Out of curiosity, is there pressure for professors to pass graduating seniors?

It's something I've been thinking about going into my last round of finals. My grades are solid this semester, so it's not something I'm worried about, but I've had professors state every semester that they will not bump grades even if you're graduating, etc. which leads me to believe that there is some sort of social expectation there.

Do students impose most of the pressure here (I *need* to pass/graduate, PLEASE bump my grade!) or is it more of a phantom guilt in the professor's mind that the grade they give in someone's final semester determines graduation?

yes

I have an 89.4 average in one of my classes and I'm gonna be pissed if the prof doesn't bump me up...

What is there to be pissed about? You didn't earn an A. You earned a B.

Students pressure to pass them, but dept heads etc don't push.

I had a 89.7 one semester. I got a B

Was it in English Composition?

had an 89.4 for speech -> B

89.4 rounds down to a B. 89.7 rounds up to an A.

what you should have done is get to know your prof somewhat, at least so he knows your name. it took me a few semesters to learn this but it's helped my grades out a few times

Why you people mad about getting what you earned?

89.7 = B

It might round to an A, but it means you EARNED a B.


"This is one of the most obscenely arrogant statements I have ever read. Apparently profs are completely infallible and unbiased in their grading methods, so much so that a 0.1 point difference in the average over a semester must be completely the student's fault, right? "

First, he wasn't .1 away, he was .3 away. Second, it still means he didn't earn an a. It means he earned a b. If you fail to accept that then there isnt really any reason to have this conversation.

An 89.anything is a b and will continue to be a b unless the grading scale has changed. It might be rounded to an A, but it means you earned a B. That is like saying that if you earn $89.7 a hour, you make $90. No, you make $89.7 which is close to $90, but not $90.

"I hope you get pulled over for going 40.01 mph in a 40 on your way to work today. Because you earned that ticket, right?"

Do you always make apples to oranges comparisons? First, the radar gun (assuming it isnt laser) would need to be properly calibrated. So, we would need to know the standard error of the calibration to make sure that individuals that were pulled over werent false alarms. Second, by pushing the highest score up to 100, the in class grades were standardized. Thus, it wasnt a "grading fallicy" that resulted in the 89.7, it was the students work on the assignment that warranted the grade. Using a KR 20 split we test sphericity between each individuals sittings and a correlation of homogeneity across the aggregate scores.

I guess you should only have to pay part of your mortgage, taxes, and bills too? After all, .3% of a total is NBD.

Next, speeding tickets are given at the discretion of the officer. Grades are not given at the discretion of the prof. Thus, POs have the ability to provide a warning vs. issuing a citation. So even if you "earned" a ticket, it is within their ability to assign a warning.

WE HAVE NO SUCH GIFT. Its the achilles heel of uniform enforcement: we cant grade individuals differently, even if the circumstances promote it. Everyone must be held to the same standards the same level of accountability, etc. if not, it is called arbitrary grading and results in complete chaos and a pain in the butt.

l
It's sad when the level of accountability has dropped to the point that assigning the grade earned illicits that degree of a response. Honestly Its sad and says alot about you as a personZ

Next? How does grading fallibility have anything to do with it?

I grade off total point to avoid this situation entirely and use objective based tests. I also provide extra credit. If you make an 89.9 you should have tried harder.

Also, Thank you for illustrating my point Aero that most students are beyod entitled. When you ask for something AND expect it when you know you didn't earn it, you are the poster hold for entitlement.

This isn't yale, you get the grade you earned.

Better not be a minute late to work either or you might also get fired."

If you are on time, you are late. New army (rolling eyes)



"But you talk about proper calibration and a known margin of error? Here's the thing. We aren't machines. But we have a margin of error. Problem is, unquantifiable. It varies from hour to hour or day to day. "

This is not english and the variance in VERY quantifiable. You must not be very involved in science, a complete idiot, or the typical engineer that thinks that because 99% of their profs dont take baths they are somehow better than the rest of campus.

Split test Test restest reliability, validity measures, and using a within vs. between subjects analyzation for the design accounts for all of those things.

Next, difficulty of the major is subjective. For instatnce, I think stats is easy and math modeling is fun. Im about the only one in the world that thinks such. So, I think multilevel modeling etc is easy because it is easy to me. Accounting, etc are hard because I dont quantify data well according to that model.

So, I wouldnt say any major is HARDER than another. Look at engineer scores on English. They love to talk about how easy lib arts is, yet english is the most q dropped course by engineering majors. If lib arts classes are so easy, why are they q dropping them?

