Bishops from across the world are meeting in Rome over the next two year at the Synod on Syondality subtitled, "Communion, Participation, and Mission."

Earlier Pope Francis wrote to New Ways Ministry to encourage them and to thank them for their "neighborly work" with the LGBTQ Catholic community. Now it seems, after initially caving into pressure from some other groups, the Synod has apologized for deleting a video about their outreach efforts for our Catholic brothers and sisters.

Make no mistake - this is a good thing for many Catholics who feel shut out from mother church. Dialogue is an important first step.

First step to what? What is your vision for the Church in the future for those are LGBT?

Sounds like good news for LGBTQ Catholics.

The willful participation of and endorsement of homosexuality is against the Gospel. Period.

It is heresy to teach otherwise.

There is no teaching in the Apostolic (Catholic / Orthodox) faith regarding sodomy except -
it is a violation of the human person, and thus of Christ in whose image the Logos created humankind.

There have been many activists such as James Martin. Their lies, often crouched in "dialogue" and "tolerance", will fall.

Christ endures. Worship only Him in the Sacraments, giving all forms of lust to the Suffering Savior.

PabloSerna said:

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Bishops from across the world are meeting in Rome over the next two year at the Synod on Syondality subtitled, "Communion, Participation, and Mission."

Earlier Pope Francis wrote to New Ways Ministry to encourage them and to thank them for their "neighborly work" with the LGBTQ Catholic community. Now it seems, after initially caving into pressure from some other groups, the Synod has apologized for deleting a video about their outreach efforts for our Catholic brothers and sisters.

Make no mistake - this is a good thing for many Catholics who feel shut out from mother church. Dialogue is an important first step.

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This is scandal. New Ways Ministry has been repeatedly condemned for not adhering to Catholic doctrine.

TheEternalPessimist said:

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The willful participation of and endorsement of homosexuality is against the Gospel. Period.

It is heresy to teach otherwise.

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Is this founded in New or old testament scripture?

RebelE Infantry said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Bishops from across the world are meeting in Rome over the next two year at the Synod on Syondality subtitled, "Communion, Participation, and Mission."

Earlier Pope Francis wrote to New Ways Ministry to encourage them and to thank them for their "neighborly work" with the LGBTQ Catholic community. Now it seems, after initially caving into pressure from some other groups, the Synod has apologized for deleting a video about their outreach efforts for our Catholic brothers and sisters.

Make no mistake - this is a good thing for many Catholics who feel shut out from mother church. Dialogue is an important first step.

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This is scandal. New Ways Ministry has been repeatedly condemned for not adhering to Catholic doctrine.

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For added clarity, it's not that Holy Church is working with a LGBTQ ministry per se, but rather New Ways Ministry in particular (heterodox teachings).

I'm still amused that my Church has gone all Dilbert with this synod... a synod on synods. Hey, let's call a meeting to discuss a meeting!

File5 said:

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First step to what? What is your vision for the Church in the future for those are LGBT?

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my vision? This is about Christ's vision for his flock wouldn't you say?

PabloSerna said:

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File5 said:

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First step to what? What is your vision for the Church in the future for those are LGBT?

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my vision? This is about Christ's vision for his flock wouldn't you say?

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No no, that's a cheap deflection. YOU said it was a first step, so obviously you have some vision for this. What is YOUR vision or opinion on how LGBT fits into the Church?

As for Jesus' vision, I think it would be the same as what the other posters have put up and also what the Church currently teaches.

ETA: I think the current Church's position is correct: that LGBT people can be fully active members of the Church that are called to repent, just like the rest of us! It's not an us vs them. It's all of us vs. sin. Essentially I think the Church needs to more effectively communicate this policy and ensure outside bad actors aren't drowning them out with false characterizations. We need to tell our own story and not allow others to tell it.

PabloSerna said:

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Bishops from across the world are meeting in Rome over the next two year at the Synod on Syondality subtitled, "Communion, Participation, and Mission."

Earlier Pope Francis wrote to New Ways Ministry to encourage them and to thank them for their "neighborly work" with the LGBTQ Catholic community. Now it seems, after initially caving into pressure from some other groups, the Synod has apologized for deleting a video about their outreach efforts for our Catholic brothers and sisters.

Make no mistake - this is a good thing for many Catholics who feel shut out from mother church. Dialogue is an important first step.

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An important first step to what, exactly? Don't use platitudes. What do you think the Church needs to do in regards to LGBQTXYZABC?

