Best rock band of all time?

I think most of the time I would have to agree

If you are a proper Led Zeppelin fan, you should not have to ask.

i know ill get killed for this but i think that they are good but overrated...just like the beatles. i like them both and they were both revolutionary but not my favorite bands.

I can always listen to just about all Zeppelin songs over and over (not Kashmir though)... not so much with the Beatle's catalog.

That's odd 91. Kashmir is one of my favorites.

And yes, they're the best.

Jack, I'm a huge Zep fan so I'll admit my bias, but as strange as it may sound, I think Zeppelin is Underrated.

I do not believe there have been 4 greater musicians come together at one point in time in Rock history. Each one is/was a master of their instrument and widely regarded as a top 5 (or better) in their respective area. Add in the fact that they were very good writers and their manager was a marketing genius.

I would be hard pressed to argue objectively that their influence was greater than the Beatles, but from a personal standpoint I think their influence was equal to or greater than the Beatles in some respects.

If you read publications that rate musicans and bands, when they ask other musicians, Zeppelin is always at the top of many of their lists. And it crosses a huge range of genres.

While I personally like Led more than the Beatles, I do not believe that they were the more talented group.

The Beatles evolution of musical styles is evidence enough for me of their superior talent & range.

ketchup is waaaay better than mustard!!!!

Look, I love the Beatles too, but I would strongly disagree that the Beatles were more talented musicians than Zep.

I think in many cases we've been programmed to thinnk it's almost blashemous to put anyone ahead of the Beatles, but None of them were as good a vocalist as RP. JP was a much better guitar player than George. JPJ was/is a better bass player than Paul and do we even need to go to drums?

[This message has been edited by Macarthur (edited 3/1/2008 1:03p).]

i respect them and think they are amazing musicians, i just dont view them as my favorite rock band. that being said i bought the zoso record the other day and should get it within the next few days

Understood, Jack. My second post was more addressing the "more talented" point.

Led were perhaps more talented with their instruments. But talented musicians do not necessarily equal the best band.

There are differnt types of 'musical talent'. In terms of songwriting, variation of styles, creativity... the Beatles have Led beat. IMO.

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ketchup is waaaay better than mustard!!!!

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Shampoo is bettaahh!

Musical ability != good band.

There are a crapload of guitarists out there that have technical skills far better than Page ever did. That doesn't make their music better. There's a reason The Offspring sold thousands of times as many albums as Yngvie.

LZ may be more technically proficient but they don't even touch the Beatles on grounds of popularity and influence on the industry. No one has.



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the next attack will probably be in NY...maybe a nuck... -- overwater

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Each one is/was a master of their instrument and widely regarded as a top 5 (or better) in their respective area.

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Agreed. Robert Plant was sick on the tamborine and JPJ killed on the recorder.

Best in a historical aspect, but best in an overall sound aspect is a little bit of a stretch.

I would have to say both:

-Black Sabbath
-Queens of the Stone Age

Are at least comparable to overall greatness in sound



And my wild card, that i will probably get blasted for

-The Hives.

Greatest band I have ever witnessed live, then again i never had the honor to see Zeppelin live.

I think Macarther hit it head on. They were not a band driven by one or two people, but they all were firing on all pistons at once.

I saw them live. Once in 69 and again in 70. They were unbelievable.

Also, there is a musical gestalt that sometimes forms that is much more than just the sum of the parts. Zep and the Beatles, though radically different bands, are oftentimes compared. The Beatles were all average to average plus on their instruments. But together, they formed a cohesive unit that was difficult to explain.

During Zeps reign, their were other bands that could play as well as them, but they just didn't have that mysterious vibe that only Zep had.

I play guitar, and am, at best, average. I have known guitarist that were technically great,and could blow you away just noodling around. But, put them in a band, and they just can't find the pocket, that sweet place that you just have to feel.

At the same time, I know average players, who just after a few minutes can find a place in a band, and just sound good, and make the band better.

The Beatles and Zep both had that "play together/find the pocket" magic.

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they are good but overrated...just like the beatles. i like them both and they were both revolutionary

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I think you mean that you just don't like their music very much. That's fair, plenty of people like that. As tastes and sounds change the number of people who don't like their music will grow. To call them overrated, though, is just silly. Overrated has to be the most over used, and misused, phrase on this board. From a historical perspective I think it is impossible that either the Beatles or Zep is OVER rated. They are 2 of the MOST influential bands of all time (if not the 2 most). Given the time of their careers it is doubtful there will ever be bands with a greater influence.

Without a doubt, Zeppelin is the greatest band ever.

bricker?

