This is from Shane Claiborne's FB page, announcing a PBS special being televised tonight. I wanted to share in case anyone would be interested in watching.

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Tonight PBS is hosting a special called "Armed in America," which looks at the national crisis of gun violence.

It raises some great questions like: Is gun violence a "pro-life" issue? Is gun violence an issue the faith community should take a stand on? Can we be pro-life and pro-gun?

The whole project is incredible, and I had the honor of being one of the panelists, alongside some of my heroes (and a few folks I disagree with, but still love with the love of the Lord ; ).

So here's the scoop.

At 8pm, PBS will premiere the powerful film The Armor of Light. The town hall discussion on Faith and Guns will follow the film -- and it was something special. I even sang a little country music song, and -- yes -- I did manage to sneak on stage with a plow made from an AK47 with RAWtools, Inc. which I bust out at the end!!!

I hope you will join the conversation... and even more importantly, I hope you will join the movement to end gun violence.

For those in the Philly area, we will be hosting a LIVE screening tonight (free and open to all) from 8pm-10pm at The Simple Way:

3234 Potter Street
Philadelphia, PA 19134
Don't miss it.

You can see a few sneak previews here:
http://www.pbs.org/armed-in-america/town-halls/faith-guns/

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I'll probably record this. I support second amendment rights but I do think this is a worthy topic to consider.

It is an interesting topic.

So, for instance, we have an armed officer in our lobby, but post 30.07 signs.

Is this more / less Christian than:

1) Not having a police officer, and keeping the 30.07?
2) Not having a police officer, and taking down the 30.07?

Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

I miss my gun safe. All I have with me now is a lonely Remington 1100.

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I miss my gun safe. All I have with me now is a lonely Remington 1100.

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p****

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Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

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A tenuous assertion

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Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

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A tenuous assertion

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Really? Why do people put police officers in banks or fancy jewelery stores ? Why do people have bodyguards? Armed guards for armored cars? When the Mayor vows to clean up down town why is the first step to beef up police presence?

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Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

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A tenuous assertion

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Really? Why do people put police officers in banks or fancy jewelery stores ? Why do people have bodyguards? Armed guards for armored cars? When the Mayor vows to clean up down town why is the first step to beef up police presence?

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I sure hope this isn't actually your full understanding of this issue.

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Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

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A tenuous assertion

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Really? Why do people put police officers in banks or fancy jewelery stores ? Why do people have bodyguards? Armed guards for armored cars? When the Mayor vows to clean up down town why is the first step to beef up police presence?

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I sure hope this isn't actually your full understanding of this issue.

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Of course a list of 4 examples is not my full understanding of the issue; I was interested in knowing why "armed people decrease crime" is a tenuous assertion.

Not sure if anyone watched the program, but Shane Claiborne had brought a garden tool that RAWTools had made out of an AK-47. I will be posting more information on it as the date gets closer, but on Sept 9, my church in Katy will be hosting a RAWTools event if anyone will be interested in coming by. I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

As I said, I will have more information as the date gets closer, but felt that this was an appropriate thread to bring it up.

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Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

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A tenuous assertion

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Really? Why do people put police officers in banks or fancy jewelery stores ? Why do people have bodyguards? Armed guards for armored cars? When the Mayor vows to clean up down town why is the first step to beef up police presence?

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Bustup and Funky in agreement?? Mark it down folks, probably won't happen again in our lifetimes...

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Armed people decrease crime. We need more of them

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Damn. I agree with you too...

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I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

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I will swap you a rake and shovel for the AK and pistol. I'll also donate a second shovel and rake to a tool shed of your choosing.

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Not sure if anyone watched the program, but Shane Claiborne had brought a garden tool that RAWTools had made out of an AK-47. I will be posting more information on it as the date gets closer, but on Sept 9, my church in Katy will be hosting a RAWTools event if anyone will be interested in coming by. I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

As I said, I will have more information as the date gets closer, but felt that this was an appropriate thread to bring it up.

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Can they be converted back? Good info for when the feds come for our guns.

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Of course a list of 4 examples is not my full understanding of the issue; I was interested in knowing why "armed people decrease crime" is a tenuous assertion.

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It is difficult to arm responsible people without arming a few irresponsible people. Are we safer when every few American household contains a small arsenal? I have no interest in taking a position on that question in this thread other than to say that I think a reasonable argument could be made that the gun obsessed nature of American culture comes with a few consequences. Its not the bustup arsenal or the funky arsenal I'm worried about. There are a lot of irresponsible people that own guns.

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I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

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I will swap you a rake and shovel for the AK and pistol. I'll also donate a second shovel and rake to a tool shed of your choosing.

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Nah, I'd rather turn them into something useful.

It's very difficult to disarm irresponsible and criminal people so policy directed at this inevitably disarms responsible law abiding people making us far less safe

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I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

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I will swap you a rake and shovel for the AK and pistol. I'll also donate a second shovel and rake to a tool shed of your choosing.

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Nah, I'd rather turn them into something useful.

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The AK and pistol are very useful. . . if your goal is to kill other human beings.

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I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

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I will swap you a rake and shovel for the AK and pistol. I'll also donate a second shovel and rake to a tool shed of your choosing.

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Nah, I'd rather turn them into something useful.