Quote:

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LGBQTXYZABC

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In all fairness why would he answer when this makes it clear you have no interest in respectful dialogue?

Many on here suggesting otherwise, would be better off reading the preparatory document for a better understanding the planned Synod. Dialogue and inclusion of a group that is being marginalized is important. From reading comments on here, it would seem that many are closed to this idea. I am thankful that my church is not as closed minded. I have no idea what will come of this discussion and I will always be a Roman Catholic, so draw your own conclusions - but stop bickering.

Both, because they both teach the same thing.

PacifistAg said:

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Quote:

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LGBQTXYZABC

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In all fairness why would he answer when this makes it clear you have no interest in respectful dialogue?

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Exactly - not really interested in an authentic conversation - just arguing.

PabloSerna said:

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Many on here suggesting otherwise, would be better off reading the preparatory document for a better understanding the planned Synod. Dialogue and inclusion of a group that is being marginalized is important. From reading comments on here, it would seem that many are closed to this idea. I am thankful that my church is not as closed minded. I have no idea what will come of this discussion and I will always be a Roman Catholic, so draw your own conclusions - but stop bickering.

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The issue here is the Vatican giving tacit, if not explicit, approval to a group who has espoused heterodox positions on homosexuality and condemned by the CDF as well as the USCCB. Has NWM changed their positions to conform to the teachings of the Church?

Also, what is the goal? Do you expect the Church to all of a sudden approve of one of the four sins that cries to Heaven for vengeance? There are other ministries that reach out to those who struggle with same sex attraction such as Courage. Why promote the one that places itself in opposition to the perennial doctrine of the Church?

PabloSerna said:

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Many on here suggesting otherwise, would be better off reading the preparatory document for a better understanding the planned Synod. Dialogue and inclusion of a group that is being marginalized is important. From reading comments on here, it would seem that many are closed to this idea. I am thankful that my church is not as closed minded. I have no idea what will come of this discussion and I will always be a Roman Catholic, so draw your own conclusions - but stop bickering.

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Thank you for the synopsis of this 44-page document. Now back to your earlier point:

"Make no mistake - this is a good thing for many Catholics who feel shut out from mother church. Dialogue is an important first step."

So I ask again - first step toward what? Not feeling shut out for the LGBT people? Ultimately approval of LGBT lifestyle by the Church? What are you hoping this synod achieves besides dialogue? Dialogue is pointless without a call to action here.

"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds." MT 11:19

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander." MT 15:19

+++

I have said this before, but it is worth repeating - If God is love and I think we can all agree that love has various forms with sacrificial love being the greatest of loves - then I want to understand what our Bishops have to say about the love between two people of the same sex. Love that is freely given and not coerced as at Sodom and Gomorrah (rape in that case).

I happen to know more than a few gay and lesbian couples personally. They are good people by every measure. I cannot for the life of me understand how God would banish them to everlasting Hell because of the love that they freely share between them. In two case, going on 30+ years. So I am interested to better understand this in the light of God's word and not my own. I, as a practicing Catholic, trust our Bishops and in particular the Bishop of Rome, Pope Francis, to engage with others and show us the way. HTH

What would the bishops have to say that has not been taught by the Church for the last 2,000 years? Do you affirm that marriage is between a man and a woman? Do you affirm that sex between two people of the same sex is gravely disordered and mortal sin? Do you think that the Church should give blessing to same sex "unions"?

People send themselves to hell by voluntary purging of love, and of Love Itself, which is a Divine Person.

This occurs gradually in many steps and in many acts, including homosexual conduct.

Reject all lust. Live by the Logos.

Your TRUST should be in God and Jesus through continually reading the Bible yourself, not listening to a group of men (who are not perfect) and telling you what to believe. Study and evaluate for yourself what YOU believe. Be a Berian!

No

I'm sorry. Did I say something wrong/incorrect? I grew up in church, but can't say I knew much other than the big stories and didn't really care. The past couple of years I feel my faith has grown stronger by doing Bible studies at our church and really examining the text. If I said something misleading, my apologies. Just wanted to encourage people to read the actual Bible more and not take others word for what a specific verse says/means.

Where's that in the Bible?

What part? Be a Berian? More just a way to say listen to what people say but always make sure it lines up with scripture, trust but verify.

In Acts 17:11
The people of Berea were more open-minded than the people of Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive God's message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true.

TxAggieGirl08 said:

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What part? Be a Berian? More just a way to say listen to what people say but always make sure it lines up with scripture, trust but verify.

In Acts 17:11
The people of Berea were more open-minded than the people of Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive God's message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true.

