Who are the Shriners?


The Shriners are an organization of 32nd degree or York Rite Masons who are best known for their red fezzes, little motor cars and circus parades. The Shrine is also known for its hospitals and other philanthropic activities. Masons call the Shrine the "playground of Freemasonry." Most of the public is unaware of the fact that all Shriners are Master Masons (but not all Masons are Shriners).

Like the previous Masonic degrees, candidates for the Shrine are initiated with a solemn religious ceremony at the local Mosque (the Islamic gathering place of the Shrine). All candidates, including Christians, must swear an oath to Allah on the Koran declaring that they would be worthy of having their eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-inch blade, their feet flayed, and forced to walk the hot sands of the sterile shores of the Red Sea, where the flaming sun shall strike them with a livid plague, rather than to violate their Shriner Masonic oath.

The Shriners and the Masons

TexaAg...errr Thad

Why does the Catholic Church attack any group, even charitable ones that don't bow down and kiss your churches rear???

This is a great organization and I doubt they have any evil intent with those little fezzes and tiny cars. This absurd and pointless obsession you and your church have towards masons is silly and for you to be spreading this silliness only shows that your faith is holding you back and retarding your ability to accept and move one. If anything ever destroys the power of your church it will come out of members who are sick and tired of the nonsense and bureaucracy that has invaded your faith and puts dogma over people's well being. The Schisms that caused the Protestant movement were bourne out of this and if the Catholic Church wants to remain and paranoid and backward minded group then they can move into History and be gone in time.

Losman- The Catholic Church will be around to the end of time. Deal with it...

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Losman- The Catholic Church will be around to the end of time. Deal with it...

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Funny....the late Harding Lawrence said EXACTLY the same thing about Braniff.

Losman has a point, Thad. (I can call you Thad, can't I?) You are free to eat fish on Fridays, engage in venerating Mary until your eyes turn red, and play bingo at the church to your heart's content while in other parts of the world, orphans and homeless children are squeezed for their pennies in order to buy golden candlesticks for the Vatican. None of us protestants et al are going to pitch a fit (other than an occasional snide remark) about your actions.

So.....why is it that you cannot go a single day without attacking some non-Catholic group?

If you MUST find someone to attack, make it someone worthwhile. Mormons, for instance.

Yes, the Shriners are a bunch of silly old farts who drive little bitty cars in parades and have meaningless mysterious stemple ceremonies. Oh well.

They also operate exceptional hospitals for crippled and burned children and never....never issue a bill for the services rendered.

I have a 17 yr old son who was one of a set of 26 week twins. Due to some outrageously severe postnatal complications, he was left afflicted with a badass case of cerebral palsy.

I made decent wages as an Army Captain and my wife taught school...which won't make anyone wealthy but we were far from destitute. We had free military health care plue my wife and kids were on a civilian health plan thru her school. That being said....all the specialists we consulted with said "see if the Shriners can take him, because they are cutting edge with this stuff."

The Shriners took him and by age 2 he was walking and while traveling to go to the hospital was a pain, having a child with CP who nobody else could help finally start walking on his own (and fairly well) was a blessing. And while we could have paid, and felt like we should have paid something...no bill for services was ever rendered. (We made a healthy donation to the Shriners, though)

BTW I don't really believe all that about golden candlesticks and worship of graven images and idols in the Catholic church...I was exaggerating a bit to try and make you see just how silly you come across to many of us out here in internet land. With you it's Catholic good, everyone else bad --- and hoss, life is far from that simple.

You may be totally sure you have it all figured out and possess the only truth....but I would admonish you not to be so sure. Betting on things metaphysical and supernatural is about like betting on college football. Just when you take the Ags and the points against OU, we get beat 77-0. When you take the Ags and give the points to Baylor, our guys figure out a way to get beat. (Granted, Fran helped a lot.)

In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash is a pretty good way to do business. But when you trust God, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't retain a healthy skepticism of the church, the Pope, Vicars, Cardinals, Priests, Ministers, various Biblical translations, and all other things that have had human involvement.

Another really good motto is "Jesus Saves, but Moses Invests" but I'll save that one for another day.

Seriously 73, again.

I'll write more later but the Shrine is just a social arm of Freemasonry. It was created in the 1890's by a group of actors. There are many of us (Masons that is) who have nothing productive to say about the organization because it is just fluff - there isn't anything of substance for you to get upset about. (but you will no doubt find something on the intertron, or from "reputable" Christian website, or just make it up).

Regardless of what I think about their purpose and place in Masonry anyone who attacks their charitable outreach is an idiot. The Shrine burn centers are some of the finest medical facilities on the planet and THEY DO NOT BILL the families of the children they help!


edit spelling


[This message has been edited by Samsill98 (edited 7/19/2008 3:51p).]

