Should I sell my career's soul?

3,192 Views | 32 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Jacques
Post removed:
by user
747Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
Has anyone made a similar decision? How did it go?
Somewhat. I'm still working in the same industry, but I did leave a great job and awesome community of friends in Washington (state) to move back to Texas to be nearer to family. My current job has fewer opportunities to advance and at the same time, does not fully match my skills and talents as did my previous job. Company culture is worse as well. On the personal side, I have made some good friends in the area, however I haven't had the same level of connectedness with these friends as I have with those I left back in WA.

All this to say, it depends on your priorities. Our priorities at the time centered around family (blood is thicker than water etc..). However, my priorities seem fluid at times, especially on a bad work day. Sometimes, I seriously consider relocating back to WA. My wife has commented that life at home is better overall when I come home happy (I try not to bring home my work, but I'm also the kind of guy that wears his emotions on his sleeve).

My current advice would be to work in the field/place that excites and energizes you. Quality of life and happiness go beyond financial compensation. What gives you a sense of awe and wonder? (As I write this, I am realizing that this is one of the things missing in my current job.)
BustUpAChiffarobe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
This isn't really a standard forum topic but I figured I'd get y'all's opinions on something. I've been thinking about turning my career path towards quantative analysis in finance. It's practical, and you can make ~3 ****loads of money annually. It also sounds unfulfilling, taxing, unstable, and intellectually draining (for a few reasons). On the other hand, being a research slave sounds challenging and engaging, but it doesn't pay nearly as well.

Essentially it's a classic "do what you love" vs. "take the money" debate. I think over the long run the earnings difference in careers would be between $2-5 million dollars. That's not exact, but it's a good guess at the order of magnitude. I could do a lot of stuff with a few million dollars, and so could my kids. That might be enough for a good robot butler/chef in a few decades.

Has anyone made a similar decision? How did it go?
take the money and do what you love when you retire. Money doesn't buy happiness, but I'd rather be rich and miserable than poor and miserable.
Woody2006
How long do you want to ignore this user?
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-suicidal-occupations-2011-10?op=1

You'll be statistically more likely to kill yourself if you take the quant job.
Post removed:
by user
Woody2006
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I tend to agree with 747... if you can find a job that excites and motivates you, you'll be much happier with your life than simply accumulating extra dollars. It's all about maximizing your quality of life. Money obviously plays a large role there, but if you can get paid to do something you actually enjoy doing rather than simply showing up for the money you will be much happier with your life.

If tweaking algorithms to try to beat the thousands of other guys tweaking their algorithms to beat you sounds fun, then go for it.
SoulSlaveAG2005
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I took a 50% pay cut to go into a completely non degree related career. It doesn't have the upqard mobility as the other job, but it has a lot better work life balance. I'm not concerned about being rich, I think you can be happy and comfortable, and content with your lot in life. It took some attitude adjustment is still a work in progress when I see the bank account, but bills are paid, food is on the shelf, saving enough for retirement and we are almost debt free... Plus I get to spend a lot of time with my family and I work in a field that is contributing positively to society as opposed to just making money. ( nothing wrong with making money, it's just not a big priority)

Do something you enjoy , take care of your finances and be a good steward for your family.
AGC
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Making lots of money, or significantly more than the area average, in a job you don't feel challenged in is extremely unrewarding. I've had a few jobs like that and it reached the point that I came home unhappy every day and wondered if it would ever change. I felt very much like 747. My wife pushed me to quit even though it would have meant more budgeting and sacrifice. It doesn't just drain you, it's everyone that sees you regularly too because your attitude is different. Doing it a few years with an end goal is one thing but for a career it sucks.
BustUpAChiffarobe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I tell you what man, sometimes Biggie had it right, more money more problems. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to trade my spot with a guy in the warehouse. All he has to do is assemble 200 or so valves a day. He's in great shape from lifting stuff and being on his feet all day, they've got loud rock music bumping on the speakers, when he goes home from work, he's done and doesn't have to worry about anything. Sure he only makes like $16/hr, but there are times I long for the simpler days.
schmendeler
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Do the other one for a while and then switch back. Why is it all or nothing?
booboo91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
My 2 cents:

Don't be a wimp- Go take risks- go live your life with no regrets. But do your homework first.

1) Look at Grief to Money Ratio.
2) Look to see if company is meat grinder. How long do people stay?
3) Financially- Slow and steady typically win race (compared to those who are jumping to a new job every 2 years). People who are patient advance in their career.


Post removed:
by user
Star Wars Memes Only
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If you're wanting to be a quant you're either getting your PhD in physics or at the very least a masters in financial engineering. If you decide to stick it out and get your PhD, and you're really good, and your real passion lies in academia, you might as well stick it out. You might be making six figures before you're 40. Maybe. If you're exceptional That said, from my personal point of view, I would not recommend a PhD in physics. I'm probably a year and a half from finishing, however I don't intend to finish at this point.

