Curious about the R&Ps thoughts on the verse below when Jesus responded to James and John's request to sit at His right and left hand in His glory. Does anyone have a recommended commentary on to whom this honor was bestowed? Who do you think Jesus was speaking about?

Quote:

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Jesus said to James and John:

"but to sit at my right hand or at my left is not for me to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared."

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My thought is that the Blessed Mother would be on His right being the rightful place of the Queen Mother in the Davidic Kingdom and the fact that it was already prepared for a specific person. Mary is the only one who I would think could be worthy of this honor. On his left would God the Father since Jesus sits at the Right hand of the power of God.

This is something that I have been reflecting on over the past couple of weeks but I'm not sure I know of any good discussions or resources on this. Thoughts?

Just out of curiosity, why do you say that any particular location is the "rightful place of the Queen Mother in the Davidic Kingdom"? I'm not aware of any historical or contemporary sources even mentioning the rightful place of the Queen Mother, or even the role of a Queen Mother for that matter, in the time of the Davidic kingdom.

The Blessed Virgin Mary:
QUEEN MOTHER OF THE NEW DAVIDIC KINGDOM

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"Luke 1:28
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king's mother, and she sat down on his right. 1 Kings 2:19

The title Gebirah (Gebira), meaning "Great Lady" or "Queen Mother" was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel, but limited to those Queens who were mothers of kings in the line of King David. When the monarchy divided into the two kingdoms of Judah in the south and Israel in the north, the institution of the Gebirah was not practiced in the Northern Kingdom of Israel. The Northern Kingdom was ruled by 9 ruling houses (dynasties) but Judah continued to be ruled by the House of David.
The royal kings of Israel and the House of David had many wives and no single wife of the king had the influence that his mother enjoyed as the chief confidant of her son. It is not clear exactly what position of authority was accorded the mothers of the kings of Israel/ Judah, but scholars believe that Queen mothers of the ruling House of David were crowned, occupied a throne next to their sons, and that both state and religious functions required their presence and attention. There is evidence from other kingdoms in antiquity that the queen mother was the most highly placed person in the kingdom next to the king [i.e. in Egypt, in the Hittite Empire, etc.]. We do know from Scripture that these women exercised their influence from the time their sons ascended the throne and sometimes even into the reign of their grandsons as in the case of Maacah in 1 Kings 15 during the reign of her grandson Asa. It is significant that every mother of a Davidic king is listed along with her son in Sacred Scripture. The name of each Davidic Queen Mother is given in the introduction to each reign of the Davidic Kings of Judah [i.e. 1 Kings 14:21; 15:9-10; 22:42; 2 Kings 12:2; 14:2; 15:2; 15:33; 18:2; 21:2; 21:19; 22:1; 23:31; 23:36; 24:8; 24:18; also see the Chart of the Kings and Queen Mothers of Judah].



Here is a good outline of the general concept of the Queen Mother

The Queen Mother tradition is straight from the Old Testament and was quite significant. It began with King Solomon when he brought a throne for his mother to sit at his right hand, the place of honor and authority. When a new King of Judah was announced it normally identified his mother alongside the new King. While the king may have many wives, he only has one mother and therefore she was given a throne as the Queen Mother, and she shared in his reign and advocated on behalf of the people. She was an intercessor of sorts.

Good article linked here:
https://edwardsri.com/2014/12/27/is-marys-queenship-biblical/



ETA: jrico2727 beat me to it with probably better info.

Thanks for the info, guys. Very interesting, and especially to see it from y'all's perspective.

In orthodox iconography it is the Theotokos as queen mother and St John the Forerunner. The prophet was also a feature of the Davidic throne, and St John is the spiritual return of St Elias who is the paradigmatic prophet.

Thanks! Do you know of any good commentaries or discussions from an Orthodox perspective? Of all the prophets, John would seem most likely so I could easily get on board with the Baptizer and Forerunner.

Nope, just know the icon like this



And that every single Orthodox Church has four icons on the iconostasis. Three are the same - Theotokos, Christ, St John - and the fourth is the patron of that church.

