The Book of Enoch Banned from The Bible Reveals Shocking Secrets Of Our History

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Leonard H. Stringfield
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4:18p, 5/8/24
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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PabloSerna
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11:00p, 5/9/24
AG
"Banned book"

I guess that it was deemed not inspired by God doesn't sound as good?
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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In reply to PabloSerna • 12:00a, 5/10/24
PabloSerna said:
"Banned book"

I guess that it was deemed not inspired by God doesn't sound as good?
Who made that call and why?
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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AgLiving06
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 8:07a, 5/10/24
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
PabloSerna said:
"Banned book"

I guess that it was deemed not inspired by God doesn't sound as good?
Who made that call and why?
The easiest answer is God made the call. Why? Because it wasn't a book divinely inspired by Him.

The second is that it was never considered part of the canon of the OT. We have good historical record of what books the Jews kept in their canon and it was not there.
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AggieChemist
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 8:34a, 5/10/24
AG
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
PabloSerna said:
"Banned book"

I guess that it was deemed not inspired by God doesn't sound as good?
Who made that call and why?
People. People made that call. People have made all the calls. From the beginning of time.

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codker92
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 12:16p, 5/10/24
AG
AgLiving06 said:
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
PabloSerna said:
"Banned book"

I guess that it was deemed not inspired by God doesn't sound as good?
Who made that call and why?
The easiest answer is God made the call. Why? Because it wasn't a book divinely inspired by Him.

The second is that it was never considered part of the canon of the OT. We have good historical record of what books the Jews kept in their canon and it was not there.


His revealed that Enoch is scripture through Ethiopian Orthodox church.
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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1:47p, 5/10/24
What are the criteria for "divinely inspired'? Who, what delivered that memo? Who allowed them to be written in the first place?
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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PabloSerna
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 1:57p, 5/10/24
AG
You want us to say "ET" don't you?

Sorry to disappoint and again point out the fact that God (not ET) works through his creation. God (not ET) has written his law upon the hearts of man. So when Jesus (son of God, not ET) came into this world, he came to bear witness to the truth and establish a church that began with 12 men and numerous disciples (other men, women, and children).

When Jesus (son of God, not ET) died, resurrected, and ascended into heaven- he promised to send God's spirit (not ET) to guide the church until the end of time. It is this spirit (not ET) that has guided the church to determine which books of many were to be included in a canon of scripture (Bible). This canon has been the same since then. HTH
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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In reply to PabloSerna • 2:07p, 5/10/24
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?

Sorry to disappoint and again point out the fact that God (not ET) works through his creation. God (not ET) has written his law upon the hearts of man. So when Jesus (son of God, not ET) came into this world, he came to bear witness to the truth and establish a church that began with 12 men and numerous disciples (other men, women, and children).

When Jesus (son of God, not ET) died, resurrected, and ascended into heaven- he promised to send God's spirit (not ET) to guide the church until the end of time. It is this spirit (not ET) that has guided the church to determine which books of many were to be included in a canon of scripture (Bible). This canon has been the same since then. HTH
Not really. I say that enough. And for good reason. Just curious how other Christians are approaching the reality and the potential implications.
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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747Ag
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In reply to PabloSerna • 2:53p, 5/10/24
AG
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 3:05p, 5/10/24
AG
Enoch is firmly in the category of 'books to read at home' within the Orthodox accounting of biblical literature. There are things that of value in there: Description of angels, expansion of genesis, visions of heaven with the four caves, a 365 day calendar that doesn't like leap years. And some things that aren't good, like Enoch being foist as Moses-like figure.

Its a book that has been compiled over centuries. It was of a ton of importance to certain jewish sects (like the dead sea scrolls). Within the telling of the story of man and God, its kind of a side quest. So side quest is its treatment.

Scriptural authority comes out of the people who practice, keep, and preserve the rituals described within the texts. Some groups deemed it extremely authoritative, some didn't. The current continuum of literature about God and man wouldn't say to not read Enoch, but that it doesn't rise to the level of being read in church.
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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In reply to 747Ag • 3:26p, 5/10/24
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.
We shall.

Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter:
1st Director of the CIA (1947-1950)
"It is time for the truth to be brought out....Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officials are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense....I urge immediate Congressional action to reduce the dangers from secrecy about Unidentified Flying Objects."
Hillenkoetter, Roscoe; "Aliens from Space", Major Donald E. Keyhoe, 1975

(Please note the "dangers" that Hillenkoetter talks about are from SECRECY not from the UFOs.
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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Zobel
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 3:29p, 5/10/24
AG
Yeah canon is not some declared thing. Its objective - canonical writings for any given community are the writings that function as canonical within that community. The canon has been different in different Jewish communities and different later Christian communities over time. There were variances in canon between small-o orthodox Christian groups over time.

The writings a community uses as canonical are also ways for other communities to recognize them as small-o orthodox or heretical/heterodox sects.
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jkag89
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 5:37p, 5/10/24
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.
We shall.

Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter:
1st Director of the CIA (1947-1950)
"It is time for the truth to be brought out....Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officials are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense....I urge immediate Congressional action to reduce the dangers from secrecy about Unidentified Flying Objects."
Hillenkoetter, Roscoe; "Aliens from Space", Major Donald E. Keyhoe, 1975

(Please note the "dangers" that Hillenkoetter talks about are from SECRECY not from the UFOs.
It also does not mean the unknown/unidentified flying objects were of an other worldly nature.
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747Ag
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In reply to 747Ag • 5:49p, 5/10/24
AG
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.

Tough crowd.
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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In reply to 747Ag • 5:53p, 5/10/24
747Ag said:
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.

Tough crowd.
No doubt. It's a reality that many find troublesome. Hence, my activity to "break" folks in gently. Would be irresponsible on my part if I didn't.
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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jrico2727
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 9:24p, 5/10/24
AG
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
747Ag said:
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.

Tough crowd.
No doubt. It's a reality that many find troublesome. Hence, my activity to "break" folks in gently. Would be irresponsible on my part if I didn't.


I think we're past the just posting a video without explanation or vague pointless statements. You've exhausted the first step of "breaking us in". Please now, impress us with something new instead of the same old played out George Noory ancient aliens bit.
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PabloSerna
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 10:02p, 5/10/24
AG
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
747Ag said:
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.

Tough crowd.
No doubt. It's a reality that many find troublesome. Hence, my activity to "break" folks in gently. Would be irresponsible on my part if I didn't.
I put a smiley face on that post. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I enjoy your posts,
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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In reply to PabloSerna • 10:07p, 5/10/24
PabloSerna said:
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
747Ag said:
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.

Tough crowd.
No doubt. It's a reality that many find troublesome. Hence, my activity to "break" folks in gently. Would be irresponsible on my part if I didn't.
I put a smiley face on that post. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I enjoy your posts,
No prob. Never hurts to reemphasize things. No ruffled feathers at all. It's an amazing time to be alive.
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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747Ag
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In reply to jrico2727 • 10:08p, 5/10/24
AG
jrico2727 said:
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
747Ag said:
747Ag said:
PabloSerna said:
You want us to say "ET" don't you?
He didn't phone home, so I guess Elliot is out of the question too? Sorry for the humor break. Carry on.

Tough crowd.
No doubt. It's a reality that many find troublesome. Hence, my activity to "break" folks in gently. Would be irresponsible on my part if I didn't.


I think we're past the just posting a video without explanation or vague pointless statements. You've exhausted the first step of "breaking us in". Please now, impress us with something new instead of the same old played out George Noory ancient aliens bit.
I just want a video of Elliot and ET riding a bike, but in the air, and in front of the moon.
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BonfireNerd04
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In reply to Leonard H. Stringfield • 10:30p, 5/10/24
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
What are the criteria for "divinely inspired'? Who, what delivered that memo? Who allowed them to be written in the first place?


