How bad is popular music today?

2,708 Views | 42 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by TresPuertas
AGinHI
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tl;dr - does music today suck, or what? What are some good bands/musicians/songs?

We've been in California going on nine years, first residing in a liberal urban county with seemingly more diversity than Hawaii than on to a more rural conservative county.

In those nine years I have attended more gymnastics, wrestling, track and field, and cross country events than I can remember, throughout southern, central, and coastal California middle schools and high schools. The latest activity I'm now beginning to attend is my daughter's cheer.

And at all these events throughout diverse areas of California, 90% of all music being played are tunes from when I was in high school - 80's and early 90s music.

Not only that, but I started playing bass a year ago and all of the instructors, that are half my age, listen to music I grew up listening to. In fact, two of them shared they like the music their Gen X fathers listened to.

So, I tried giving the Spotify Top 50 - USA a listen on several occasions and none of the songs I sampled seemed memorable.

I don't believe this is an issue of age, musical preference, or any sort of confirmation bias (the music played at athletic events is music from my era). Also, I was a drummer/percussionist long ago and I would say of most music - if it has a good beat I'll probably like it.

And here's one more bit of information. When we first arrived in California I worked at a juvenile prison and amongst the black and hispanic youth, several of them said they preferred older music and found today's rap, something to the effect of, boring, redundant, and uninteresting.

Rick Beato has put out some interesting videos on the changing industry, the disappearance of bands and even a video titled "The Real Reason Why Music Is Getting Worse," where he expounds on two ideas: 1) Music is too easy to make, and 2) music is too easy to consume.

One more thought while I'm at it, and this, along with everything else, especially technological advancement, suggests a decline in creativity. YouTube has allowed for a greater discovery of musical prodigies. Yet as they age into their teens and early 20's they are not creating anything new, just continuing to cover other musicians work.

So, is today's music not as good a previous generations?
VP at Pierce and Pierce
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Music is at an all time low. Music is too easy to make due to technology, often requires very little music theory understanding so people that do have a spark of creativity lack the musical training and history to make actual good music.

Rap music in particular went from its heyday in the mid 90's to early 2010s because of all the incredible music producers (Kanye West, Scott Storch, Swiss Beats, Pharrell, Mike Dean, Dr Dre, Rick Rubin, Mark Ronson) that grew up listening to incredible music in the 60's and 70's and they had some sort of education in terms of music theory and they could actually play instruments so these producers understood how music fits together. These producers also knew how to use very good songs as samples and build on that.

Today, producers literally reverse beats and think it sounds good. You can make a crappy song regardless of genre via computer and put in a catchy hook... magic!

Take Kanye West' "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" album from 2010 and compare to any album from today, it is filet vs dog food. That album was recorded with real instruments, no pro tools allowed on the recording. Today albums barely contain a real instrument.
Claude!
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I reckon that there's still plenty of great music being made today. It's just that there is so much music being made that great stuff gets lost in the noise, and popular music often represents the lowest common denominator.
AGinHI
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You bring up an interesting point with understanding music theory and what, in my mind, amounts to education and intelligence in developing musical creativity.

The first thought I had reading your comment was Steve Harris's both historic and poetic (Tennyson) inspiration in writing Iron Maiden's classic The Trooper.

And then Jagger's reading of The Master and Margarita as inspiration for Sympathy for the Devil.

Yes, a sample of two, but it's what came to mind and I'm sure there are more examples.

And then, as you mentioned at the end, there is the time, effort, and energy in learning an instrument.

I thought I would share the Beato video I mentioned above which is cued up to a brief comparison of quantized John Bonham versus his actual playing:

EclipseAg
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Also, the trend toward seven or eight writers on every song and the shift to standardized song structures to attract Spotify playlists is killing individuality and depth.
Muy
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Agree that tech has made making music too easy and while there are equally great artists out there, this ease takes away the need for everyone in a band to perform at a level required in the 70's and 80's.

Maybe it's me but music platforms have made it too easy for artists to publish music that simply sucks, and I'd guess there are way more artists today with published music than there was in the 70's and 80's.

And lastly, aside from a smaller %, are they really even "bands" anymore, or just a singer and an always rotating list of musicians performing with said artist?
Chipotlemonger
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Muy said:

And lastly, aside from a smaller %, are they really even "bands" anymore, or just a singer and an always rotating list of musicians performing with said artist?
I believe this is a short video where Beato went in depth on this very topic! Worth the watch.

