As a Christian should we bear the faults of others?

1,471 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by diehard03
jrico2727
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I enjoy the discussions here greatly. I truly believe that most here bring their thoughts on religion, morals, and life to share with everyone and lead to a mutual growth. While I have more conservative views than a lot here, I try to post with clarity and charity. I realize I miss the mark sometimes, so I would ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone. Often we can see others sin but not our own. I thought I would share a reading from the spiritual classic the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

The Sixteenth Chapter

Bearing with the Faults of Others

UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus--perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.

If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.

If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.

If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity--adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.
dermdoc
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I like that. Thanks.
M1Buckeye
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jrico2727 said:

I enjoy the discussions here greatly. I truly believe that most here bring their thoughts on religion, morals, and life to share with everyone and lead to a mutual growth. While I have more conservative views than a lot here, I try to post with clarity and charity. I realize I miss the mark sometimes, so I would ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone. Often we can see others sin but not our own. I thought I would share a reading from the spiritual classic the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

The Sixteenth Chapter

Bearing with the Faults of Others

UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus--perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.

If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.

If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.

If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity--adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.

Thanks for sharing.

I like and prefer statements that provide scriptural evidence, such as verses, which are missing from his. He may be correct, but I believe that one who purports to share the word of God should share the word of God by pointing to scripture.
codker92
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jrico2727 said:

I enjoy the discussions here greatly. I truly believe that most here bring their thoughts on religion, morals, and life to share with everyone and lead to a mutual growth. While I have more conservative views than a lot here, I try to post with clarity and charity. I realize I miss the mark sometimes, so I would ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone. Often we can see others sin but not our own. I thought I would share a reading from the spiritual classic the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

The Sixteenth Chapter

Bearing with the Faults of Others

UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus--perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.

If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.

If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.

If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity--adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.


Bearing the faults of brothers and sisters in Christ is good. But I never recommend bearing the faults of those who subscribe to the enemy. It will lead to depression, anxiety and mental illness. Christ already bore their faults in the cross. Help unbelievers but we have no obligation to. If they try to take advantage, then leave them.
erudite
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codker92 said:

jrico2727 said:

I enjoy the discussions here greatly. I truly believe that most here bring their thoughts on religion, morals, and life to share with everyone and lead to a mutual growth. While I have more conservative views than a lot here, I try to post with clarity and charity. I realize I miss the mark sometimes, so I would ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone. Often we can see others sin but not our own. I thought I would share a reading from the spiritual classic the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

The Sixteenth Chapter

Bearing with the Faults of Others

UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus--perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.

If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.

If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.

If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity--adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.


Bearing the faults of brothers and sisters in Christ is good. But I never recommend bearing the faults of those who subscribe to the enemy. It will lead to depression, anxiety and mental illness. Christ already bore their faults in the cross. Help unbelievers but we have no obligation to. If they try to take advantage, then leave them.
Too many people believe that one must help those around them.
No, let them wallow in their own filth, content as the screaming and wailing in the madness that envelops them rebounds in the walls. Most of them don't want to be "saved" by Christianity in the first place.
My life would be so much easier if I did not get pressure to convert from "good Christians" all the time.
M1Buckeye
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erudite said:

codker92 said:

jrico2727 said:

I enjoy the discussions here greatly. I truly believe that most here bring their thoughts on religion, morals, and life to share with everyone and lead to a mutual growth. While I have more conservative views than a lot here, I try to post with clarity and charity. I realize I miss the mark sometimes, so I would ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone. Often we can see others sin but not our own. I thought I would share a reading from the spiritual classic the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

The Sixteenth Chapter

Bearing with the Faults of Others

UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus--perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.

If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.

If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.

If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity--adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.


Bearing the faults of brothers and sisters in Christ is good. But I never recommend bearing the faults of those who subscribe to the enemy. It will lead to depression, anxiety and mental illness. Christ already bore their faults in the cross. Help unbelievers but we have no obligation to. If they try to take advantage, then leave them.
Too many people believe that one must help those around them.
No, let them wallow in their own filth, content as the screaming and wailing in the madness that envelops them rebounds in the walls. Most of them don't want to be "saved" by Christianity in the first place.
My life would be so much easier if I did not get pressure to convert from "good Christians" all the time.


You seem like a real sweetheart.
erudite
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M1Buckeye said:

erudite said:

codker92 said:

jrico2727 said:

I enjoy the discussions here greatly. I truly believe that most here bring their thoughts on religion, morals, and life to share with everyone and lead to a mutual growth. While I have more conservative views than a lot here, I try to post with clarity and charity. I realize I miss the mark sometimes, so I would ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone. Often we can see others sin but not our own. I thought I would share a reading from the spiritual classic the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.

The Sixteenth Chapter

Bearing with the Faults of Others

UNTIL God ordains otherwise, a man ought to bear patiently whatever he cannot correct in himself and in others. Consider it better thus--perhaps to try your patience and to test you, for without such patience and trial your merits are of little account. Nevertheless, under such difficulties you should pray that God will consent to help you bear them calmly.

If, after being admonished once or twice, a person does not amend, do not argue with him but commit the whole matter to God that His will and honor may be furthered in all His servants, for God knows well how to turn evil to good. Try to bear patiently with the defects and infirmities of others, whatever they may be, because you also have many a fault which others must endure.