For the TaNaKh (or "Old Testament"), the judgement was made by the Sanhedrin. The New Testament was canonized by some ecumenical councils in the 300's.
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Leonard H. Stringfield
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In reply to BonfireNerd04 • 10:40p, 5/10/24
BonfireNerd04 said:
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
What are the criteria for "divinely inspired'? Who, what delivered that memo? Who allowed them to be written in the first place?


For the TaNaKh (or "Old Testament"), the judgement was made by the Sanhedrin. The New Testament was canonized by some ecumenical councils in the 300's.
Thanks
"Roswell, 1947, there was a uap (ufo) that crashed, in fact there were 2 uaps, 1 crashed and one flew away and the other one did not and was recovered by the US GOVERNMENT."
- Lue Elizondo-former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program-August 20, 2024

Are A&M's core values..optional? Who has the POWER to determine that? Are certain departments exempt? Why?

Farsight Institute, Atlanta, GA

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AgLiving06
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In reply to BonfireNerd04 • 7:08p, 5/12/24
BonfireNerd04 said:
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
What are the criteria for "divinely inspired'? Who, what delivered that memo? Who allowed them to be written in the first place?


For the TaNaKh (or "Old Testament"), the judgement was made by the Sanhedrin. The New Testament was canonized by some ecumenical councils in the 300's.

Your second sentence isn't correct.

No ecumenical council canonized the Scriptures.

There were local councils that would list the books they used as a "canon" or collection for the purposes of their council, but there was no ecumenical level council.
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PabloSerna
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11:21p, 5/12/24
AG
Is that because it was obvious to everyone at the time?
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to BonfireNerd04 • 8:48a, 5/13/24
AG
BonfireNerd04 said:
Leonard H. Stringfield said:
What are the criteria for "divinely inspired'? Who, what delivered that memo? Who allowed them to be written in the first place?


For the TaNaKh (or "Old Testament"), the judgement was made by the Sanhedrin. The New Testament was canonized by some ecumenical councils in the 300's.
Its way more nuanced than that, any counsel or meeting about 'what is canonical' is a winnowing of the books the community has already made the effort to preserve. But the very process of preserving the books is the actual formation of canon - not the counsel being called at a later date.

And the some ecumenical counsel you are referring to is the Counsel of Nicea which was formed to fend off the heresy of Jesus being a first creation by God the Father instead of being begotten and also the Father. At the end of the Counsel, Emperor Constantine commissioned the production of 50 bibles. We don't have anything that shows they fought over which books.
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AgLiving06
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In reply to PabloSerna • 6:21p, 5/13/24
PabloSerna said:
Is that because it was obvious to everyone at the time?

In a sense yes.

The Church Fathers who looked towards the Jews to understand the "Hebrew Bible" were consistent in saying the OT was 22-24 books (depending on how different Jewish groups) combined books.

When it comes to the NT, as early as you get, the Gospels and Pauls letters were in wide circulation, usually in a set. Some of the NT did not circulate as widely or there was questions about, and so those took longer to spread and eventually find acceptance.

It was understood that the apocrypha were not books widely accepted by the Jews as "canon" though they were known and used.

Then there's the definition of canon itself. It wasn't as defined as it would become. In many cases, there were books that were "God's Word" and then "useful books" all combined into a singular "canon." It was understood that there were differentiations between the two classes. This differentiation was sustained really until the Reformation.
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PabloSerna
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 10:56p, 5/13/24
AG
You say tomato, I say tomato...

"apocrypha" vs. "deuterocanonical"
"reformation" vs. "counter-reformation"

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AgLiving06
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In reply to PabloSerna • 7:48a, 5/14/24
The word apocrypha isn't a negative term. It's simply the historical term dating to at least Jerome who used it in his prefaces in the Vulgate for certain books or portions of books that were either outright spoken against or were not found in Hebrew.

So if you wanted to be historically accurate in your language it seems to be the proper term to use.

The best I could find quickly (i.e. Wikipedia) says deuterocanonical is really a medieval Latin term.

So it's really a question of how accurate we want to be to history.
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one MEEN Ag
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2:22p, 5/14/24
AG
Lord of Spirits just put out a great episode on the Testament of The Twelve Patriarchs, which is a second temple jewish book. Its apocryphal but not in the sense like Enoch where Enoch is viewed as one of the 'first books' left out. This book is obviously not written by the twelve patriarchs because its written post rise and fall of the first temple.