TresPuertas
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this isn't just in california. if you were to walk into the Chicken at this very moment you're hearing mostly the same stuff as we listened to in 2003. it's goes over different genres. country, rock, pop, etc.

i attribute it to available technology which makes music too easy to make, but mostly to the fact that this generation leads relatively comfortable, unexciting lives and don't have much to write about.
Mega Lops
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Country bands have utilized professional song writers and session musicians for decades. That guy didn't really address that it was an accepted practice in the C&W world, but it is 100% truth. He left out country music altogether in fact. They were hiring writers to churn out one or two hit track albums many moons ago.

I totally agree that marketing solo artists is cheaper and easier, as is the advancement in music tech.

And yeah, music is crap today. But every generation thinks the next gen's music sucks. The difference is today it is actually true.
EclipseAg
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Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Lathspell
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I would agree that popular music is bad.

However, there are still great new bands playing music, you just have to search harder to find it.
Philo B 93
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There are a lot of good classic rock and blues rock bands (similar to 80s and 90s) playing music today. The problem is they aren't being subsidized by record companies hoping that one out of every 100 bands becomes a "Guns n Roses" or even smaller "Black Crowes". So these bands fall apart sooner and never tasted the success of, say, Journey or Motley Crue.

The Rick Beato video is absolutely great and on-point. I think that's the one where he mentions Generational Wealth financing a lot of up and coming artists (ie Rich parents floating their kids' dreams of becoming stars). I've seen a lot of these musicians over the years. Kids whose wealthy parents foot the bill for up to 10 years to help the kid live the dream. I know one girl whose dad offered her money for either 4 years of college or 4 years of trying to make it as a musician / actress. She's a very good bartender now.
AGinHI
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TresPuertas said:

this isn't just in california. if you were to walk into the Chicken at this very moment you're hearing mostly the same stuff as we listened to in 2003. it's goes over different genres. country, rock, pop, etc.

i attribute it to available technology which makes music too easy to make, but mostly to the fact that this generation leads relatively comfortable, unexciting lives and don't have much to write about.
That's what I was wondering about - is this just California or is it elsewhere?

Ultimately, I really just miss discovering and listening to new, good, music.

And to EclipseAg's point
Quote:

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

This makes me think of modern movies that frequently rely on older songs because of their catchy and memorable melodies and lyrics.

I used to razz my two Gen-Z boys that their music and movies sucked, secretly chalking it up to older generation thinking - but it seems I am right

Now I'm not going to derail my own thread with movie talk, and I know I'm treading on thin ice in this forum, but when it comes to film this is me

Muy
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Mega Lops said:

Country bands have utilized professional song writers and session musicians for decades. That guy didn't really address that it was an accepted practice in the C&W world, but it is 100% truth. He left out country music altogether in fact. They were hiring writers to churn out one or two hit track albums many moons ago.

I totally agree that marketing solo artists is cheaper and easier, as is the advancement in music tech.

And yeah, music is crap today. But every generation thinks the next gen's music sucks. The difference is today it is actually true.


Except this has been 20 years of mostly crap. And they have to sample music from the 80's to even make the sound distinct. I doubt any bands sample the crap from the last 15 or so years in 20 years.
Cliff.Booth
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Spotify's algorithm introduces me to a lot of new music and almost all of it is indie. I listen to these bands with GREAT songs that are getting thousands or hundreds of thousands of streams and occasionally am subjected to the recent hits that are getting hundreds of millions of streams, and I can't figure it out. There is a ton of cool music flying totally under the radar while the most corporate, bland, ****ty mainstream music gets pushed out to the masses.
javajaws
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EclipseAg said:

Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Totally agree. There is good stuff out there, but there's just so much bad crap out there its hard to find sometimes.

I highly recommend watching the Netflix show about Avicii ("I'm Tim"). This guy was a phenom when it comes to melodies. To see actual footage of him working with other artists was pretty amazing. And even though he didn't sing or play a traditional instrument he had gained enough talent in various other aspects of music making to make him well rounded enough to be a major success.

There's actually a lot of innovative stuff out there in the EDM world right now and its my genre of choice currently. And this is coming from somebody who listened to only Country music most of his life. Totally understand though that its not for everyone.
MSFC Aggie
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Someone needs to start a movement.....MMGA
EclipseAg
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This is a perfect example of the modern hit song.

Drum machines. Repetitive chord structure. Overly breathy vocals. That hip-hop lyrical style of lots of words crammed into a measure. No dynamics. No key change. No bridge. No real instruments.

