons, as those roles look different depending upon your protestant denomination. Whether they are ordained deacons ala Anglicans and Lutherans, a lay office like many denomination, or flat out nonexistent. It's a pretty wide range.


I'm still looking for the verse in the New Testament where Jesus said he was going to build his church, his ecclesia, upon the rock of Martin Luther, John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli and that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against them and that Jesus, the last Davidic king, gives them the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose in the same way Eliakim was given the key of the first Davidic king and the power to open and shut when the king was away.
Reply Quote
3
Maximus of Tejas
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:31a, 12/4/25
10andBOUNCE said:
I don't really disagree. The disease that is Christian Liberty has made Christians think they can really do whatever they want to do, in this context how a Church is structured.

I do think there are some freedoms we can lawfully take that is within the bounds of Scripture and the intent.

I also do not completely reject human tradition in this way so that it can help inform some of the gray area. But once it goes outside of the bounds of Scripture, it's over.
Those liberties make up the western individual which in turn make up your religion. Charlie Kirk actually interviewed an amazing Orthodox priest/historian, Fr Strickland, who covers this topic. You really can't understand your religion or self until you understand the presuppositions that make up the western man. Reading the Bible won't get you there since you will just be using your foundational beliefs as a lens while you read Holy Scripture.
Reply Quote
2
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to FTACo88-FDT24dad • 9:31a, 12/4/25
AG
Our church is most definitely not built upon Martin Luther.
Reply Quote
The Banned
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:32a, 12/4/25
10andBOUNCE said:
I don't really disagree. The disease that is Christian Liberty has made Christians think they can really do whatever they want to do, in this context how a Church is structured.

I do think there are some freedoms we can lawfully take that is within the bounds of Scripture and the intent.

I also do not completely reject human tradition in this way so that it can help inform some of the gray area. But once it goes outside of the bounds of Scripture, it's over.

So again, protestants would reject authority outside of the bible itself. That's why calling "papism" the first Protestantism is nonsense
Reply Quote
3
Maximus of Tejas
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:34a, 12/4/25
10andBOUNCE said:
Our church is most definitely not built upon Martin Luther.
Your church is built on whatever dude or chick started and the year it was built.
Reply Quote
5
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 10andBOUNCE • 9:35a, 12/4/25
AG
10andBOUNCE said:
Our church is most definitely not built upon Martin Luther.


I agree. It's built upon a subjective determination that Martin Luther's theological novums of sola fide and sola scriptura are true.
Reply Quote
4
10andBOUNCE
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Maximus of Tejas • 9:36a, 12/4/25
AG
Definitely would not be a chick
Reply Quote
The Banned
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Captain Pablo • 9:37a, 12/4/25
Captain Pablo said:
Why does anyone care about "reunification"

The Western is not going to give up the papacy to appease the eastern church

And the eastern is not going to submit to the papacy

Any reconciliation in the Filioquay would simple be the western conceding to the eastern because the eastern ain't budging

Reunification talk seems a waste of time to me. If anything, the churches are further apart now then they were 1000 years ago. And Vatican II kicked it into warp speed.

There may be some sort of acknowledgement of commen ground, but full reunification ain't happening

Christ Himself prayed that believers will all be one. It would be going against Jesus's desires to not at least try.
Reply Quote
3
FTACo88-FDT24dad
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:25p, 12/4/25
AG
This recent discovery is interesting in light of this discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/live/2SYFPf7ai4U?si=bdlhIxZt13BHrahE
Reply Quote
Captain Pablo
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to The Banned • 8:02a, 12/5/25
AG
The Banned said:
Captain Pablo said:
Why does anyone care about "reunification"

The Western is not going to give up the papacy to appease the eastern church

And the eastern is not going to submit to the papacy

Any reconciliation in the Filioquay would simple be the western conceding to the eastern because the eastern ain't budging

Reunification talk seems a waste of time to me. If anything, the churches are further apart now then they were 1000 years ago. And Vatican II kicked it into warp speed.

There may be some sort of acknowledgement of commen ground, but full reunification ain't happening

Christ Himself prayed that believers will all be one. It would be going against Jesus's desires to not at least try.


I get that, but this would really, really be a truly futile effort.

The east ain't budging. And while the western church has made gestures over the years, decades, maybe even centuries, there's certain things they're not going to compromise on

I commend the Pope for trying.
Reply Quote
3 edits
Severian the Torturer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Captain Pablo • 8:19a, 12/5/25
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
Page 1 of 2 ▼
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.