This debate centers on Matthew 5:25 in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.

In the sermon Jesus says:

23 Therefore if you present your gift at the alter and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 Leave your gift there at the altar and first go be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your gift
25 Settle the case quickly with your accuser, while you are with him on the way, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown in prison.

In ancient Jewish literature, the word translated in English as adversary means an adversary in court. it if equivalent to plaintiff, advocate, one who administers the law against a defendant, or an opponent in general.


The Scriptures read Isaiah 3:13: Arisen is Yahweh for judgment, and stands to judge the nations (the people) and

Joel 4:12: There I (Yahweh) will sit to judge all the nations.

Besides the fact that one verse shows Yahweh judges the nations (the people) and the other has Yahweh judging all nations, how can God do this? Will God serve as prosecutor/plaintiff and the Judge (that is stand and litigate and sit and judge?)

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

How do you read Luke 18:3? The word adversary in that verse is exactly the same word as accuser in Matthew 5:25. In english the words are (adversary Matthew 5:25) and (accuser Luke 18:3) but the underlying word is antidikos. Same word, same meaning in both passages, translated differently.

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

My understanding is that since we are washed in the blood of Christ, God sees us as Christ. Because of His blood we appear righteous.

Our sins are forgiven forever so where is the judgement? And for what? Christ has taken all that away.

Christ did not say it is almost finished. He said it is finished.

dermdoc said:

---

My understanding is that since we are washed in the blood of Christ, God sees us as Christ. Because of His blood we appear righteous.

Our sins are forgiven forever so where is the judgement? And for what? Christ has taken all that away.

Christ did not say it is almost finished. He said it is finished.

---

A few questions:

(1) Do you believe Christ's blood atones for sins because is perfect? Is Christ's perfection sufficient in of itself to make you righteous?

(2) Do you believe the book of Revelation is inspired scripture, or is it merely a commentary?

(3) If Christ said it is finished like your say, then why doesn't the story end there?

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

My understanding is that since we are washed in the blood of Christ, God sees us as Christ. Because of His blood we appear righteous.

Our sins are forgiven forever so where is the judgement? And for what? Christ has taken all that away.

Christ did not say it is almost finished. He said it is finished.

---

A few questions:

(1) Do you believe Christ's blood atones for sins because is perfect? Is Christ's perfection sufficient in of itself to make you righteous?

(2) Do you believe the book of Revelation is inspired scripture, or is it merely a commentary?

(3) If Christ said it is finished like your say, then why doesn't the story end there?

---

I believe that Christ's blood and sacrifice is the only way we are made to appear righteous.

I believe Revelation is inspired Scripture about the Roman Empire and Christian persecution during that time period.

In other words, I believe it was written about that time period with a futuristic look at the ultimate triumph of good over evil.

Not a Left Behind guy.

And I interpret "It is finished" is that through the work of Christ on the cross, we are made to appear righteous. Nothing more is needed.

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

And I thought he was saying he was on the side of the table being judged.

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

Well you thought wrong.

dermdoc said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

And I thought he was saying he was on the side of the table being judged.

---

Well you thought wrong.

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Invigorating debate tone here this morning. Makes me really want to dive in to the weeds of how God plans to stand when performing the last judgement.

There's a lot of pride here on this thread as well.

I stand by the fact that the appropriate position for the last judgement for all of us is a full prostration.

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Invigorating debate tone here this morning. Makes me really want to dive in to the weeds of how God plans to stand when performing the last judgement.

There's a lot of pride here on this thread as well.

I stand by the fact that the appropriate position for the last judgement for all of us is a full prostration.

---

Have any thoughts about the topic of the thread? Will God be sitting or standing?

EDIT: Based on the passages I cited, he will do both. Depending on who He is judging...

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Invigorating debate tone here this morning. Makes me really want to dive in to the weeds of how God plans to stand when performing the last judgement.

There's a lot of pride here on this thread as well.

I stand by the fact that the appropriate position for the last judgement for all of us is a full prostration.

---

Agree.

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

And I thought he was saying he was on the side of the table being judged.

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Sorry but I do not believe you will be judging anyone on Judgement Day.

Especially not me.

dermdoc said:

---

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

And I thought he was saying he was on the side of the table being judged.

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Sorry but I do not believe you will be judging anyone on Judgement Day.

Especially not me.

---

Did I say I would be judging anyone?

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

And I thought he was saying he was on the side of the table being judged.