If this were written and produced in the '70s or '80s, it wouldn't be a bad song. It's catchy.

But it needs to be opened up dynamically with an arrangement that has some spark and verve. To use a current artist as an example, imagine Bruno Mars performing this, with a real band behind him.

javajaws
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EclipseAg said:

This is a perfect example of the modern hit song.

Drum machines. Repetitive chord structure. Overly breathy vocals. That hip-hop lyrical style of lots of words crammed into a measure. No dynamics. No key change. No bridge. No real instruments.

If this were written and produced in the '70s or '80s, it wouldn't be a bad song. It's catchy.

But it needs to be opened up dynamically with an arrangement that has some spark and verve. To use a current artist as an example, imagine Bruno Mars performing this, with a real band behind him.


Also agree. I actually watched her Christmas special and thought it was pretty good (and funny) - it had some great singing in it. Then I listen to that song above and its just "lacking" because of all the reasons you gave.


For another A/B comparison go listen to Dua Lipa's live performance at Royal Albert Hall with a live orchestra - I thought it was pretty amazing and full of "soul". I think her music produced for radio/albums is much better than Sabrina's though...by a mile. But the live versions just have a totally different feel - more mature and "complete" from a musical perspective.
AGinHI
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EclipseAg said:

If this were written and produced in the '70s or '80s, it wouldn't be a bad song. It's catchy.


It's not even catchy. It's just blah noise, like forgettable filler perfect for your soulless elevator ride.

Another year and it will be buried in the discount bin of forgotten songs.

Unlike, say, a Bananarama whose 1983 hit Cruel Summer I still hear in movies and tv shows.

Aust Ag
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I'll add that 20 years ago on this forum, every other thread was music related. Nowadays, maybe 1/10. At best.
TXAG 05
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Aust Ag said:

I'll add that 20 years ago on this forum, every other thread was music related. Nowadays, maybe 1/10. At best.


That's true, there were always threads for new albums that had come out and stuff like that
NE PA Ag
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javajaws said:

EclipseAg said:

Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Totally agree. There is good stuff out there, but there's just so much bad crap out there its hard to find sometimes.

I highly recommend watching the Netflix show about Avicii ("I'm Tim"). This guy was a phenom when it comes to melodies. To see actual footage of him working with other artists was pretty amazing. And even though he didn't sing or play a traditional instrument he had gained enough talent in various other aspects of music making to make him well rounded enough to be a major success.

There's actually a lot of innovative stuff out there in the EDM world right now and its my genre of choice currently. And this is coming from somebody who listened to only Country music most of his life. Totally understand though that its not for everyone.


If you happen to be a Spotify subscriber, could you please make a couple of playlist recommendations for newer EDM? Or 3 or 4 artists that would send me down a nice rabbit hole? TIA
javajaws
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NE PA Ag said:

javajaws said:

EclipseAg said:

Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Totally agree. There is good stuff out there, but there's just so much bad crap out there its hard to find sometimes.

I highly recommend watching the Netflix show about Avicii ("I'm Tim"). This guy was a phenom when it comes to melodies. To see actual footage of him working with other artists was pretty amazing. And even though he didn't sing or play a traditional instrument he had gained enough talent in various other aspects of music making to make him well rounded enough to be a major success.

There's actually a lot of innovative stuff out there in the EDM world right now and its my genre of choice currently. And this is coming from somebody who listened to only Country music most of his life. Totally understand though that its not for everyone.


If you happen to be a Spotify subscriber, could you please make a couple of playlist recommendations for newer EDM? Or 3 or 4 artists that would send me down a nice rabbit hole? TIA
There's a lot of different sub-genres of EDM out there - I mainly stick to mainstream big DJ stuff, pop remixes, and club dance stuff. Not too into hard dubstep or atmospheric stuff. I use Tidal, but here's a few songs I dig right now (in no particular order). If you've never listened to any EDM give Avicii a try as well - older but a lot of his songs will stand the test of time. Same with the Tiesto/Guetta stuff that's been out forever.

