Why did Adam and

Edit:

So my original post got edited...

Why did Adam and Eve cover up if they were the only humans around to notice?
Had they already had children at that point who may have seen them? There isn't a timetable between Eve being created and the fall, so that's possible right?
Who cares if a bunch of animals see you? Unless they were all talking animals like the serpent...

The text says their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked. Shame (2:25)? Fear (3:10)?

discobrob said:

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The text says their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked. Shame (2:25)? Fear (3:10)?

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And as anyone who has ever held a fig leaf in their hand can tell you, they immediately engaged in a penitential act by placing a fig leaf over their private parts.

discobrob said:

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The text says their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked. Shame (2:25)? Fear (3:10)?

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I believe it was Augustine that believed the first sin of Adam was lusting for Eve.

AgLiving06 said:

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discobrob said:

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The text says their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked. Shame (2:25)? Fear (3:10)?

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I believe it was Augustine that believed the first sin of Adam was lusting for Eve.

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So Eve had a nice rack and an ample, shapely behind? Hairy pits though…maybe that was hot then!

AgLiving06 said:

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discobrob said:

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The text says their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked. Shame (2:25)? Fear (3:10)?

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I believe it was Augustine that believed the first sin of Adam was lusting for Eve.

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Lol, so eating the fruit wasn't a sin. Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

That's not what the texts seems to say. I wonder how Augustine gets there.

Logos Stick said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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discobrob said:

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The text says their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked. Shame (2:25)? Fear (3:10)?

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I believe it was Augustine that believed the first sin of Adam was lusting for Eve.

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Lol, so eating the fruit wasn't a sin. Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

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I think the issue was that in eating the fruit, Adam's eyes were open to what true sin was and so he lusts after Eve and then lies to God.

I'm sure it's taken from the Scriptures where Adam and Eve hid from God and when they say it's because they were naked and God wanted to know how they knew that and that is the moment when sin was realized.

I think part of this was the struggles Augustine had with lust (having had a kid out of wedlock), but found it interesting.

The command wasn't to not lust though. The command was to refrain from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Ancient theologians get crazy with conjecture and allegory sometimes.

Seeing that something is good and taking it is used to describe other sinful acts in the Old Testament.

And then Jesus flips it upside down when he says "this is my body, take and eat."

So my original post got edited...

Why did Adam and Eve cover up if they were the only humans around to notice?
Had they already had children at that point who may have seen them? There isn't a timetable between Eve being created and the fall, so that's possible right?
Who cares if a bunch of animals see you? Unless they were all talking animals like the serpent...

"I think the issue was that in eating the fruit, Adam's eyes were open to what true sin was and so he lusts after Eve and then lies to God. "


Why would it be lustful to desire your wife/husband? They would have been intimate by that point, ans God literally made them for each other.

Adam - Lust to have a mate, so God created Eve. The sin before Eve ate the apple?

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Quote:

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I'm sure it's taken from the Scriptures where Adam and Eve hid from God and when they say it's because they were naked and God wanted to know how they knew that and that is the moment when sin was realized.

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The cover up always gets you more trouble

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Exactly!

Collateral matter:

The covenant was between God and Adam. Eve was not a party to the covenant. When Eve eats of the forbidden fruit, what happens? Nothing. See Genesis chapter 3. When Adam eats of the forbidden fruit, what happens? "All hell breaks loose." Yes, Eve facilitated Adam's breach of the covenant by handing the fruit to him. But it was Adam who was given the duty to tend the garden, to guard and protect it. So where was he when Eve was being tempted and deceived? He was standing there and didn't act. Adam's dereliction of duty paved the way for Eve's dialogue with the devil, leading to her deception. But the covenant having been made with Adam, the messiah had to be a male. He had to be a new Adam.

SIDENOTE: NEVER DIALOGUE WITH THE DEVIL!

They didn't want to pay the fine

Isaiah 29:15

Those who try to hide their plans from the Lord are as good as dead, who do their work in secret and boast, "Who sees us? Who knows what we're doing?"

Jeremiah 23:24

"Do you really think anyone can hide himself where I cannot see him?" the Lord asks. "Do you not know that I am everywhere?" the Lord asks.

Revelation 6:15-17
15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

If you raise kids, you will see them hide from you when they are doing something they are not supposed to.

FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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Collateral matter:

The covenant was between God and Adam. Eve was not a party to the covenant. When Eve eats of the forbidden fruit, what happens? Nothing. See Genesis chapter 3. When Adam eats of the forbidden fruit, what happens? "All hell breaks loose." Yes, Eve facilitated Adam's breach of the covenant by handing the fruit to him. But it was Adam who was given the duty to tend the garden, to guard and protect it. So where was he when Eve was being tempted and deceived? He was standing there and didn't act. Adam's dereliction of duty paved the way for Eve's dialogue with the devil, leading to her deception. But the covenant having been made with Adam, the messiah had to be a male. He had to be a new Adam.

SIDENOTE: NEVER DIALOGUE WITH THE DEVIL!

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Not saying that this isn't true, but it sent me down a weird mental rabbit hole speculating on the nature of Eve's consciousness and personality. Going from a literal reading, Eve came from Adam's body. Adam received the commandment not to eat "the apple", and she was part of him when that happened. So she did receive the commandment. So the question revolves around her mental state at her creation. Was she a blank slate like a newborn, did she have Adam's memories, or was there something entirely different going on? Only if she were a blank slate would she not be bound by the same commandment, and that's assuming that neither Adam or God passed the commandment along to her after her creation.

I think the newborn blank slate aspect is sort of creepy for someone made to be a companion. Then again, I get Black Mirror vibes from the new Eve having all Adam's memories and basically being a female clone of him. So I'm rooting for option C where God just made it all work out in a non-disturbing way

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that "the account of the fall in Genesis … uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents."

ramblin_ag02 said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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Collateral matter:

The covenant was between God and Adam. Eve was not a party to the covenant. When Eve eats of the forbidden fruit, what happens? Nothing. See Genesis chapter 3. When Adam eats of the forbidden fruit, what happens? "All hell breaks loose." Yes, Eve facilitated Adam's breach of the covenant by handing the fruit to him. But it was Adam who was given the duty to tend the garden, to guard and protect it. So where was he when Eve was being tempted and deceived? He was standing there and didn't act. Adam's dereliction of duty paved the way for Eve's dialogue with the devil, leading to her deception. But the covenant having been made with Adam, the messiah had to be a male. He had to be a new Adam.

SIDENOTE: NEVER DIALOGUE WITH THE DEVIL!

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Not saying that this isn't true, but it sent me down a weird mental rabbit hole speculating on the nature of Eve's consciousness and personality. Going from a literal reading, Eve came from Adam's body. Adam received the commandment not to eat "the apple", and she was part of him when that happened. So she did receive the commandment. So the question revolves around her mental state at her creation. Was she a blank slate like a newborn, did she have Adam's memories, or was there something entirely different going on? Only if she were a blank slate would she not be bound by the same commandment, and that's assuming that neither Adam or God passed the commandment along to her after her creation.

I think the newborn blank slate aspect is sort of creepy for someone made to be a companion. Then again, I get Black Mirror vibes from the new Eve having all Adam's memories and basically being a female clone of him. So I'm rooting for option C where God just made it all work out in a non-disturbing way

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Interesting. I'm not a theologian but I am a lawyer, so I have some appreciation for the unique nature of a covenant. It's not just a "contract" and I don't think the covenant God made with Adam would be binding on Eve in the same way it was binding on Adam since it predated her existence. She might have been the beneficiary of the covenant but the sacred vows made would have been binding between God and Adam. At least that's how I suspect it would be considered. I'm open to being educated.

What of the verse that says, "the two will become one flesh" GEN 2:24?

PabloSerna said:

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What of the verse that says, "the two will become one flesh" GEN 2:24?

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Don't see how that changes who the covenant was made between and when it was made.

TX05CCHH said:

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Why did Adam and

Edit:

So my original post got edited...

Why did Adam and Eve cover up if they were the only humans around to notice?
Had they already had children at that point who may have seen them? There isn't a timetable between Eve being created and the fall, so that's possible right?
Who cares if a bunch of animals see you? Unless they were all talking animals like the serpent...

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The knowledge of good and evil is quite powerful. And with that knowledge, the first thoughts of sexual immorality entered their minds, and it was a pretty natural reaction to cover up to help avoid those thoughts and their lustful desires.

The nakedness was not sexual. I think it was an indication of a larger self-awareness. Their eyes were opened to their selfish and sinful nature. They were vulnerable and exposed. Covering up the bits was representative of trying to hide themselves.