I kind of assume it is the 'beloved disciple.' Curious myself, hope to find out one day!

The irony of this thread

What's the irony?

A bunch of Christians asking who will sit at Jesus' sides when Jesus chastised the apostles for asking who will sit at his sides

Yeah, yeah, they were specifically requesting to be sitting at his side, but Jesus' response was pretty candidly "don't worry about it"

Could be groups of people. Doesn't necessarily have to be only two individuals

NM

Interesting. Very well could be.

Don't think St Dismas and the other were doing much sitting.

His "enthronement" is in seen in Daniel. It's at the Ascension.

Zobel said:

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Don't think St Dismas and the other were doing much sitting.

His "enthronement" is in seen in Daniel. It's at the Ascension.

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Fair enough. I'm sure you are correct. Thanks.

Sorry man I didn't mean it as a rebuke or anything. Just teasing a bit

ramblin_ag02 said:

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A bunch of Christians asking who will sit at Jesus' sides when Jesus chastised the apostles for asking who will sit at his sides

Yeah, yeah, they were specifically requesting to be sitting at his side, but Jesus' response was pretty candidly "don't worry about it"

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Jesus' response was not casual. It was actually kind of specific. He said it was not his to give but that it had already been decided and prepared.

The Blessed Mother seems obvious to be on his right from Scriptures and tradition in both the East and West Apostolic churches.

St. John the Baptist or Forerunner would be very plausible to sit at his left as the Orthodox Tradition portrays.

What I found interesting is that Jesus says it has already been prepared for them. This understanding fits beautifully with the Catholic understanding with regard to the Blessed Mother, particularly with her immaculate conception.

In regards to John what about the verse Jesus calls him the greatest but the first will be last in heaven?

No doubt no doubt

Zobel said:

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Sorry man I didn't mean it as a rebuke or anything. Just teasing a bit

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No worries. Didn't take it that way at all. But I appreciate the thought. I was just speculating. All good!!

We are His children, so we get to sit in the Father's lap. Better then left or right side.

What about Adam and Eve?

I have a high level of confidence that the Mother of God sits at her son's right hand. The left hand I honestly don't know but John the Forerunner would be the leading candidate I guess. Others could be the 12 Apostles, Abraham, Elijah or Moses?

I still go back to Jesus telling us he will sit at the right hand of the power of God which still makes me think of Jesus on his throne with the Father on his left and his mother on his right. One more mystery to look forward to I guess.

True true. But they did have a relationship with God first and have had the longest relationship with him. And plus Mary wasn't perfect either. My moneys on Adam and Eve cuz why not

Yukon Cornelius said:

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True true. But they did have a relationship with God first and have had the longest relationship with him. And plus Mary wasn't perfect either. My moneys on Adam and Eve cuz why not

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What makes you say Mary wasn't perfect? She was the true Arc of the Covenant as the mother of God, Jesus. There was complete enmity between her, the woman, and her seed, Jesus. I'm curious as to what Biblical or historical support you can offer for the claim that Mary was not indeed perfect.

Here.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Romans 3:23 ESV

Do you have any scriptures that say Marry was perfect and didn't need a savior?

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Here.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Romans 3:23 ESV

Do you have any scriptures that say Marry was perfect and didn't need a savior?

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And for that matter, how did she conceive James, the brother of Jesus?

Sex with Joseph I would assume.

The idea of Mary being perfect is theological problematic to say the least. The only perfect person was Christ, and he had the benefit of also being God. To say that Mary was also perfect you would need one of two things to be true. Either she had no free will and could not sin, which is contrary to all Christian teachings about Mary. Or she would have been the one person with free will that was not divine and never sinned. If so, why couldn't God just make everyone like He made Mary, with full free will but sinless? The rest of us are born into sin, live in sin, and have to struggle to imitate Jesus. It would be somewhat sadistic of God to make us struggle and suffer if He could always just make us perfect from the start.