Never Going Home Tonight - Guetta / Alesso
Shine on - Kaskade / Wilkinson
The Feeling - Rudimental
Stone - Andromedik
Hooligans - Steve Angelo
Lonely Heart - Alesso
CAVE - Dom Dolla
I'm Good - David Guetta / Bebe Rexha
Numb - Marshmello / Khalid
Cry Baby - Clean Bandit / Anne-Marie / Guetta
Whatever - Kygo / Ava Max
Go Back - John Summit / Sub Focus
MERTHER - Mau P


I'll also add that most EDM is bass heavy (but not obscenely heavy) - I don't find it too enjoyable listening with desktop speakers or earbuds. My home theater has 2 15" subwoofers and if the windows aren't shaking it doesn't sound right lol. I also think with the purity of a lot of digitally produced music a really good sound system really helps to appreciate the clarity of the music. Which is true for all music - but the lack of acoustic variance/soul in a lot of EDM makes it more important IMO.

I'll also add a lot of blah pop music is made that way since it is produced/engineered to be played on the lowest common denominator of listening devices - earbuds.
EclipseAg
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javajaws said:




I'll also add a lot of blah pop music is made that way since it is produced/engineered to be played on the lowest common denominator of listening devices - earbuds.
Good point ... One of the major reasons why there are so few dynamic changes in music today.
gigemags-99
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NE PA Ag said:

javajaws said:

EclipseAg said:

Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Totally agree. There is good stuff out there, but there's just so much bad crap out there its hard to find sometimes.

I highly recommend watching the Netflix show about Avicii ("I'm Tim"). This guy was a phenom when it comes to melodies. To see actual footage of him working with other artists was pretty amazing. And even though he didn't sing or play a traditional instrument he had gained enough talent in various other aspects of music making to make him well rounded enough to be a major success.

There's actually a lot of innovative stuff out there in the EDM world right now and its my genre of choice currently. And this is coming from somebody who listened to only Country music most of his life. Totally understand though that its not for everyone.


If you happen to be a Spotify subscriber, could you please make a couple of playlist recommendations for newer EDM? Or 3 or 4 artists that would send me down a nice rabbit hole? TIA


EDM?


javajaws
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gigemags-99 said:

NE PA Ag said:

javajaws said:

EclipseAg said:

Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Totally agree. There is good stuff out there, but there's just so much bad crap out there its hard to find sometimes.

I highly recommend watching the Netflix show about Avicii ("I'm Tim"). This guy was a phenom when it comes to melodies. To see actual footage of him working with other artists was pretty amazing. And even though he didn't sing or play a traditional instrument he had gained enough talent in various other aspects of music making to make him well rounded enough to be a major success.

There's actually a lot of innovative stuff out there in the EDM world right now and its my genre of choice currently. And this is coming from somebody who listened to only Country music most of his life. Totally understand though that its not for everyone.


If you happen to be a Spotify subscriber, could you please make a couple of playlist recommendations for newer EDM? Or 3 or 4 artists that would send me down a nice rabbit hole? TIA


EDM?



LOL that's pretty much what I say about hip-hop. Music opinions are like aholes - everybody has one!
Rudyjax
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It's as old as time people saying music isn't as good as it used it be.

Bruce Almighty
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Rudyjax said:

It's as old as time people saying music isn't as good as it used it be.




Maybe this time it's actually true.
Rudyjax
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Bruce Almighty said:

Rudyjax said:

It's as old as time people saying music isn't as good as it used it be.




Maybe this time it's actually true.


I don't think so. There's plenty of really good new music.

Pop music has rarely been good.
TresPuertas
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this thread started as a way to discuss how bad modern music has become and we ended up with EDM as a solution.
NE PA Ag
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javajaws said:

NE PA Ag said:

javajaws said:

EclipseAg said:

Another issue, and maybe just a personal one, but ...

I hear a lot of current songs that just don't have good melodies or any key changes or dynamics that add interest. It seems that the art of crafting a melody has been lost.

A lot of this is the reliance on producers vs. musicians and electronic tools vs. instruments.
Totally agree. There is good stuff out there, but there's just so much bad crap out there its hard to find sometimes.

I highly recommend watching the Netflix show about Avicii ("I'm Tim"). This guy was a phenom when it comes to melodies. To see actual footage of him working with other artists was pretty amazing. And even though he didn't sing or play a traditional instrument he had gained enough talent in various other aspects of music making to make him well rounded enough to be a major success.

There's actually a lot of innovative stuff out there in the EDM world right now and its my genre of choice currently. And this is coming from somebody who listened to only Country music most of his life. Totally understand though that its not for everyone.