[This message has been edited by Testingeffectag (edited 12/13/2011 4:37p).]

u-ag the class had about 15 people in it, we couldn't help but get to know the professor, but according to her the department of communication is very strict on the issue of rounding up grades

and not mad that my grade wasn't rounded up, mad that I didn't try just one answer better on a test to get the A

[This message has been edited by Bigsteve713 (edited 12/13/2011 12:44a).]

quote:

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Why you people mad about getting what you earned?

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Obama grading... Getting something you didn't earn

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Why you people mad about getting what you earned?

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quote:

Obama grading... Getting something you didn't earn

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At a college you were never enrolled in.

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F*** you, dude. Seriously, I hope no one ever cuts you a break. I hope you get pulled over for going 40.01 mph in a 40 on your way to work today. Because you earned that ticket, right?

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Lol

Better not be a minute late to work either or you might also get fired.

I taught graduating seniors.

I would not, for a second, hesitate to give someone a failing grade in my class. Yes, it was a lab. But the lab taught you how to do things in the real world.

And if you didn't learn the things from class or show to me that you understood what to do, then you didn't pass. And if that means you didn't graduate, then you don't graduate.

I did give out a D once. Don't know what came of that. Don't really care.

~egon

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89.7 = B

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Now that's hardcore.

I like it.

The only problem I have is that if I make an 89.4 and someone else makes an 80.1, we both get a B. It is frustrating. I'm a fan of numerical grading, even on transcripts. Get rid of the letters altogether.

I really got to know my professors my senior year. Really helped out when I was in the bubble between B-A.

Get to know your professors. It really does make a difference.

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F*** you, dude. Seriously, I hope no one ever cuts you a break. I hope you get pulled over for going 40.01 mph in a 40 on your way to work today. Because you earned that ticket, right?

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I had a 89.94 one semester in an acct. class. Prof gave me a B.

Don't care about it now, but at the time I was thinking, really?

I am Gatsby. I reside in West Egg.

quote:

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89.7 = B

It might round to an A, but it means you EARNED a B.


"This is one of the most obscenely arrogant statements I have ever read. Apparently profs are completely infallible and unbiased in their grading methods, so much so that a 0.1 point difference in the average over a semester must be completely the student's fault, right? "

First, he wasn't .1 away, he was .3 away. Second, it still means he didn't earn an a. It means he earned a b. If you fail to accept that then there isnt really any reason to have this conversation.

An 89.anything is a b and will continue to be a b unless the grading scale has changed. It might be rounded to an A, but it means you earned a B. That is like saying that if you earn $89.7 a hour, you make $90. No, you make $89.7 which is close to $90, but not $90.

"I hope you get pulled over for going 40.01 mph in a 40 on your way to work today. Because you earned that ticket, right?"

Do you always make apples to oranges comparisons? First, the radar gun (assuming it isnt laser) would need to be properly calibrated. So, we would need to know the standard error of the calibration to make sure that individuals that were pulled over werent false alarms. Second, by pushing the highest score up to 100, the in class grades were standardized. Thus, it wasnt a "grading fallicy" that resulted in the 89.7, it was the students work on the assignment that warranted the grade. Using a KR 20 split we test sphericity between each individuals sittings and a correlation of homogeneity across the aggregate scores.

I guess you should only have to pay part of your mortgage, taxes, and bills too? After all, .3% of a total is NBD.

Next, speeding tickets are given at the discretion of the officer. Grades are not given at the discretion of the prof. Thus, POs have the ability to provide a warning vs. issuing a citation. So even if you "earned" a ticket, it is within their ability to assign a warning.

WE HAVE NO SUCH GIFT. Its the achilles heel of uniform enforcement: we cant grade individuals differently, even if the circumstances promote it. Everyone must be held to the same standards the same level of accountability, etc. if not, it is called arbitrary grading and results in complete chaos and a pain in the butt.

l
It's sad when the level of accountability has dropped to the point that assigning the grade earned illicits that degree of a response. Honestly Its sad and says alot about you as a personZ

Next? How does grading fallibility have anything to do with it?

I grade off total point to avoid this situation entirely and use objective based tests. I also provide extra credit. If you make an 89.9 you should have tried harder.

Also, Thank you for illustrating my point Aero that most students are beyod entitled. When you ask for something AND expect it when you know you didn't earn it, you are the poster hold for entitlement.

This isn't yale, you get the grade you earned.

Better not be a minute late to work either or you might also get fired."