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It's a bit of a trick question. Don't listen to other people (who are not perfect) but trust yourself? I don't think you're meaning to say that you're perfect but that's definitely the implication. Either that or perhaps you don't think they read the Bible (at all or well)?

So sorry, most definitely not saying I'm perfect, far from actually. I just know several friends my age (28-35) who just want to be told what to believe and don't want to research and ask hard questions. They're all for the Prosperity Gospel and have a hard time believing a happily married gay couple could possibly go to hell, regardless of what the Bible says. They claim they're a Christian, but constantly take scripture out of context.

Oh and I meant to add, I should've been more clear. For those that are saved and have the Holy Spirit, we pray for discernment and knowledge, which I believe the Holy Spirit provides us. I see how saying trust yourself came across and more so talking about asking the Lord for guidance and trusting the Holy Spirit to guide us to the right decision.

There's more than a bit of irony in talking about using scripture out of context, then building an entire hermeneutical framework off of one verse.

The point I was making is that the scriptures exhort us to obey the leaders of the church and submit to their authority explicitly. It takes for granted that there are those who oversee and preside over the church, who act as teachers and shepherds, and that not everyone has that role.

It absolutely doesn't say to study and evaluate for yourself apart from the church. And for the record Acts 17:11 is referring exclusively to the OT scriptures, whether Jesus Christ was the Messiah they were awaiting, as foretold in the scriptures. I has nothing to do with "not listening to a group of men telling you what to believe" and isn't a model for how the people in the church should interact with those in authority within the church.

TxAggieGirl08 said:

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Oh and I meant to add, I should've been more clear. For those that are saved and have the Holy Spirit, we pray for discernment and knowledge, which I believe the Holy Spirit provides us. I see how saying trust yourself came across and more so talking about asking the Lord for guidance and trusting the Holy Spirit to guide us to the right decision.

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I like your posting style, it's non-combative,conversational, and you appear open to dialogue. I need to work on those personally sometimes, so thank you!

As for your points, you make some good ones. But there are many people who are Catholic, Orthodox, etc. who AREN'T just taking church leader's words for things. Yes, we agree with their teachings, but it's because we've looked into the justifications and agree with them.

This board tends to bring out only those who are very strong in their beliefs and not as wishy washy, so I would say almost everyone has put serious thought into these beliefs themselves and don't just take other people's word for it. But to your point there are a ton of people in general who do that, so we should encourage them not to be "lukewarm"

RebelE Infantry said:

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What would the bishops have to say that has not been taught by the Church for the last 2,000 years? Do you affirm that marriage is between a man and a woman? Do you affirm that sex between two people of the same sex is gravely disordered and mortal sin? Do you think that the Church should give blessing to same sex "unions"?

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Both and...

So, yes, I do see that marriage between one man and one woman is par excellence what God intended from the beginning. That said, I still recognize that the love between LGBT couples I know personally is not far from that example. Other than the ability to procreate - they have a real "love" that I cannot deny. So I ask again - is God not Love? If as Jesus says "yes" - then I want to understand how this relationship, which is not explored in the Bible - fits in God's plan for salvation.

it will be interesting. I for one am looking forward to following this Synod.

TxAggieGirl08 said:

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Your TRUST should be in God and Jesus through continually reading the Bible yourself, not listening to a group of men (who are not perfect) and telling you what to believe. Study and evaluate for yourself what YOU believe. Be a Berian!

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Doing that. I think someone else covered it. Catholics have shepherds, that by the grace of God in spite of their failings, lead us along the way. Jesus promised his church - he would never abandon it - I believe him.

PabloSerna said:

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RebelE Infantry said:

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What would the bishops have to say that has not been taught by the Church for the last 2,000 years? Do you affirm that marriage is between a man and a woman? Do you affirm that sex between two people of the same sex is gravely disordered and mortal sin? Do you think that the Church should give blessing to same sex "unions"?

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Both and...

So, yes, I do see that marriage between one man and one woman is par excellence what God intended from the beginning. That said, I still recognize that the love between LGBT couples I know personally is not far from that example. Other than the ability to procreate - they have a real "love" that I cannot deny. So I ask again - is God not Love? If as Jesus says "yes" - then I want to understand how this relationship, which is not explored in the Bible - fits in God's plan for salvation.

it will be interesting. I for one am looking forward to following this Synod.

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Kind of a big issue given that the primary end of marriage is the procreation and education of children, wouldn't you say?

I also note that you didn't answer the rest of the questions that I posed.