Without God, there is a job vacancy for others to be as God and take control over everything. We saw this with Kings, Queens, and Pharaohs of old. The French thought it was a good idea and ended up getting Napoleon, etc.

The fact of the matter is that we are in dangerous waters. It's only a matter of time until either God moves upon this nation with a revival or another awakening or gives us what we deserve before all of that takes place.

That's why I loved "Rich men north of Richmond" so much.

God has never been central and properly respected/venerated in any true way by any civilization in history.

It's not our nature. Man is fallen and we act like it.

CrackerJackAg said:

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God has never been central and properly respected/venerated in any true way by any civilization in history.

It's not our nature. Man is fallen and we act like it.

---

Do you know any information on Constantinople? Spend a month learning that history.

So God made humans in His image and took on human nature but it's not in our nature…sounds like Calvin. Evil is an act of the will, not nature.

TheGreatEscape said:

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Without God, there is a job vacancy for others to be as God and take control over everything. We saw this with Kings, Queens, and Pharaohs of old. The French thought it was a good idea and ended up getting Napoleon, etc.

The fact of the matter is that we are in dangerous waters. It's only a matter of time until either God moves upon this nation with a revival or another awakening or gives us what we deserve before all of that takes place.

That's why I loved "Rich men north of Richmond" so much.

---

Revivals are filled with mentally and spiritually ill people clinging to whatever emotion comes out first. None of it is from Christ.

Well…we need mass repentance asap if you don't like
the term awakening or revival.

TheGreatEscape said:

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Without God, there is a job vacancy for others to be as God and take control over everything. We saw this with Kings, Queens, and Pharaohs of old. The French thought it was a good idea and ended up getting Napoleon, etc.

The fact of the matter is that we are in dangerous waters. It's only a matter of time until either God moves upon this nation with a revival or another awakening or gives us what we deserve before all of that takes place.

That's why I loved "Rich men north of Richmond" so much.

---

Huh? Not sure what an anti-welfare song has to do with a revival, but there were plenty of horrid kings during very religious eras. Some of them were Popes.

Klaus Schwab said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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God has never been central and properly respected/venerated in any true way by any civilization in history.

It's not our nature. Man is fallen and we act like it.

---

Do you know any information on Constantinople? Spend a month learning that history.

So God made humans in His image and took on human nature but it's not in our nature…sounds like Calvin. Evil is an act of the will, not nature.

---

Byzantium is your idea of a society "properly venerating God"? They were a pretty brutal society with a debauched aristocracy.

To put it in another way…

"Everywhere there rises before our eyes the spectre of a society where security, if it is attained at all, will be attained at the expense of freedom, where the security that is attained will be the security of fed beasts in a stable, and where all the high aspirations of humanity will have been crushed by an all-powerful state."
J. Gresham Machen

https://fee.org/articles/j-gresham-machen-a-forgotten-libertarian/

Sapper Redux said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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Without God, there is a job vacancy for others to be as God and take control over everything. We saw this with Kings, Queens, and Pharaohs of old. The French thought it was a good idea and ended up getting Napoleon, etc.

The fact of the matter is that we are in dangerous waters. It's only a matter of time until either God moves upon this nation with a revival or another awakening or gives us what we deserve before all of that takes place.

That's why I loved "Rich men north of Richmond" so much.

---

Huh? Not sure what an anti-welfare song has to do with a revival, but there were plenty of horrid kings during very religious eras. Some of them were Popes.

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Because Anthony (author of the song) read some Psalms about the oppression of the wicked. The song is more about the "rich wicked " than it is about class warfare.

Where's the call from every sector of Christianity to get down on our faces in prayer for our country and the world abroad?

We are about to experience some real tragedy if we don't repent. Liberty is just one of the things we will lose.

Klaus Schwab said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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God has never been central and properly respected/venerated in any true way by any civilization in history.

It's not our nature. Man is fallen and we act like it.

---

Do you know any information on Constantinople? Spend a month learning that history.

So God made humans in His image and took on human nature but it's not in our nature…sounds like Calvin. Evil is an act of the will, not nature.