Not my favorite, can't beat Metallica, but Zeppelin is the greatest band, and then Black Sabbath

I love Led Zep but lost a lot of respect after finding out that at best many of their songs were covers and at worst they just stole them.

I know this post is going to anger many but do me a favor and research the idea before you jump on my case.

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

The stairway one bothers me the most considering the band they stole it from was on tour with zep two years before stairway was released. And what made me even sadder was reading Plant's story on how they wrote the song in a few minutes while relaxing.

damn that does tarnish them

Madman, I have heard some of the "Zep ripped this or that off" stuff, but could you give me a source or url for your list?

I want to look into it a bit.

First of all, I doubt Jimmy Page said "Hey let's steal all this music and claim it as our own." I have a feeling that Peter Grant had more to do with the songwriting credits than any band members did. Secondly, this was a very common occurrence among blues artists (and Zeppelin started out as not much more than a blues band cranked up a dozen notches). How else would you explain Muddy Waters' "Mannish Boy" and Bo Diddley's "I'm A Man"? They're both credited to the respective musician but are basically the same song. Thirdly, take a listed to the Spirit song "Taurus" and you'll hear that it sounds a lot like the opening riff to Stairway. That probably accounts for about 5% of that song.

And "Moby Dick" is a completely different song than "The Girl I Love". In fact, the latter appears on the Led Zeppelin BBC Sessions CD under it's proper title.

[This message has been edited by Brickhouse (edited 3/4/2008 10:46a).]

[This message has been edited by Brickhouse (edited 3/4/2008 10:46a).]

I don't know how I should respond to the above other than to say most of the original artists were not credited until legal action was brought. Most of the first zep album are cover songs or stolen, you place the label you like best. As far as the spirit song goes I'm not sure what your point is.

Dazed and Confused is funny to me becuase according to one account Page left a live performance by the original artist and recorded the zep version the next day and the original album did not give credit. I don't care if most blues artists allowed people to rework music those guys were not getting paid. The Dazed ripp off was 100% theft.

I listen to Zep on a regular basis and can play most of thier bigger songs. I enjoy "their" music a lot but I just have a hard time gushing over them. They are the best cover band of all time and that does not take away from my enjoyment of them.

[This message has been edited by Madman (edited 3/4/2008 2:44p).]

To say that Stairway was a ripoff or a cover song, is complete BS. The opening riff is very similar to the Spirit song, but that is a small minority of the tune. And The Yardbirds were playing Dazed and Confused long before Zeppelin existed, so the story you heard is 100% wrong. I heard at one point that Jake Holmes heard The Yardbirds perform Dazed & Confused live and gave the song to Jimmy because he liked their version better (not just the music, but the lyrics we changed, as well).

[This message has been edited by Brickhouse (edited 3/4/2008 2:46p).]

lone stranger

just look up led zep and thieves on google or stolen or similar. Also I am trying to find it agian but an author had or has a web page with music links to allow a listner to hear the original and the zep version. In my opinion the zep version is always better so you have to give credit to the band for being able to take average material or performances and make them special.

It just bothers me that I have read many interviews with band members about songs and their origins and what they have said about the songs is just pure BS. I might try to scan the guitar mag I have with the Plant interview about stairway.

I will try to find my mag with the dazed account in it as well. Supposedly the original artist had a record released well before anyone else did.

The story has been recounted by more than one person.

Lots of blues artists borrowed lyrics from here or there, and Plant definitely did the same thing. In fact, most of the songs Zep quote-unquote stole from are songs where Plant just used lyrics from an old blues song, but the music is completely theirs. For example, listen to Leadbelly's Gallis Pole or Memphis Minnie's When the Levee Breaks, and aside from the lyrics, the music is completely Zep's. In My Time of Dying - lyrics rooted in the blues song, but listen to Sonny Boy Williamson's, then listen to Zep destroy the song over 12 minutes, and they take it to another planet.

I just can't imagine knowing that Zeppelin "borrowed" from others would really change your opinion of them in your mind.

And their biggest rip off no one ever seems to mention, but listen to Whole Lotta Love, then the Small Faces' cover of Muddy Waters' You Need Love. the riff was Page's but the song structure (including stopping for the Woman! You Need It! bit at the end), the way Plant phrased his vocals, all that was completely lifted from the Small Faces.

Regarding Jake Holmes. I read an article on him in Mojo. he did not know the Yardbirds stole it (they called it "I'm Confused", but it had the signature bass line, chords and song structure). He did know about Zeppelin's but at first just did nothing. When years later he asked a lawyer, they said it was too late to do anything when in fact it wasn't. When he tried again, it really was past the point he could take action. He never said "oh what the heck, let 'em have it".