They're Masons. Really? So is my father-in-law, and my boss.

Anyone willing to point a finger at them should be willing to shoulder the expense of running those hospitals, or else shut up.

So why do the Shriners take their oath at a mosque to Allah, which is the point of the post?

Always fun to see the anti Catholic bigots come out when a simple post about another organization is posted.

And Braniff is not, and never has been, anything like the Catholic Church....

Thad

You're the one showing any kind of Bigoted gesture, you attack a group that has done so much good for the community merely because of a ritual they may use as part of their initiation. I would imagine most Shriners are Christian or believe in God, I doubt these men are Muslim.

Thad. we are not burning your churches or feeding your flocks to lions but your church does use guilt and shame to attack those who are gay, use contraception or wish to preach but are female.

what about the Royal Order of the Racoons?

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And Braniff is not, and never has been, anything like the Catholic Church....

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Oh really? A large bureaucracy scattered among multiuple continents.....led by a very strong, very charismatic boss who wielded pretty much absolute control (although to the best of my knowledge the Pope never dumped a wife in order to run off with a shapely young female advertising agency employee). Many of Braniff's female flight attendants could be as mean and surly as the nuns at Catholic school who beat the hands of recalcitrant students with rulers....and the male flight attendants very well could have had a penchant for young boys.

Both entities were especially strong in Latin American countries (Catholic Church, Inc because of the Europeans who brought Catholicism with them.....Braniff because they bought Panagra - who had an extensive route network there.)

Both outfits were notorious for style - the Catholic Church with some really nifty cathedrals and such and Braniff with multicolored planes....some by Calder and/or Salvador Dali. (Of course, the Catholics also did business with prominent artists like Michelangelo.) Nuns habits certainly made a fashion statement, as did Braniff's female flight attendant uniforms by Emilio Pucci...the space helmet might have been over the top. Then again, so were those airplane looking headgear things that nuns wore ie Sally Field on "The Flying Nun." The nuns in "Sound of Music" also had some rather interesting millinery going on.

The Catholic Church firmly believes that the host, once consecrated, becomes the body of Jesus. Braniff Intl firmly believed that glop, once the foil was removed and it was placed on a tray table in front of a passenger, transubstantiated in to an elegant meal.

Thus I have to confess (no pun intended) that Braniff and the Catholic Church are much more alike than you would care to admit. However, the Catholics have much better cash flow and a whole lot better debt-to-equity ratio than Braniff ever enjoyed.

[This message has been edited by TxAgKuwait (edited 7/19/2008 5:09p).]

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your church does use guilt and shame to attack those who are gay

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we had a little scandal, maybe you've heard of it? we're just distancing ourselves from gays, in fact i hear more hate about gays from protestants than Catholics

thad i appreciate your post, and if you guys think that everyone that does charitable work is all "holy under God" than you need to wake up out of your naivete, chill out with the hate, he posted an article and you guys attack him as if he was condoning a hate crime, he posted it and y'all have nothing constructive to say except for a bunch of recriminations, give me a break.

He's Catholic, they're masons, it's as old as time, forgive him if he has a little "healthy skepticism," as someone put it, about the nature of the organization. Frankly i think anyone who calls themselves christian who swears to allah is a hypocrite, that's what we should be addressing, not a hijacked thread with a bunch of venom spewed around.

Look - I've performed good works before. We all have. Does that mean that we aren't above scrutiny and criticism? The Masons do perform many good works, no doubt. I never said that they didn't.

There sure are a lot of reactionaries on this board, and very few who actually can discuss and debate issues without making stupid comments like Braniff = the Catholic Church, truly the dumbest thing that has been posted on this board in a long, long, time.

Back on topic, as one studies the internal workings of the Masons it becomes very clear why Catholics can't be Masons. Being Catholic and being Muslim is not compatible, as Allah does not have a son named Jesus Christ. Taking a blood curdling oath to be have yourself tortured and killed is also incompatible with scripture....

What is interesting about this thread is that it starts with the accusation that one of the Shriner rituals is questionable.

Then it went the "hey, they do good works so they are cool" route.

Yes, the Shiners wear neat hats and do some great charity work, a given, OK?

But, does anyone know about the ritual that was mentioned in the initial post?

Could we actually talk about that since it was the topic/content of the thread's genesis?

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 7/19/2008 8:08p).]

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Like the previous Masonic degrees, candidates for the Shrine are initiated with a solemn religious ceremony at the local Mosque (the Islamic gathering place of the Shrine). All candidates, including Christians, must swear an oath to Allah on the Koran declaring that they would be worthy of having their eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-inch blade, their feet flayed, and forced to walk the hot sands of the sterile shores of the Red Sea, where the flaming sun shall strike them with a livid plague, rather than to violate their Shriner Masonic oath.