If you cannot make yourself what you would wish to be, how can you bend others to your will? We want them to be perfect, yet we do not correct our own faults. We wish them to be severely corrected, yet we will not correct ourselves. Their great liberty displeases us, yet we would not be denied what we ask. We would have them bound by laws, yet we will allow ourselves to be restrained in nothing. Hence, it is clear how seldom we think of others as we do of ourselves.

If all were perfect, what should we have to suffer from others for God's sake? But God has so ordained, that we may learn to bear with one another's burdens, for there is no man without fault, no man without burden, no man sufficient to himself nor wise enough. Hence we must support one another, console one another, mutually help, counsel, and advise, for the measure of every man's virtue is best revealed in time of adversity--adversity that does not weaken a man but rather shows what he is.


Bearing the faults of brothers and sisters in Christ is good. But I never recommend bearing the faults of those who subscribe to the enemy. It will lead to depression, anxiety and mental illness. Christ already bore their faults in the cross. Help unbelievers but we have no obligation to. If they try to take advantage, then leave them.
Too many people believe that one must help those around them.
No, let them wallow in their own filth, content as the screaming and wailing in the madness that envelops them rebounds in the walls. Most of them don't want to be "saved" by Christianity in the first place.
My life would be so much easier if I did not get pressure to convert from "good Christians" all the time.


You seem like a real sweetheart.
Considering how some of the Asian churches go out of their way to pressure you, you would be surprised.
Chinese/Korean Christians are the worst in my opinion. They claim to guide you to Christ but pressure you to "donate" massive amounts of money to achieve salvation when it is not in their doctrine. At least the LDS is truthful about the 10% tithe.
I have never seen a "proper" American church aside from the televangelists almost threaten people if they do not tithe. Such an action would run contrary to the tenet to Christianity no?
M1Buckeye
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There is no such thing as paying for salvation. God isn't interested in anyone's money. Jesus told us what we must do and never did Jesus say that we must financially support a ministry.

There is a hotter place in Hell for such preachers.
jrico2727
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The Lord rewards a generous heart.
To be a just you must give to God what is expected. To belong to the Church is to be part of the body of Christ, and what is good for the body is good for the members. To be true to whatever vocation you may have have you need to be generous with your time and talents as well as treasure. For all things come from God and nothing is truly your own, nor will you bring it with you.
With that being said, many take advantage of these truths. From the health and wealth gospel types to Judas chastising the woman who anointed our Lord's feet with oil. As a Catholic my only way to have a "vote" is with my pocket book. But give what you can to what you feel is right, give glory to Christ in all things. Your reward comes not from what you give, or what you do, but for the love of Christ you performed, giving alms it yourself.
M1Buckeye
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jrico2727 said:

The Lord rewards a generous heart.
To be a just you must give to God what is expected. To belong to the Church is to be part of the body of Christ, and what is good for the body is good for the members. To be true to whatever vocation you may have have you need to be generous with your time and talents as well as treasure. For all things come from God and nothing is truly your own, nor will you bring it with you.
With that being said, many take advantage of these truths. From the health and wealth gospel types to Judas chastising the woman who anointed our Lord's feet with oil. As a Catholic my only way to have a "vote" is with my pocket book. But give what you can to what you feel is right, give glory to Christ in all things. Your reward comes not from what you give, or what you do, but for the love of Christ you performed, giving alms it yourself.


Great post. Thank you.
erudite
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I am well aware of that. I have read up on much of the theology behind Christianity out of curiosity when I was in elementary as a hobby.Still, some ideals seem utterly bizarre and illogical to me (Hypostatic union is a good one).Then again, I hold probably equally alien views to Christans.
I especially think the rise and subsequent decline of the Church of the East (Nestorian) is a very interesting timeline.

Edit: This reminds me of a great question once poised.
Is the power of god(s) greater than the power of the emperor?
M1Buckeye
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erudite said:

I am well aware of that. I have read up on much of the theology behind Christianity out of curiosity when I was in elementary as a hobby.Still, some ideals seem utterly bizarre and illogical to me (Hypostatic union is a good one).Then again, I hold probably equally alien views to Christans.
I especially think the rise and subsequent decline of the Church of the East (Nestorian) is a very interesting timeline.

Edit: This reminds me of a great question once poised.
Is the power of god(s) greater than the power of the emperor?



Yes.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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Quote:

Colossians 1:24

The Preeminence of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by[f] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authoritiesall things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation[g] under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Paul's Ministry to the Church
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29 For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.
What could possibly be lacking in Christ's afflictions? Did the Passion and death of Christ on the cross not act as a complete and full propitiation of the sins of the world?

I think the answers to these questions are directly responsive to the OP's comments about "suffering" the faults of others.
BluHorseShu
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M1Buckeye said:

There is no such thing as paying for salvation. God isn't interested in anyone's money. Jesus told us what we must do and never did Jesus say that we must financially support a ministry.

There is a hotter place in Hell for such preachers.
Supporting scripture please …(you know, for consistency)
diehard03
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Quote:

I like and prefer statements that provide scriptural evidence, such as verses, which are missing from his. He may be correct, but I believe that one who purports to share the word of God should share the word of God by pointing to scripture.

I don't know man. Seems to clearly grounded in Scripture from where I sit.

And I do mean this with all sincerity - if you cannot see the Scripture in the post, then some reflection on how one internalizes Scripture might be in order. I think if we require a reference or some sort of lead in 'as the writer of Hebrews says...", then we might be missing the point entirely.
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