A PhD in physics requires a grueling amount of work. In your first year, if you want to do well, every week is at least an 80 hour week. During exam time/qual time your workload can be 100+ hours/week. You will probably spend 9-10 hours a week in class. In addition to that, you will probably get somewhere between 12 and 20 homework questions per week. The amount of homework this actually is is horrific. I simply could not do it on my own. Easy questions are 1-2 hour questions. Difficult questions are 20+ hour questions. Solving some of these questions gives you a solution that somebody is famous for initially finding. While it's certainly a gratifying feeling to solve a question like that it comes at a huge cost. You don't have much time for friends. You don't have much time for family. You don't have much time to progress your life in any other aspect. If I had to estimate, if I was to honestly do all of that homework I would have probably spent 120 hours every week. The general strategy is to divide and conquer, but still to understand everything that is going on is still a 40-60 hour commitment. In addition to that, you will be teaching a course. You will have to prepare a small lecture. You will have to grade labs (which, if you do it right is probably 5-10 hours/week). You will need to have office hours. At UH, I also have to commit a few hours a week to the physics tutoring center. All in all, it's a very time-consuming process. For all of this you get a whopping 2,000/month.

Once you pass your quals, things become a bit easier. You start working on a project of your own. Depending on who your advisor is, your time commitment will vary, but 80 hour weeks are still not out of the question. Your salary, however, does not change much. All in all you will probably spend 5-6 years on this process. All of a sudden, you're 28+ years old. Your friends, if you still have any outside the physics department, are lawyers. Doctors. Pharmacists. Successful salesmen. They're making money. They're starting to have families. They're settling down and buying houses of their own. You're in school making 2000ish per month. You don't have the time or money for a family. You don't really have much time for friends, and you certainly don't have a comparable amount of money to spend doing the kind of things they're doing. Wanting to grow personally when you haven't had the opportunity to do that in many years becomes a big deal.

And after you get your PhD? You become a post doc. You can have a PhD in physics, be a full-time researcher, and make as little as 25000 dollars per year. I have heard of folks being post-docs for 10 years and not getting that elusive associate professorship. If you're exceptional, though, you might get the professorship. Eventually. Of course, there are people who decide to go a different route. I know a guy who got his PhD in QCD (what I'm doing...*gulp*) who wants to be a quant which is quite a competitive field as well. Currently he's working at Best Buy. I know a guy who started a thesis three times. The first time he got scooped. The second time his advisor died and he had to start over. After having to start a third time he said **** it. He now works for some chemical engineering company and seems much happier.

My advice to you is to really evaluate what you want. I can't speak to how you feel, but as an undergrad a lot of these things didn't seem to matter to me very much. Hell, it even sounded kind of romantic to zealously pursue truth, knowledge, science for little compensation. However, things other than physics eventually started mattering more and more to me. Even if you're absolutely sure that physics is what you want to do, consider that their their is no knowledge you can get from a formal university education that you can't get with the right set of books, a computation pad, a pencil, and a computer so that you can visit the appropriate forums to ask your questions. What a formal university education makes easier is that it gives you the time to spend with those books, teaches you a bit about the publishing process, and gets you a piece of paper that says you're a doctor. Aside from the last one, if you look in the right places you can do all of this without a PhD. While that will still be a major time commitment, at least you won't have to set the rest of your life on hold. It will be at your pace.

Personally, I ended up finding a wonderful woman. I have a kid now. I do my research at UH, and I teach at HCC. I'm still not able to provide the kind of life for my family that I would like. I have decided that I want my daughter and wife to not worry about money. Not worry about the future. I'd like to be able to put my daughter through college eventually. I want to progress in other aspects of my life. To further those goals I have started studying for actuarial work. This is along the lines of what I do, as it's quite mathematical. Getting in is not as hard as getting into quantitative finance. I'm really hoping (atheists can hope too!) that this field works out. I'm hoping that I have a job before this semester is over. From my research into the field I believe that I should. I've passed the first two exams. With my masters degree I should be well qualified for an entry-level position, which pays pretty decently (certainly a lot better than what I get now). This is the route I've chosen to go. I hope that one day I can get my PhD in physics, however I would like to get other aspects of my life in order first. I would like to buy a nice home for my family. A dog. Perhaps a toy for myself. Maybe I can finally get that Harley I've been eyeing for years. Note, even if I did not have a wife and kid I would probably be going this route. There are parts of me that have been dormant for years now that are yearning to grow.

Anyway, I feel like I've rambled quite a bit. Let's address your questions directly. Once you get your bachelors you'll have a few options. If you decide you want to be a quant, go the financial engineering route. If you decide to stick it out and get your PhD in physics you'll have the option of either going into academia or going into quantitative finance. But that too is a very competitive field, and you should have a second option lined up if you don't go into academia for the aforementioned reasons. A third option you might consider is starting a career right after your bachelors. If I may be so bold, if you're interested in a quantitative finance career you might want to check out actuarial careers as well. The standard for entry isn't quite so high, and the pay is quite competitive as well. I've seen actuaries make as much as $600,000/year+. This is of course a bit outside the norm, but $250,000 is well within your reach after 10 years of work. While pure quants might make somewhat more you also probably have to work twice as much. Just something possibly worth considering.

