Is "groupthink" in science a problem or a myth?

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Jabin
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Is "groupthink" in science a problem or a myth? - Big Think

The author of this article concludes that it is a myth. That what may appear to be groupthink is actually scientists correctly resisting new ideas that fail "to succeed where our current theories cannot". In other words, the new ideas fail because the technology is inadequate to measure their predictions, or they simply do a poorer job of explaining the data than do the prevailing theories.

The author uses the ancient battle of geocentricism vs. heliocentrism to illustrate his point. He correctly points out that geocentricism carried the day for so long because it better explained the available data than heliocentrism did.

Quote:

We often ask ourselves, "How was this possible?" How did this geocentric picture of the Universe go largely unchallenged for well over 1,000 years? There's this common narrative that certain dogma, like the Earth being stationary and the center of the Universe, could not be challenged. But the truth is far more complex: the reason the geocentric model held sway for so long wasn't because of the problem of groupthink, but rather because the evidence fit it so well: far better than the alternatives.
The reason that it fit the evidence better is that the available technology was insufficient to observe the contrary evidence. The earth's rotation was not able to be proven until the invention of the Foucalt pendulum in the 19th century and the first parallax of stars was not able to be observed and measured until the development of sufficiently advanced telescopes, also in the 19th century.

Quote:

The Earth does rotate, but we didn't have the tools or the precision to make quantitative predictions for what we'd expect to see. It turns out that the Earth does rotate, but the key experiment that allowed us to see it on Earth, the Foucault pendulum, wasn't developed until the 19th century. Similarly, the first parallax wasn't seen until the 19th century either, owing to the fact that the distance to the stars is enormous, and it takes the Earth migrating by millions of kilometers over weeks and months, not thousands of kilometers over a few hours, for our telescopes to detect it.
Quote:

The reason it took so long to supersede the geocentric model of the Universe, close to 2000 years, is because of how successful the model was at describing what we observed. The positions of the heavenly bodies could be modeled exquisitely using the geocentric model, in a way that the heliocentric model could not reproduce. It was only with the 17th century work of Johannes Kepler who tossed out the Copernican assumption that planetary orbits must be reliant on circles that led to the heliocentric model finally overtaking the geocentric one.
I have two thoughts after reading this article. First, although the author is correct that the reluctance of science to change is often due to lack of a better explanation rather than groupthink, groupthink can also and does exist in science. The two explanations are not mutually exclusive. Scientists are humans and, as such, are subject to all the frailties and problems of humans in general.

Second, this purely secular article essentially debunks the secular myth of religion vs. science. Although the Pope did punish Galileo mildly, it was not due to religion or to the Church's opposition to science, but rather due to the facts that Galileo went out of his way to mock the Pope and that the science, at that time, did not support Galileo. The Galileo myth is not a good example of religion vs. science.
Martin Q. Blank
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Quote:

The author uses the ancient battle of geocentricism vs. heliocentrism to illustrate his point.
Bad example. Both are just models and the "available data" can be explained by both.
ramblin_ag02
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AG
Full disclosure: I haven't read the article yet. But the assertions that you related are laughable. Just do a quick google search on Cecilia Payne

https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curriculum-collections/cosmic-horizons-book/cecilia-payne-profile

Or read the current day controversy about beta amyloid and Alzheimers

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/for-researchers/explaining-amyloid-research-study-controversy

Whenever new data points a new paradigm, you get a certain predictable sequence of events. Everyone starts out skeptical while the results are replicated. Often attempts are made at this stage by people in the scientific establishment to defund or limit the dissemination of research in order to preserve their own pet theories upon which they have built their careers. Eventually the data pool becomes large and definitive. The people advocating for changes to the scientific paradigm proceed with data, but the old guard will leverage their position, their connections, and their control of funding to fight back against the new paradigm. Eventually, these old guard retire or die off, and the paradigm changes quickly once this resistance is dropped. Then the people made stars by the new data and theories become the old guard, and the process frequently repeats.

In short, scientists are people, scientific institutions are bureaucratic and political, and change in ideas take time. Sometimes even a full generation.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Jabin
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I thought I said the same?

Quote:

I have two thoughts after reading this article. First, although the author is correct that the reluctance of science to change is often due to lack of a better explanation rather than groupthink, groupthink can also and does exist in science. The two explanations are not mutually exclusive. Scientists are humans and, as such, are subject to all the frailties and problems of humans in general.

ramblin_ag02
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AG
Yeah, I was responding to the conclusions of the article. You and I agree
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
UTExan
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I think Robert Kuhn basically said the same thing you guys are saying in his 1962 classic The Structure of Scientific Revolutions?
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
BluHorseShu
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AG
Jabin said:

Is "groupthink" in science a problem or a myth? - Big Think

The author of this article concludes that it is a myth. That what may appear to be groupthink is actually scientists correctly resisting new ideas that fail "to succeed where our current theories cannot". In other words, the new ideas fail because the technology is inadequate to measure their predictions, or they simply do a poorer job of explaining the data than do the prevailing theories.

The author uses the ancient battle of geocentricism vs. heliocentrism to illustrate his point. He correctly points out that geocentricism carried the day for so long because it better explained the available data than heliocentrism did.

Quote:

We often ask ourselves, "How was this possible?" How did this geocentric picture of the Universe go largely unchallenged for well over 1,000 years? There's this common narrative that certain dogma, like the Earth being stationary and the center of the Universe, could not be challenged. But the truth is far more complex: the reason the geocentric model held sway for so long wasn't because of the problem of groupthink, but rather because the evidence fit it so well: far better than the alternatives.
The reason that it fit the evidence better is that the available technology was insufficient to observe the contrary evidence. The earth's rotation was not able to be proven until the invention of the Foucalt pendulum in the 19th century and the first parallax of stars was not able to be observed and measured until the development of sufficiently advanced telescopes, also in the 19th century.

Quote:

The Earth does rotate, but we didn't have the tools or the precision to make quantitative predictions for what we'd expect to see. It turns out that the Earth does rotate, but the key experiment that allowed us to see it on Earth, the Foucault pendulum, wasn't developed until the 19th century. Similarly, the first parallax wasn't seen until the 19th century either, owing to the fact that the distance to the stars is enormous, and it takes the Earth migrating by millions of kilometers over weeks and months, not thousands of kilometers over a few hours, for our telescopes to detect it.
Quote:

The reason it took so long to supersede the geocentric model of the Universe, close to 2000 years, is because of how successful the model was at describing what we observed. The positions of the heavenly bodies could be modeled exquisitely using the geocentric model, in a way that the heliocentric model could not reproduce. It was only with the 17th century work of Johannes Kepler who tossed out the Copernican assumption that planetary orbits must be reliant on circles that led to the heliocentric model finally overtaking the geocentric one.
I have two thoughts after reading this article. First, although the author is correct that the reluctance of science to change is often due to lack of a better explanation rather than groupthink, groupthink can also and does exist in science. The two explanations are not mutually exclusive. Scientists are humans and, as such, are subject to all the frailties and problems of humans in general.

Second, this purely secular article essentially debunks the secular myth of religion vs. science. Although the Pope did punish Galileo mildly, it was not due to religion or to the Church's opposition to science, but rather due to the facts that Galileo went out of his way to mock the Pope and that the science, at that time, did not support Galileo. The Galileo myth is not a good example of religion vs. science.
Good question. Let me ask everyone and I'll get back to you.
Jabin
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