The Magnificat

1,613 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by booboo91
Fightin TX Aggie
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Reading Luke 1 tonight, I'm struck by how utterly Jewish Mary's "Magnificat" is - the poetry she speaks when her cousin Elizabeth greets her, and she is overwhelmed by the certainty of what the angel previously told her. She runts in praise but also some Old Testament style thanksgiving for God's justice. It's grace and justice all in one, much like her Son would be.

But even more, isn't it interesting that only the gentile, Luke, records this. I wonder if his investigation led him to hear these words directly from Mary herself.
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Sapper Redux
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The poetry is nice. Much of the language of the Bible, especially the King James translation, is beautiful. But odds are very strong that Luke didn't write the gospel and Mary wasn't quoted.
Martin Q. Blank
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When it comes to faith and God, I'm all about odds.
Sapper Redux
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Martin Q. Blank said:

When it comes to faith and God, I'm all about odds.


We get it. You will never budge no matter how much evidence is presented that disputes a biblical claim.
DirtDiver
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Quote:

But odds are very strong that Luke didn't write the gospel and Mary wasn't quote.
We get it. You will never budge no matter how much evidence is presented that disputes a biblical claim.

What makes the odds strong that Luke didn't write the gospel? Who are the odds in favor of?
Thaddeus73
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Mary's Magnificat and the Canticle of Hannah from the OT are very similar...

Mary's Magnificat and Hannah's Canticle
Pro Sandy
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I like what John Piper had to say about it.

Quote:

The parallels are not word for word; neither Mary nor Luke is quoting the Old Testament. Instead it seems to me that Mary is so steeped in Scripture that when she breaks out in praise, the words that come naturally to her lips are the words of Scripture. Being a young woman, she probably loved the stories of the Old Testament women of faith like Sarah, Deborah, Hannah, Ruth, and Abigail.


In praying and worshiping God, women often times have much to teach us men.
Thaddeus73
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The only person (other than Jesus) in the entire Bible who says that she will be called blessed...
Zobel
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And other than Shakespeare's "bedazzled" my favorite hapax logomenon: Kecharitomene
swimmerbabe11
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I'm more of a fan of the Mimsy Borogroves myself
Thaddeus73
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k2aggie07 said:

And other than Shakespeare's "bedazzled" my favorite hapax logomenon: Kecharitomene
Right - "You who have been filled with grace." Mary was holy BEFORE the incarnation of Christ in her sacred womb.
7thGenTexan
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Thaddeus73 said:

The only person (other than Jesus) in the entire Bible who says that she will be called blessed...


So the sermon on the mount wasn't recorded in the Bible?
Pro Sandy
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Thaddeus73 said:

The only person (other than Jesus) in the entire Bible who says that she will be called blessed...
God said to Balaam, "You shall not go with them. You shall not curse the people, for they are blessed."
-Numbers 22:12

Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
-Psalm 32:1

Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you, and therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him.
-Isaiah 30:18

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
-Matthew 5:3-11

Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
-John 20:29
booboo91
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DirtDiver said:


Quote:

What makes the odds strong that Luke didn't write the gospel? Who are the odds in favor of?

I agree! Dr. Watson Who then? Based on what evidence? Show us the hard evidence.

1) The truth of the matter is the evidence that exists is on our side. On the Christian side. Our faith was very important to us so we kept track of it. We documented it. From our perspective, this was about the most important event ever, so folks do not want to lie. They were so convinced they died for it. People do not knowingly die for lie. Something that they know is not true.

2) If you look at Bible NT and Tradition (Oral Tradition) and writings of the early church fathers shows us:

  • St. Paul was writing in early 50s about Jesus being God and all the disciples involved in the early church. This is a huge time date stamp- that negates the myth argument. ballpark 20 years later, this is a huge quality filter. IN SHORT ST. PAUL CRUSHES your Arguments. St. Paul early on reaffirms what is written in the Gospels.

  • Paul mentions Luke (disciple) in many areas: Colossians 4:14, 2 Timothy 4:11, Philemon 24 and Luke mentions Peter and Paul all through the Acts of the Apostles (Part 2 of Gospel of Luke). The dots are connected from multiple sources and then reaffirmed by the early church fathers. This is Not like the book of Mormon (one source, with no timedate stamp points)

  • From these documents we know Virgin Mary was around the church- she was around after the Resurrection. Mary was with the apostles and disciples-Pentecost, At the cross given to John the apostle (note- this also helps negate Mary having other biological children). And it makes logical sense, the disciples would want to know more about their Lord and Savor, so they would ask Mary about her son.

  • Interesting tidbits in St. Luke's Gospel on the early years twice in Luke- it says this- Luke 2 19 " and Mary kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart" .... Luke 2 51 and his mother kept all these things in her heart.
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