What exactly does "conceived by the Holy Spirit" mean? Did he form Jesus' body ex nihilo? Or was it a mixture of that and Mary similar to natural conceptions?

Maybe more appropriate in a 'Lighten Up' thread. . . but, made me think of this.

Not sure, but in Genesis God spoke things into existence...

Thaddeus73 said:

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Not sure, but in Genesis God spoke things into existence...

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. . Just as he spoke his body and blood into existence under the accidents of bread and wine at the Last Supper.

I don't know the answer to the question but it seems like it probably has something to do with the purpose of the Incarnation. Theosis baby!!! Could God the Holy Spirit spirate flesh from nothing? Sure. Wasn't man created originally created ex nihilo.

Mary is the new Eve and Jesus the new Adam.

The text does not seem to imply ex nihilo at all

And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."

And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"
And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holythe Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God." And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.
Luke 1:30-38

Ex nihilo doesn't seem implied by "conceived in your womb" or "the power of the the Most High will overshadow you"

The Westminster Confession of Faith takes the position that Jesus' man nature comes from being physically the son of Mary. Ex nihilo seems to imply Mary is just a surrogate mother.

XUSCR said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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Not sure, but in Genesis God spoke things into existence...

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. . Just as he spoke his body and blood into existence under the accidents of bread and wine at the Last Supper.

I don't know the answer to the question but it seems like it probably has something to do with the purpose of the Incarnation. Theosis baby!!! Could God the Holy Spirit spirate flesh from nothing? Sure. Wasn't man created originally created ex nihilo.

Mary is the new Eve and Jesus the new Adam.

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Man was not created ex nihilo. He was formed from the dust and God breathed life into him.

Interesting question, but I'm with Pro Sandy. Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man. "of" meaning of their substance.

WLC Q37: How did Christ, being the Son of God, become man?
A37: Christ the Son of God became man, by taking to himself a true body, and a reasonable soul,[1] being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance, and born of her,[2] yet without sin.[3]

1. John 1:14; Matt. 26:38
2. Luke 1:27, 31, 35, 42; Gal. 4:4
3. Heb. 4:15; 7:26

The whole "Spirit came upon her" is something we see when the power of God allows people to perform miracles. In Numbers 11 the elders of Israel prophesied, same with Balaam in Numbers 24. Othniel became a unbeatable warrier in Judges 3, later it comes upon Jepthath and Sampson. The phrase is repeated often, and it always means the same thing, more or less. The Spirit acts with the person to do something miraculous, whether it be prophesying, gaining great strength, or getting pregnant as a virgin.

I think the mechanics of how the Spirit allow Mary to become pregnant is a mystery. Just like we don't know exactly how the Spirit lets people prophesy, heal or gain superhuman strength. We just know that the Spirit comes upon them and these things happen. I think trying to figure out if was crafted from Mary's biological tissue is looking at the situation the wrong way. When it comes to miraculous happenings of the Spirit, it is no greater thing to turn dust into a person that to turn Mary's flesh into an embryonic Jesus. Regardless of which it was, she carried, nutured, and mothered him both before and after his birth. Her body sustained him. She was his mother in every possible way. I guess I just don't see why it matters.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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XUSCR said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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Not sure, but in Genesis God spoke things into existence...

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. . Just as he spoke his body and blood into existence under the accidents of bread and wine at the Last Supper.

I don't know the answer to the question but it seems like it probably has something to do with the purpose of the Incarnation. Theosis baby!!! Could God the Holy Spirit spirate flesh from nothing? Sure. Wasn't man created originally created ex nihilo.

Mary is the new Eve and Jesus the new Adam.

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Man was not created ex nihilo. He was formed from the dust and God breathed life into him.

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So only the original act of creation of the universe is ex nihilo? Otherwise everything is created out of something?

Perhaps it would be better to say the original "insoulment" of Adam was ex nihilo ...

Just as the ark of the Covenant bore the Presence of God in the time of ancient Israel, so Mary bore God in the New Covenant. She is the Living Ark of the New Covenant. This upholds the Deity of Christ; as the original ark bore the Presence of God, so Mary truly bore God Himself in her virginal womb.

[Borrowed from a source other than myself]. The Holy Spirit inspired St. Luke to portray Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant in his Gospel. In Luke 1:35, the angel Gabriel tells Mary "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you." "Overshadow" here comes from the Greek word "episkiasei", which denotes a bright cloud of glory. It is used in reference to the cloud at the transfiguration of Jesus (Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7. Luke 9:34). This cloud is none other than the Shekinah Glory, the visible Presence of God in the Hebrew Scriptures, which dwelt in the Holy of Holies above the ark of the covenant (Exodus 24:15-16, 40:34-38, 1 Kings 8:10).

The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures made two centuries before Christ, uses "episkiasei" in Exodus 40:34-35, to describe the Shekhinah's overshadowing of the Temple. Saint Luke, who was quite familiar with the Septuagint, uses the very same word for the Spirit's overshadowing of Mary! The angel Gabriel clearly drew a parallel between God's presence in the Sanctuary and in Mary. She is the new, living Ark chosen to bear the God-Messiah.

St. Luke also draws a parallel between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant in the account of the Visitation (Luke 1:39-52). Compare it to 2 Samuel 6:4-16, where David tries to bring the original Ark into Jerusalem. Both the ark and Mary are on a journey. David dances before the ark; John leaps in his mother's womb. David says "How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?" (2 Sa 6:9); Elizabeth says "Who am I, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Lk 1:43). The ark stayed in the house of Obededom for three months (2 Sa 6:11); Mary stayed in Elizabeth's house for three months (Lk 1:56)

The two passages are clearly parallel. The Holy Spirit inspired Luke to draw this parallel, to show that Mary is the New Ark, chosen to bear God. The Ark was a sacred vessel which bore the Divine Presence, Mary is a holy woman who bears the Lord God.

Finally, just before the vision of the New Eve in Revelations 12, we read "and the temple of God saw opened in heaven, and there was seen the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail" (11:19). Now remember; the Bible was not written in chapter and verse; that was added in the twelfth century AD. When John penned these words, there was no division between chapters 11 and 12; he wrote about one right after another as a continuous thought. The appearance of the Ark here immediately precedes the appearance of the Woman, the Mother of the Christ Child; and we saw above that the Woman is Mary. This also indicates a relationship between the Ark and Mary.