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The AK and pistol are very useful. . . if your goal is to defend yourself and your family.

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FIFY

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It's very difficult to disarm irresponsible and criminal people so policy directed at this inevitably disarms responsible law abiding people making us far less safe

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I think that is a bit oversimplified. Its difficult, in part, to disarm certain certain people because of the accessibility of guns. The suggestion that disarmament inevitably leads to us being less safe is completely hilarious. . . as demonstrated by every single other Western or non-third world country on the planet.

I think you are taking a very hard line, but I think you have to admit that this is not a black and white issue. And it certainly isn't an all-or-nothing issue. Any suggestion of gun control seems to elicit fears that the "gobern'ment is gonna come and take all our guns away".

Like I said, I'm not worried about the guy who keeps a pistol in a safe location for home protection or the guy with a few shotguns or rifles that he uses for hunting. I'm all for the right to own guns for these people.

Every country that has disarmed it's people has seen an immediate increase in crime before resuming their long term trend toward lower crime. America has no experienced this unnecessary increase in crime that gun bans cause and have continuously seen our homocide and violence rates decrease all the while buying more guns than ever. I see no reason to interrupt our progress toward lower violence levels with a gun ban.

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Every country that has disarmed it's people has seen an immediate increase in crime before resuming their long term trend toward lower crime. America has no experienced this unnecessary increase in crime that gun bans cause and have continuously seen our homocide and violence rates decrease all the while buying more guns than ever. I see no reason to interrupt our progress toward lower violence levels with a gun ban.

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The decreased rates in violent crimes is pretty much universal in 'the West' regardless of gun control standards, which may, in part, support your position. Either way, I don't see gun control regulation as being related, in any direct way, to the decline in violent crimes.

Out of curiosity, what are the disarmament examples you mentioned above?

Australia and the U.K. Both saw spikes in homocides after major gun legislation. Sad they interrupted their downward trend to pass strict gun regulation. They got a lot of people murdered for no reason

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I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

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I will swap you a rake and shovel for the AK and pistol. I'll also donate a second shovel and rake to a tool shed of your choosing.

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Nah, I'd rather turn them into something useful.

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The AK and pistol are very useful. . . if your goal is to kill other human beings.

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True.

We can focus on the gun ban in the UK to paint a moderately rosy picture... but why does no one ever discuss the success of the gun ban in Mexico?

Oh, wait...

BTW, I'm absolutely opposed to any gun ban. What I long for is, at the very least, a constructive dialogue on the issue. Virtually any time the subject comes up, it is discussed in purely political terms. I think there's a discussion to be had that doesn't even touch upon the politics of it, and I think that's where people from both sides can come together. But, as long as it's always presented in political terms, constructive dialogue will be smothered. This is a great example of the dialogue that I would hope would occur within the church. It's from the person who filmed Armor of Light.

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BTW, I'm absolutely opposed to any gun ban. What I long for is, at the very least, a constructive dialogue on the issue. Virtually any time the subject comes up, it is discussed in purely political terms.

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I think very few people are opposed to a full ban. One of the problems I have with the dialogue is the distortion of any argument favoring higher regulation with a plea for total disarmament. Favoring stricter registration of firearms, for example, does not equate to wanting the feds to storm your house, steal your guns, and melt them down into chains for your enslavement.

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Not sure if anyone watched the program, but Shane Claiborne had brought a garden tool that RAWTools had made out of an AK-47. I will be posting more information on it as the date gets closer, but on Sept 9, my church in Katy will be hosting a RAWTools event if anyone will be interested in coming by. I actually have an AK-47 and a pistol that will be converted into a garden tool then.

As I said, I will have more information as the date gets closer, but felt that this was an appropriate thread to bring it up.

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Give the guns to me and I'll give you a couple of garden tools. I promise the guns will be no more of a threat in my hands than the garden tools will be in yours.

EDIT: Just saw that AggieRain beat me to it.

After all the guns are gone what's next? Knives and hammers? Cars?

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After all the guns are gone what's next? Knives and hammers? Cars?

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Whisky...beer???

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Favoring stricter registration of firearms, for example, does not equate to wanting the feds to storm your house, steal your guns, and melt them down into chains for your enslavement.

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But it does require ceding my right to privacy, which is why I oppose it...

I don't know that the number of guns is the issue. I think American culture glorifies violence which leads to a casual attitude toward taking lives. Even non-violent people seem to have no qualms watching intensely violent action movies with their children but would be aghast if a naked breast showed up on screen.

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I don't know that the number of guns is the issue. I think American culture glorifies violence which leads to a casual attitude toward taking lives. Even non-violent people seem to have no qualms watching intensely violent action movies with their children but would be aghast if a naked breast showed up on screen.

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This is true. Movies, television, and video games should be cleaned up. Less violence and less objectification in these media would both be net positives for our culture.

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Favoring stricter registration of firearms, for example, does not equate to wanting the feds to storm your house, steal your guns, and melt them down into chains for your enslavement.

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But it does require ceding my right to privacy, which is why I oppose it...

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How so? We register our cars, trucks, and boats and subject them to inspections. We require licenses to drive, to drive certain vehicles, to act in certain professional capacities.

It seems that registration for firearm ownership would be no more yielding of privacy or power than damn near anything else we do, no?