They bring up an interesting point in the middle of the podcast. This was literature produced and preserved by 2nd temple jews. But, after the time of Jesus you see that the only surviving copies come down the Ortho-Catholic early church and it stops being a book important enough to copy among the Pharisaical line. And when you read the testaments its pretty obvious why- its chuck full of prophetic language that is so pro Christ that historians accuse Christians of inserting Christ like language into it.

Again, canon is way more about who is copying a text, preserving it, and why. And much less about a counsel and a list. 2nd temple jews and the orthodox church would agree this book is good to be read at home. Modern jews would not.

https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/testaments_of_the_twelve_patriarchs
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AgLiving06
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7:36a, 5/15/24
I'll give it a listen, but will be honest that I struggle with DeYoung. I don't find him convincing in many of his statements and he tends to rely on being on EO focused conversations to avoid real challenges to his position.
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CrackerJackAg
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5:40a, 6/11/24
AG
I knew this thread would be highly entertaining and grossly ignorant when Protestants starting arguing about canonical status of books, its history and whether it not it was "divinely inspired."

Geez….
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 6:46a, 6/11/24
Testament of the 12 Patriarchs doesn't have good (or really any) evidence for its form before the first full copy we have from the 10th century. And the verses supporting Christian theology come across as very out of place from the rest of the text. There are snippets of verses in the Dead Sea Scrolls suggesting some version of the book existed, and it's referenced in the 3rd century, but assuming the version we have now and the version from the 2nd Temple era were the same is not a tenable conclusion right now.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 8:50a, 6/11/24
AG
I mean, I think you just proved my points here. The Christ parts are 'out of place' and that its the church that preserved the text. You and I have a fundamental disagreement that underpins this. You believe that the pharisees preserved everything perfectly from the second temple literature on over to the 2000 year post Christ lineage. I believe the Pharisees started boxing out messianic interpretations out of their preserved writings the second Christ was resurrected.

Qumran Dead Sea Scrolls is a great example of this. They wrote about Melchizedek in 100 BC in such a prophetic way that, again, its ham fisted its so Christ like. These would have been tossed aside over 2000 years by Pharisees. And these would have been integrated into the early church had they early church seen them.
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Windy City Ag
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9:17a, 6/11/24
AG
I remember reading once that this book is still considered canon by several of the smaller, straggler sects of the Jewish and Christian Faith in Ethiopia and Eritrea. Outside of that, pretty much every other mainline religious authority going all the way to the LDS has ignored it.

Wasn't it ignored or sidelined early on (i.e. BC era by the Pharisees) because it was produced by the Essenes rather than the Pharisees or Sadducees? If I remember correctly, the Essenes were considered heretical at that time.





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Sapper Redux
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 3:21p, 6/11/24
one MEEN Ag said:
I mean, I think you just proved my points here. The Christ parts are 'out of place' and that its the church that preserved the text. You and I have a fundamental disagreement that underpins this. You believe that the pharisees preserved everything perfectly from the second temple literature on over to the 2000 year post Christ lineage. I believe the Pharisees started boxing out messianic interpretations out of their preserved writings the second Christ was resurrected.

Qumran Dead Sea Scrolls is a great example of this. They wrote about Melchizedek in 100 BC in such a prophetic way that, again, its ham fisted its so Christ like. These would have been tossed aside over 2000 years by Pharisees. And these would have been integrated into the early church had they early church seen them.


I didn't prove your points. I stated the problems with trying to claim it's in any way a known, consistent document that existed before Jesus. There appears to have been something based on a tiny number of snippets from one of the books in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but that's it. It doesn't surface as a known text until mentioned in the 3rd century by Christian theologians and it doesn't exist in any kind of copy until the 10th century. I'm not aware of any academic scholar, believer or not, who accepts the 10th century text at face value. Despite what you want to believe, that actually means something, since they will argue over just about everything.
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