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Sorry but I do not believe you will be judging anyone on Judgement Day.

Especially not me.

---

Did I say I would be judging anyone?

---

Guess I misunderstood your post.

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

Why in the wide world of sports does it matter? Are you building your case to plead before God? Does know the answer change in anyway the end result?

All I know is that a lot of us, including myself, need to start humbling ourselves….

88Warrior said:

---

All I know is that a lot of us, including myself, need to start humbling ourselves….

---

I know I do.

BluHorseShu said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

Why in the wide world of sports does it matter? Are you building your case to plead before God? Does know the answer change in anyway the end result?

---

It matters because scripture is important, designated by God to live well. Jesus spent much of his time interpreting scripture.

Knowing the answer will lead to edification. God stands when judging the nations, that is Israel (the Church) and Judah. When God stands, he cuts the trial early and both Israel and Judah are absolved of judgment. When God judges all nations, that is, the nations other than Israel and Judah, he sits and drags the trial out.

codker92 said:

---

BluHorseShu said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

Why in the wide world of sports does it matter? Are you building your case to plead before God? Does know the answer change in anyway the end result?

---

It matters because scripture is important, designated by God to live well. Jesus spent much of his time interpreting scripture.

Knowing the answer will lead to edification. God stands when judging the nations, that is Israel (the Church) and Judah. When God stands, he cuts the trial early and both Israel and Judah are absolved of judgment. When God judges all nations, that is, the nations other than Israel and Judah, he sits and drags the trial out.

---

Jesus is The Word became flesh. He is not just a rabbi or a teacher who is gleaning interpretations and weighing between texts. Jesus specifically addresses this in his conversations with Nicodemus. To say he is an interpreter is to misstate what Jesus even says He is.

Are limiting God to legs and a butt? We just had a gospel reading in which he descended on Jesus as a cloud. Maybe God is more than we think?

dermdoc said:

---

My understanding is that since we are washed in the blood of Christ, God sees us as Christ. Because of His blood we appear righteous.

Our sins are forgiven forever so where is the judgement? And for what? Christ has taken all that away.

Christ did not say it is almost finished. He said it is finished.

---

"1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:1-2

PabloSerna said:

---

Are limiting God to legs and a butt? We just had a gospel reading in which he descended on Jesus as a cloud. Maybe God is more than we think?

---

I don't think any of us can comprehend how big God actually is…it's beyond our capabilities.

88Warrior said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Are limiting God to legs and a butt? We just had a gospel reading in which he descended on Jesus as a cloud. Maybe God is more than we think?

---

I don't think any of us can comprehend how big God actually is…it's beyond our capabilities.

---

And much better than we can imagine.

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

I thought the only humans who get a seat at the judgement table are either saints or martyrs.

You planning on picking up some mission work soon?

---

Well you thought wrong.

---

Invigorating debate tone here this morning. Makes me really want to dive in to the weeds of how God plans to stand when performing the last judgement.

There's a lot of pride here on this thread as well.

I stand by the fact that the appropriate position for the last judgement for all of us is a full prostration.

---

Poster on the divine council gives new meaning to "Texags: we know things."

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

BluHorseShu said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

Why in the wide world of sports does it matter? Are you building your case to plead before God? Does know the answer change in anyway the end result?

---

It matters because scripture is important, designated by God to live well. Jesus spent much of his time interpreting scripture.

Knowing the answer will lead to edification. God stands when judging the nations, that is Israel (the Church) and Judah. When God stands, he cuts the trial early and both Israel and Judah are absolved of judgment. When God judges all nations, that is, the nations other than Israel and Judah, he sits and drags the trial out.

---

Jesus is The Word became flesh. He is not just a rabbi or a teacher who is gleaning interpretations and weighing between texts. Jesus specifically addresses this in his conversations with Nicodemus. To say he is an interpreter is to misstate what Jesus even says He is.

---

So you agree with Jesus? Because he is saying atonement doesn't work if your brother has something against you.

EDIT: I would also like to point out the greatest commandment: love god with all your soul, heart, and mind.

37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

codker92 said:

---

BluHorseShu said:

---

codker92 said:

---

one MEEN Ag said:

---

You know, I grew up around a couple of edgy teenage atheists who would say things like, 'Can God create a rock so big that he can't move it?'

But never once did I hear anything quiet like, 'How can God both sit and stand at the same time during the last judgement?'

I don't know about you, but I assume my position (and everyone else's probably) will be face down and not able to critique the courtroom like this is an episode of Matlock.