If you are on time, you are late. New army (rolling eyes)

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too long didnt read

quote:

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F*** you, dude. Seriously, I hope no one ever cuts you a break. I hope you get pulled over for going 40.01 mph in a 40 on your way to work today. Because you earned that ticket, right?

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yeah, you're not a millenial AT ALL.

Damnit! Nobody caught my joke about "A 89.4" being grammatically incorrect leading to my joke "was it in English composition"...

Or y'all caught it and thought it sucked. Damnit either way.

I'm a professor. I set a minimum grade necessary for each letter. I tell students that if you want to be guaranteed an A, you get a 90 or better. It's possible that I make adjustments at the end of semester based on the overall grade distribution and whatnot, but if you want to be sure of an A, then don't settle for an 89.8 (or whatever). So, basically, it depends on the semester and the student. If a student came to me with a sense of entitlement about a grade, it certainly wouldn't help his or her odds of getting the bump.

If you get rounded down it's generally because the professor doesn't feel like you worked hard all semester, or that you grasped the material, or (on rare instances) that they just don't like you (mostly based on one of the first two reasons.)

When I was a TA at Baylor, I worked under 2 professors...both were more on the strict side when it came to grading, but if the student indicated that they really studied (not just by coming to the office one time after a test to b**ch about a grade...but really studied) I knew the professors would bump them up from as low as 2 points down (68-C, 78-B, 88-A.) But if you indicated (as most students do) that you are just doing what is required of you and nothing more, then the grade you kept is the one you got.

Most of our differential grading came with freshman down not grading seniors up. When it came to freshman...most of them really didn't care enough to study...we just graded hard and usually rounded down. Most fresh/soph follow a standard bell curve...a handful that go above and beyond, a handful that suck, and an even distribution of average B/C's in the middle.

[This message has been edited by R E L (edited 12/13/2011 10:41a).]

The only reason to draw a hard line is to avoid the whining.

Johnny: 89.7...only .3 from A, so round to A.

Then 89.4...only .3 from Johnny, who got an A.

Then 89.1...only.

You get the picture.

Most students who ask me for a grade bump don't exhibit entitlement as much as they beg for mercy and relate all the extenuating circumstances they've encountered over the semester. I've always considered 89.5 or better an A because I know I'm not infallible.

The school I teach at has +/- grades, which makes its easier to deal with. A refusal to bump up an 89.5 only makes the difference between an A- and a B+. If it were the difference between A and B, I'd probably be more willing to consider rounding up.

First of all, rhos, get off your high horse and contribute something if you want to throw generational smack around (thought you were technically a millennial as well).

Second of all, we're talking about fractions of a point making the difference between 3.0 and 4.0 on a grade scale. It would bother me way less in a +/- or numerical grade scale, where you don't bomb someone's GPR for doing the work to earn 89.99999, which is nowhere near the work of 80.0.

But you talk about proper calibration and a known margin of error? Here's the thing. We aren't machines. But we have a margin of error. Problem is, unquantifiable. It varies from hour to hour or day to day.

But don't think I'm for giving people something they didn't earn at all. That's the difference between a good prof and a bad prof. A good prof will give someone an opportunity to do an extra assignment or project near the end of the class if you think you're going to be borderline.

It's the highly-tiered system that I really detest and that I think affords more room for margin of error. If this were a 100-pt scale, there would be no need for such discussions.

But essentially, if there are clear ground rules about the 90.0 and there are extra credit opportunities and these are both established at the beginning of the semester, I'm totally ok with that. It's the profs that spring that on you during finals week that I can't stand. No full disclosure.

But let's not make the mistake that grades are like mortgages or restaurant bills. There's not some prior contract that is agreed to and followed. Many if not most professors have a 90 as an A on their syllabus but then will change that sometime throughout the semester. Or have an assignment or test over something not covered in class.

Or, as I experienced on one AERO 310 test, grade an answer incorrectly because they didn't word their question carefully and then refused to change the grade even after admitting their error, claiming it "wouldn't matter" even though it was 10 points on a major exam.

[This message has been edited by AeroAg2012 (edited 12/13/2011 1:00p).]

the problem is that engineers are too precise in their grading. You take liberal arts majors for example, they can argue their way into a higher grade as they tend to be less socially awkward as engineers.

So in summary, liberal arts majors get better grades because they can convince their teachers of the merits rather than argue over numerical semantics.

No, liberal arts majors get better grades because their classes are easier.

Hth.

you're telling me that the byzantine empire is easier than quantum physics?

I'm under no pressure to pass or fail anyone. I am given control to grade as I wish as long as it fits within the university guidelines.