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Do you have a link for this or is this something you heard?

opk- I posted the link on the original post.

Does anyone know if it's true or not? John Salza, whose website I got it from, is a former Mason, so I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.

Their fez certainly looks Islamic...



[This message has been edited by Thaddeus73 (edited 7/19/2008 8:44p).]

Thaddeus73:

That website's url is http://www.scripturecatholic.com so I wouldn't exactly call it an unbiased source. As far as the person who "knows what he's talking about", it sounds to me like he has an axe to grind.

What is described in the quoted text sounds bogus to me. Although I'm a Mason but not a Shriner, I know that Masonry does not require anyone to swear on a bible that is contrary to his belief, nor is the Koran used as described above. What there is is a lot of symbolism, much like that in college Greek fraternities. It does not preach against or attempt to convert from or to any religion. Those claims are bogus.

Some of the symbolism of Masonry/Shrine harks back to ancient Egypt. The "mosque" in question most likely was the Masonic Temple itself, their own meeting place which is referred to as a mosque, but is not a Muslim Mosque.

I have known many outstanding Christian clergymen who were Masons. IMO, the Catholic Church's problem with Masonry stems from it's secretive nature along with the irrational fear that it promotes teachings that are contrary to those of the church. Not so.

Perhaps someone on the board who is a Shriner can enlighten us further.

You may be right, but the secret oath to have oneself tortured and slaughtered if you reveal the secret words and handshakes goes against James 5:12.

And IMHO, your secret initiation rite where you resurrect the dead Egyptian Hiram Abif who was murdered for not revealing the Masonic secret word to his co-workers mocks the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Regarding the fez: My father was not a Shriner, but he and his lodge brothers wore fezzes at all their meetings. It was a lodge affiliated with the Church.

It was not Masonic. More like Knights of COlumbus.


[This message has been edited by primrose (edited 7/19/2008 9:41p).]

Perhaps we have a muslim poster who would like to comment on whether or not the fez looks Islamic?

I've never seen a picture or heard of a Muslim wearing anything like this.

Thaddeus73: "opk- I posted the link on the original post.

Does anyone know if it's true or not? John Salza, whose website I got it from, is a former Mason, so I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.

Their fez certainly looks Islamic..."



= = = = = = = = = = = = =

According to Wiki it originated in Greece and was an item of apparel in the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century.


Thaddeus73: The name escapes me but the FEZ is familiar.



.....sorry


[This message has been edited by opk (edited 7/19/2008 10:33p).]

GROANER!!

I think North Africans wore them. Remember the guy in 'Casablanca'?

But the Evzones wear them to this day. And their uniforms were taken from the national dress of the Greeks. Especially in Central Greece.
My father dressed this way as a young man herding his families goats up and down Mt. Oeta, where Heracles funeral pyre was, according to myth.

The cotton one in summer and the woolen one in winter. They are supposed to have been adapted and come down from the Chitons worn by the ancient Greeks.

The Evzones have a woolen uniform for winter, too.

[This message has been edited by primrose (edited 7/19/2008 10:46p).]

I wasn't talking about the hat itself. I was talking about the crescent moon and the scimitar on the hat.

Kudos to the Shriners for all of the good works and free medical care they do. The post was only about the weird secret oath they take to have themselves tortured and murdered if they reveal their secrets, and the fact that they do it in a mosque.

Here is a link I found about their meeting hall, which I think they call a mosque.

http://www.abashrine.com/

Here is a link which expains their emblem...
http://www.shrinersokc.org/
The Emblem
The Crescent was adopted as the Jewel of the Order. Though any materials can be used in forming the Crescent, the most valuable are the claws of a Royal Bengal Tiger, united at their base in a gold setting. In the center is the head of a sphinx, and on the back are a pyramid, an urn and a star. The Jewel bears the Arabic motto "Kuwat wa Ghadab," which means "Strength and Fury."Today, the Shrine emblem includes a scimitar from which the crescent hangs, and a five pointed star beneath the head of the sphinx.

Fleming took the ideas supplied by Florence and converted them into what would be comethe Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine (A.A.O.N.M.S.). While there is some question about the origin of the Fraternity's name, it is probably more than coincidence that its initials, rearranged, spell out the words "A MASON."

The more I read about it, the more it sounds like every little boys club I've ever heard of.

My cousins, all boys, had a club that was so darkly mysterious that nothing could be told sbout who went there or what they did there.

THe only thing we knew about it was that the meetings were held at "Dinosaur Lake". We lived in the middle of Houston. No lakes, ponds,etc. anywhere around.