---

Right, well since I am getting a seat at the judgment table I will continue to critique.

---

Why in the wide world of sports does it matter? Are you building your case to plead before God? Does know the answer change in anyway the end result?

---

It matters because scripture is important, designated by God to live well. Jesus spent much of his time interpreting scripture.

Knowing the answer will lead to edification. God stands when judging the nations, that is Israel (the Church) and Judah. When God stands, he cuts the trial early and both Israel and Judah are absolved of judgment. When God judges all nations, that is, the nations other than Israel and Judah, he sits and drags the trial out.

---

Jesus is The Word became flesh. He is not just a rabbi or a teacher who is gleaning interpretations and weighing between texts. Jesus specifically addresses this in his conversations with Nicodemus. To say he is an interpreter is to misstate what Jesus even says He is.

---

So you agree with Jesus? Because he is saying atonement doesn't work if your brother has something against you.

EDIT: I would also like to point out the greatest commandment: love god with all your soul, heart, and mind.

37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

---

Cool. Who are you arguing against?

dermdoc said:

---

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

My understanding is that since we are washed in the blood of Christ, God sees us as Christ. Because of His blood we appear righteous.

Our sins are forgiven forever so where is the judgement? And for what? Christ has taken all that away.

Christ did not say it is almost finished. He said it is finished.

---

A few questions:

(1) Do you believe Christ's blood atones for sins because is perfect? Is Christ's perfection sufficient in of itself to make you righteous?

(2) Do you believe the book of Revelation is inspired scripture, or is it merely a commentary?

(3) If Christ said it is finished like your say, then why doesn't the story end there?

---

I believe that Christ's blood and sacrifice is the only way we are made to appear righteous.

I believe Revelation is inspired Scripture about the Roman Empire and Christian persecution during that time period.

In other words, I believe it was written about that time period with a futuristic look at the ultimate triumph of good over evil.

Not a Left Behind guy.

And I interpret "It is finished" is that through the work of Christ on the cross, we are made to appear righteous. Nothing more is needed.

---

Quote:

---

I believe that Christ's blood and sacrifice is the only way we are made to appear righteous.

---

How do you account for Genesis 48:16-16 wherein the Angel of Lord redeemed Jacob from all evil? Did the Angel die??

Quote:

---

I believe Revelation is inspired Scripture about the Roman Empire and Christian persecution during that time period.

---

I would agree to some extent, John uses Babylon typologically and symbolically as representing a world system. Rome is compared to Babylon later. For example See Revelation 16:12-16. The sixth bowl is depicted as destruction of Babylon and Israel's restoration; patterned after the drying of the red sea at exodus. Exodus 14:21-22 compare Isa 11:15; 44:27; 50:2; 51:10,

The OT prophesied Babylon's judgment would include the drying up of the Euphrates River. Isa. 11:15; 44:27-28; Jer. 50:38; 51:36;cf. Zech. 10:11.

This was fulfilled fairly literally by Cyrus, who diverted the waters of the Euphrates (Isa. 44:27-28

the drying of the Euphrates river is symbolic of the multitudes of Babylon/Rome's adherents thorughout the world will become disloyal.

I am not Jacob. Covenant changed with Jesus.

dermdoc said:

---

I am not Jacob. Covenant changed with Jesus.

---

I believe Jesus said that not one dot of the law would be removed. God will not permit one party to sit and the other stand.

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I am not Jacob. Covenant changed with Jesus.

---

I believe Jesus said that not one dot of the law would be removed. God will not permit one party to sit and the other stand.

---

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. There is a new covenant praise God.

dermdoc said:

---

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I am not Jacob. Covenant changed with Jesus.

---

I believe Jesus said that not one dot of the law would be removed. God will not permit one party to sit and the other stand.

---

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. There is a new covenant praise God.

---

So should everyone just throw away the OT?

I think I will stick to Old covenant where the Angel redeems and I don't have to get weird and get covered in blood and perform cannibalism.

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

codker92 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

I am not Jacob. Covenant changed with Jesus.

---

I believe Jesus said that not one dot of the law would be removed. God will not permit one party to sit and the other stand.

---

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. There is a new covenant praise God.

---

So should everyone just throw away the OT?

I think I will stick to Old covenant where the Angel redeems and I don't have to get weird and get covered in blood and perform cannibalism.

---

I will trust in the blood of Christ.

Have a good night.