So, if you were just asking me for my advice I'd say don't get your PhD. Don't pursue a career in academia unless you're willing to put everything else in your life off. And even if you're willing to do that at this point, consider if you'll feel the same way in several years. Seriously ponder that question. The things that mattered to me have changed in the last five years. As someone with a bachelors in physics you will have skills that can transfer over to other careers that you might enjoy, and might be worth researching before you make your final decision. I hope that sharing my experience has helped somewhat in your future decisions. Whatever you decide, best of luck!
Star Wars Memes Only
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Also, if you're planning on getting your PhD, make sure you've seen all of Star Trek and start reading phdcomics. These are prerequisites.
BustUpAChiffarobe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Drink a lot of beer, be charming, go into sales, get rich
Star Wars Memes Only
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Here's a few relevant comics:









AggieRain
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I did not finish my doctorate. I will probably be ABD for the rest of my life (I was very close). Fluvial geomorphology was my field. The reason I officially bailed is that my advisor took a position across the country. That was true, but in reality I also flat burned out...

I met a girl (took her to the premiere of Serenity...which was awesome)...found happiness...currently, I'm a consulting scientist. It is actually quite lucrative...more so than most jobs in academia. Doesn't hurt that I also have an uber-successful wife and plenty of family interests in the Eagle Ford.

A part of me one day wants to actually hold that doctorate, but only on my own terms from this point forward...for now, I will just have to be satisfied with a happy life, great wife, happy kids, and fantastic scotch...
Duncan Idaho
How long do you want to ignore this user?
My only two bits of advice

30-40 years is a long time to do something you hate.

There will NEVER be enough money.. I remember a time when some idiot posted on a thread saying that $250,000 a year he was making was "getting by"


Post removed:
by user
Duncan Idaho
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I'm a pretty simple guy. I have a standard of living that I don't want to be below, but I have very little desire to be much higher. My family is very well off, but we grew up in a 1 story house with 3 bedrooms for 5 people, because we didn't need the extra space. If I was making an exorbitant amount of money, I'd save a lot of it for my kids and kids' kids. I don't think that the "enough is never enough" rule will apply in my life. That's not how I grew up.


My point was after you make enough to not worry where your next meal will come from, money has very little impact on your satisfaction in life.

You aren't considering being a street performer or a doctor. You are struggling with 2 careers with bright futures.
If the choice is between making a crapton of money and being miserable or making a comfortable living and being able to find enough meaning in your work to have the emotional energy to remain happy/content in your family /religious/ social life, forgo the wealth.

There was a great post on the business board about a guy whose father chased dollars all his life and found himself on the back side of 60 with a son that he didn't know
BustUpAChiffarobe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
My only two bits of advice

30-40 years is a long time to do something you hate.

There will NEVER be enough money.. I remember a time when some idiot posted on a thread saying that $250,000 a year he was making was "getting by"





IIRC I was saying that $250k/year isn't "snorting coke off strippers" rich like most people think.
Woody2006
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
quote:
My only two bits of advice

30-40 years is a long time to do something you hate.

There will NEVER be enough money.. I remember a time when some idiot posted on a thread saying that $250,000 a year he was making was "getting by"





IIRC I was saying that $250k/year isn't "snorting coke off strippers" rich like most people think.
Especially if you're intent on siring a litter of kids large enough to field a baseball team.
schmendeler
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RangerRick9211
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RangerRick9211
How long do you want to ignore this user?
You could have a normal job and write algos as a hobby. That's what I do.
LondonOllie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Jacques
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The summer before I started law school I had serious questions about this.

I saw the price tag, realized I didn't really know what I was getting into and wondered if I didn't just want to pass on it and be a teacher.

There are times I love my job and get excited about it.

But to this day I don't know if I made the right choice.

You've got a family, so it's a different analysis for you. Kids cost a lot of money. And you need a home.

I don't. And I don't.

What I would say is this: Your career can define you. It doesn't have to. But it can. You could be whatever and be defined by what you do outside your career and what you do for a living. But you're going to spend 40 waking hours a week or more at your job. And it's hard for that not to define your life. You bring it home. You miss things.

If there's one thing that pushes me to thinking I made a mistake it's that my career has defined me more than I want it to, and I've let things important in my life slip because of it.
Post removed:
by user
Jacques
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quote:
I definitely don't have kids (that I know of). I should have mentioned that. All references to kids were references to hypothetical future kids. Thanks for your perspective though, I appreciate it.
I would consider that.

There was a time I thought I'd get married and have them. And now I can't imagine having them. Maybe I'll regret that later. But I don't right now.

That's got to be a big consideration. You give **** up for kids. Dreams. Hobbies. Stuff you want to do.
Post removed:
by user
Jacques
How long do you want to ignore this user?
You're probably going to have kids. Maybe you make the decision then as to what to do with your life.

There's actually a great episode of the wonder years like this. Kevin goes to work with his dad to see what he does. His dad's job sucks. He always wondered why his dad was in such a bad mood at night. And he learned that day.

The interesting thing is that his dad took the job to provide for his family.But it in many ways ruined his relationship with them.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.