Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Did I mention this was dumb?

Because it's dumb.

By constantly trying to delete history, we learn nothing from it.

Holy overreactions batman. QT better be watching his backside.

Btw, this is the same company/platform that recently stripped Elmer Fudd of his rifle, and instead thinks *this* is an appropriate replacement...

I'm going to hop up on my soapbox for a bit. My point will seem pretty grandiose relative to one streaming service taking down one movie, but the trend is the point.


I don't believe in removing or altering cultural artifacts. Preventing people from experiencing the primary sources of "problematic" history makes that history seem far more remote, which is dangerous.

When you don't get access to the perspective and artifacts of "bad people", they are dehumanized, incomprehensible, and seem to lack agency. In reality, they were mostly normal people. We humans tend to walk a razor's edge between different kinds of horrible behavior. Knowing that perfectly normal people felt not only justified but righteous in doing things that we now think are bad is an important thing to remember.

As a political independent, it's pretty easy to imagine current trends from the right or the left eventually resulting in terrible atrocities on a broad scale with the perpetrators and 40%+ of the population thinking that they are doing a great thing. Telling ourselves that we are different now and erasing evidence to the contrary makes me pretty uneasy.



Hiding Gone with the Wind certainly falls into that category of wiping away a great bit of accessible cultural history that accurately portrays how millions of Americans thought and perceived their world and their recent past. For the purposes of this post I'm pretending the GwtW is as "problematic" as HBO claims; arguing the specifics of the movie isn't really my point and it has been a very long time since I watched it.

HBO is a private company and there are plenty of other ways to get hold of the movie, so it's not the end of the world, but the trend and the thought process aren't great.

I think I can say without reservation that screenwriter John Ridley can go fornicate himself with the double-cassette VHS edition of the movie.

Irony - Hattie McDaniel made history as the first African American to be nominated and won an academy award for her role as Mammy.

Edit for YouTube link of award

So dumb

This is also reminding me of the value of hard copy media.

TriAg2010 said:

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This is also reminding me of the value of hard copy media.

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That's an excellent point. I know I have gotten away from physical media with the exception of books that I really want. Fortunately I have a I have a physical copy of GWTW (and the book, the forward to which in recent editions is an excellent read on the topic at hand).

Definitely a good idea to consider that streaming media that I "own" might not always be there.

The reactions in this thread remind me a little of a statement that ends with...

Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.

this is the company that also thinks a 6 hour Justice League movie is a good idea. Apparently it's better to look idiotic but tolerant these days instead of supporting the freedom of speech with in the arts. Hopefully they'll take down Die Hard after that with its anti-German thief message, then stop showing The Meg with its crass view of prehistoric sea predators.

Judgment at Nuremberg should be pulled for not having a single POC. We need more movies that show a correct interpretation of history. Like Overlord.

I've never actually seen this movie, but we own it. Never really had the desire to see it, but now I definitely want to watch it and will.

This move is frightening and we are entering 1984 territory. I hope everyone on here realizes that with this current wave of historical and cultural scrubbing.

I hope that we can all agree that removing history like a doctored Stalin photograph doesn't do either side any good.

This makes me think of this scene in Interstellar:


"We've replaced them with the corrected versions"

Quote:

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Definitely a good idea to consider that streaming media that I "own" might not always be there.

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So are they just going to pull non-approved editions of movies or books from something like Amazon Prime's personal video libraries? When they do that, are they going to refund the money I paid for each of those titles? Or is it going to be a f-you moment?

That's cowardice.

The movie is almost 100 years old. There is no need to remove the movie for today's delicate sensibilities.

Hell, even Disney+ has left their more "racist" older animated movies untouched with a simple warning of "outdated cultural depictions". You're telling me Disney have more balls than HBO?

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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This makes me think of this scene in Interstellar:


"We've replaced them with the corrected versions"

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I feel like we are definitely starting to head down that road.

you guys said all the things already, so I'll just +1 for the entire thread.

Ridiculous but can't say I'm surprised.

The ironic thing about Ridley is that he asked to have it taken down for a while out of respect, and in almost the same sentence said he was against censorship.
It's like people don't even know what they are for or against anymore.

FarmerJohn said:

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Judgment at Nuremberg should be pulled for not having a single POC. We need more movies that show a correct interpretation of history. Like Overlord.

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Carlo4 said:

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Irony - Hattie McDaniel made history as the first African American to be nominated and won an academy award for her role as Mammy.

Edit for YouTube link of award

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Just like the people who complain about portrayals of black people in the 3 stooges. The reality being that the Stooges were friends with the black comedian, Dudley Dickerson that was always in their films, and he was one of the first black people on TV because of their friendship with him.

TCTTS said:

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Btw, this is the same company/platform that recently stripped Elmer Fudd of his rifle, and instead thinks *this* is an appropriate replacement...

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i may be misremembering, but I believe it was the Brits that first started editing smoking out of old cartoons. i don't smoke outside the very, very occasional cigar. i don't want anyone to smoke cigarettes. but, they are altering art. that's not right.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. WB isn't editing his rifle out of old cartoons, they're just not giving him one in the *new* Looney Tunes cartoons for HBO Max. That's a screenshot from the new iteration.

awe. i had seen a dust up over the Elmer Fudd. but, i had not dug into it. assumed it was older cartoons.

The world has lost its ****ing mind

I grew up with a Uncle Remus and Little Black Sambo. In fact, they used to have restaurants like Denny's called, Sambos.


Am I allowed to say this?

Didn't they say it was going to be removed temporarily? I think the plan is to produce a short explanation of the history of the film and its depiction of slavery to go along with the movie. Seems a little ridiculous they feel the need to explain, but at least it won't be removed permanently from their library.

Who owns the rights to The Birth of a Nation? That one's pretty controversial too.

v

In all seriousness, does no one understand the purpose of art and the significance of trying to censor, distort, or remove it? Do people not understand historically what groups are inherently against art? Just because you are offended by something doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. You can choose what to consume, or not. Plenty of garbage out there that is free to exist, I find it offensive for anyone to watch a show from Chuck Lorre, but I don't have to watch it. Where is the backbone? Some art is meant to offend, to make you ask yourself tough questions, to shine an unfavorable light on society. When did the world suddenly find itself so full of puritans?