If you happen to be a Spotify subscriber, could you please make a couple of playlist recommendations for newer EDM? Or 3 or 4 artists that would send me down a nice rabbit hole? TIA
There's a lot of different sub-genres of EDM out there - I mainly stick to mainstream big DJ stuff, pop remixes, and club dance stuff. Not too into hard dubstep or atmospheric stuff. I use Tidal, but here's a few songs I dig right now (in no particular order). If you've never listened to any EDM give Avicii a try as well - older but a lot of his songs will stand the test of time. Same with the Tiesto/Guetta stuff that's been out forever.

Never Going Home Tonight - Guetta / Alesso
Shine on - Kaskade / Wilkinson
The Feeling - Rudimental
Stone - Andromedik
Hooligans - Steve Angelo
Lonely Heart - Alesso
CAVE - Dom Dolla
I'm Good - David Guetta / Bebe Rexha
Numb - Marshmello / Khalid
Cry Baby - Clean Bandit / Anne-Marie / Guetta
Whatever - Kygo / Ava Max
Go Back - John Summit / Sub Focus
MERTHER - Mau P


I'll also add that most EDM is bass heavy (but not obscenely heavy) - I don't find it too enjoyable listening with desktop speakers or earbuds. My home theater has 2 15" subwoofers and if the windows aren't shaking it doesn't sound right lol. I also think with the purity of a lot of digitally produced music a really good sound system really helps to appreciate the clarity of the music. Which is true for all music - but the lack of acoustic variance/soul in a lot of EDM makes it more important IMO.

I'll also add a lot of blah pop music is made that way since it is produced/engineered to be played on the lowest common denominator of listening devices - earbuds.


Awesome, thanks! I am very familiar with the older artists you mentioned, I have a pretty good timeline of the genre all the way back to before it was even called EDM (back to the 80s), but not much the last 10 years or so.

As to anyone on here giving me grief about it, love of music is in the ear of the beholder. I like most genres and have my likes and dislikes within them, but I do struggle with hip hop/rap over the last 30+ years unless there's real musical/melodic quality in there and not just a beat box and rapping.
javajaws
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NE PA Ag said:


Awesome, thanks! I am very familiar with the older artists you mentioned, I have a pretty good timeline of the genre all the way back to before it was even called EDM (back to the 80s), but not much the last 10 years or so.

As to anyone on here giving me grief about it, love of music is in the ear of the beholder. I like most genres and have my likes and dislikes within them, but I do struggle with hip hop/rap over the last 30+ years unless there's real musical/melodic quality in there and not just a beat box and rapping.

I had two favorite albums when I was at A&M back in the 90s - one was a bootleg live performance of Rush (Red Stars of the Solar Federation) and the other was a Razormaid CD full of early 90s EDM.

I played drums when I was younger and I've always gravitated to listening to the MUSIC and the beat and not the vocals (lol that's why I could listen to Rush). Some people are the other way around and listen to the vocals and lyrics first and foremost.

To me, "good" means not only good music and a good beat, but also a good recording. I can't listen to overly compressed tracks - it just sounds horrible no matter what the genre is. Same with just bad quality recordings of pretty much any music. I'll listen to audiophile stuff sometimes just to listen to what a really good recording really sounds like - perfect imaging, dynamic range, clarity, everything. When you play this stuff on a $20k stereo the flaws are...distracting.

And before anyone asks...my 2.2-channel sound path (not including surround stuff) is currently Tidal connect -> Marantz AV10 -> Purifi amp -> Revel F208s + 2 Rythmik 15" subs. I use REW and Dirac to tune everything (with a MiniDSP mic) and I do have some sound treatments in my room.
ABattJudd
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I am 100% in the camp of there's too much overproduced, not-musical music out there. I gravitate pretty much only to actual bands with guitar-driven music. I've been on a huge Blackberry Smoke kick for the past year.

This is really hitting home for me in my church. I'm 45 and play guitar in our worship band, typically with a bassist who's my age, and a drummer who's about 20 years older. The guy who leads worship just turned 30 (I taught him in 7th and 9th grades). He's an amazingly talented musician, but he's of the generation where everything he listens to worship music wise is all heavily-synthesized and all sounds the same. Before he took over this role, his dad (who's also the pastor) led worship and we'd play stuff that was fairly bare-bones and straight forward.

Side rant, but it just annoys the crap out of me and feels very disingenuous.
"Well, if you can’t have a great season, at least ruin somebody else’s." - Olin Buchanan
AGinHI
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Just published by Rick Beato one hour ago - music executive reveals record labels are only looking for social media stars, people who are already famous with millions of followers and not necessarily great musicians, because they don't know how to develop and promote artists anymore.

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