When you couldn't find someone, they were at Dinosaur Lake. Only it didn't take but a few minutes for them to be summoned. Many years later I found out that Dinosaur Lake was a vacant lot about three blocks from my house.

By then, we were grown and I guess the statute of limitations on the bloody penalties for telling had run out.

This reminds me of that.

Primrose - I would agree if it weren't for the oaths on the Koran and/or Bible.

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The post was only about the weird secret oath they take to have themselves tortured and murdered if they reveal their secrets

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You mean like the oaths the Knights of Columbus members take?

Thaddeus73: The Shriners are actually a pretty benign group.

Here's a report on a group you can focus on next.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Christian_Identity.asp?xpicked=4&item=Christian_ID

TexAg73: WOW. JUST WOW.

Back to one of my original comments....

If a group isn't kissing the rear of the Catholic Church and giving them money they have to be up to no good in Thad's eyes.

If anyone should be offended by the Shriners (and I don's think anyone outside some of the goofy anti-Masonic goups of our history and present is offended), it is the Turks/Ottmans/Moors/Greeks/Islamics whose traditions may have been the influence for some of the Masonic rituals/traditions. Every group or body derives its rituals and symbolism from earlier groups and bodies. Just cause a certain sect teaches that a social group is somehow in conflict with the said religious sect just don't make it so.

Thaddeux73: Since you enjoy bogus oaths so much, here's one them for the Knights of Columbus:

[EDIT] For those who don't read too well, aren't perceptive, or just plain don't pay attention:

THE THREAD POSTED BELOW IS BOGUS BOGUS BOGUS.

OH, by the way: IT'S BOGUS


http://www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm

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"I DO FURTHER PROMISE AND DECLARE THAT I WILL, WHEN OPPORTUNITY PRESENTS, MAKE AND WAGE RELENTLESS WAR, SECRETLY AND OPENLY, AGAINST ALL HERETICS, PROTESTANTS AND MASONS, AS I AM DIRECTED TO DO TO EXTIRPATE THEM FROM THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH; AND THAT I WILL SPARE NEITHER AGE, SEX, OR CONDITION, AND THAT I WILL HANG, BURN, WASTE, BOIL, FLAY, STRANGLE AND BURY ALIVE THESE INFAMOUS HERETICS; RIP UP THE STOMACHS AND WOMBS OF THEIR WOMEN AND CRUSH THEIR INFANT'S HEADS AGAINST THE WALLS IN ORDER TO ANNIHILATE THEIR EXECRABLY RACE. THAT WHEN THE SAME CANNOT BE DONE OPENLY, I WILL SECRETLY USE THE POISONOUS CUP, THE STRANGULATION CORD, THE STEEL PONIARD, OR THE LEADEN BULLET, REGARDLESS OF THE HONOR, RANK, DIGNITY, OR AUTHORITY OF THE PERSONS WHATEVER MAY BE THEIR CONDITION IN LIFE, EITHER PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, AS I AT ANY TIME MAY BE DIRECTED SO TO DO BY ANY AGENT OF THE POPE OR SUPERIOR OF THE........

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This above BOGUS post is no more valid than the purported Shriner post above

Nice, huh? Of course it's bogus, but you get the idea. Give your anti-Mason, anti-Shrine, campaign here a rest. It doesn't reflect well on you.



[This message has been edited by opk (edited 7/22/2008 11:10a).]

opk - If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the posted Shriner oath is totally bogus and false. Is that correct?

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You mean like the oaths the Knights of Columbus members take?

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Royal Flush - I'm not KofC - What oath is that?

I don't know what the hell their oath is, its "secret".

But you obviously has no problem with them since they are a catholic organization.

Wow, If that's the K of C oath, let me back up and say my dad's lodge was nothing like that. Their aim was to become real Americans while still honoring and helping their motherland when that was needed, as in WW's I and II , or earthquakes, etc.They conducted their meetings in broken English with dictionaries in one hand and Robert,s Rules of Order in the other.
God bless them all. This was going on all over the country as it was a national lodge.

Sorry. I see opk said it was bogus.

[This message has been edited by primrose (edited 7/20/2008 11:59a).]

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opk
posted 9:46a, 07/20/08



Thaddeus73: The Shriners are actually a pretty benign group.

Here's a report on a group you can focus on next.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Christian_Identity.asp?xpicked=4&item=Christian_ID

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Everyone should read this. Especially those of us Christians who wonder how the radical Islamists have become so prevalent in their religion that they drown out the voices of those who do not hold to their interpretations of the Koran, _ (includes me)

Maybe it started out something like this.

It completely nauseated me.