---

I seriously doubt you've ever read the "Institutes."

Klaus Schwab said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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God has never been central and properly respected/venerated in any true way by any civilization in history.

It's not our nature. Man is fallen and we act like it.

---

Do you know any information on Constantinople? Spend a month learning that history.

So God made humans in His image and took on human nature but it's not in our nature…sounds like Calvin. Evil is an act of the will, not nature.

---

Yes, it is the capital of the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire. I could literally teach a graduate level course on it. I have been there several times. I am Orthodox (certainly not Calvinist) and I have met the Patriarch (nothing special as it was seconds and he certainly doesn't remember).

I have read and purchased every book ever printed on it. I have a library consisting of hundreds of the hardest to find and unbelievably dry books you can imagine. I have not read them all…yet. I have old books I bought in Turkey that I don't even know what they are yet.

My birthday was last week. My gift from my wife was a hand drawn map from the 16th century the Patriarch of Constantinople himself drew. I'm nerdier than most on the topic.

I'm 43 and already I stress about all the crap I have bought that almost no one else with find value in for when I bite the bullet..

That said, I don't think you caught the point of my post.

Despite how we try we (most) fall incredibly short as individuals to properly place God in our lives. I am one of the worst.

As entire nations, despite our best efforts, there has never been an entire country do God Justice. If that's the standard we are all lost. The Romans did the best by a mile but still fall short despite humanities best ever effort. I certainly am not of the group that thinks this country has ever done purely Gods work. We are in no worse position with God today than we were at our founding.

It's just my opinion. I can accept if you disagree.

I cant accept you calling me an uneducated Calvinist.

Maybe it was just your wording but human nature has nothing to do with it. Your statement came across as something similar to total depravity. Sorry if that was not the case.

That's great you have all that information on Constantinople. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. What are some of the main reasons why it wouldn't be an example of a civilization properly placing God at the center? What would that look like to you?

Who is to say that we don't have twenty thousand years before Christ returns? We don't know. We still could be in the early church.

I believe that Christ wins in the end. I'm tired of the eschatological pessimism.
It's time for some fervor and optimism.

Why pray "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" when we don't expect that result?

Matthew 28:18-20 (ESV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Notice that Christ doesn't say to just go make disciples and baptize them. He says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." And now therefore go…

And verse twenty says to disciple the nations.

1 Corinthians 15:25-26 (ESV)

25 "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death."

TheGreatEscape said:

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Without God, there is a job vacancy for others to be as God and take control over everything. We saw this with Kings, Queens, and Pharaohs of old. The French thought it was a good idea and ended up getting Napoleon, etc.

The fact of the matter is that we are in dangerous waters. It's only a matter of time until either God moves upon this nation with a revival or another awakening or gives us what we deserve before all of that takes place.

That's why I loved "Rich men north of Richmond" so much.

---

How many of those Kings and Queens believed themselves to be ordained by God and how many were supported by popes and churches? Since God does not speak for Himself, who should 'take control of everything'?

What are the dangerous waters we are in today? We have been trending for hundreds of years toward societies where murder, rape, theft, and slavery are falling out of fashion. But, some boys kiss other boys. . . is that the problem?

What is it that you feel we deserve?

kurt vonnegut said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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Without God, there is a job vacancy for others to be as God and take control over everything. We saw this with Kings, Queens, and Pharaohs of old. The French thought it was a good idea and ended up getting Napoleon, etc.

The fact of the matter is that we are in dangerous waters. It's only a matter of time until either God moves upon this nation with a revival or another awakening or gives us what we deserve before all of that takes place.

That's why I loved "Rich men north of Richmond" so much.

---

How many of those Kings and Queens believed themselves to be ordained by God and how many were supported by popes and churches? Since God does not speak for Himself, who should 'take control of everything'?

What are the dangerous waters we are in today? We have been trending for hundreds of years toward societies where murder, rape, theft, and slavery are falling out of fashion. But, some boys kiss other boys. . . is that the problem?

What is it that you feel we deserve?

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The breakdown of the family and the rising welfare state will recycle all of them, save only slavery.