Today was the last lecture of Dr. John Manning's POSC 333 - Instincts and behavior. He was fired because of using the Bible in class, and to help illustrate things in class.

Does anyone have any thoughts about it?

I took the class this semester and loved it. It deals more with human sexuality and function than poultry, so I think it should be listed as another class instead of POSC, but he does relate everything to birds.

This is probably the class at A&M that I have learned more in than any other. He has genuinely kept my interest and has a dynamic teaching style. I am very sad to see him go. I would take any other classes he taught as an elective, just to be able to learn from a professor like that.

He was very choked up at the end of class, almost to the point of tears. His wife taped the whole class too. As he said goodbye, the class gave him a standing ovation. It was pretty moving.

I'm glad to hear he had a good send off, I've heard such great things about him as a professor, and I'm sad to see him leave A&M.

Dr. Manning was one of my fave profs I had while at A&M. The people that complained about him using the Bible in class apparently listen about as well as my 7th graders do the last day of school. He never preached or anything like that..it all completely tied into the lecture, he used it as a resource just like you would any other book.

A&M is incredibly stupid for letting this man go, he was one of the best.

I don't understand how they will get rid of someone like Dr. Manning, but keep a prof that was found to have plagerized something bc they don't want one incident to hurt her long record....I would think Dr. Manning had a much better record, but oh well.

I wish him the best. Too bad that is one more thing that many ags will never get a chance to experience, a class with Dr. Manning...

Dr. Manning has 495 class hours. Amazing

He wasn't fired for preaching, you are uninformed. This may be the general rumor and the impression he gives, but it is not accurate.

He is certainly a great guy, and A&M is losing a great assett.

Then why was he fired? If you have information that says that is wrong, please give it. Otherwise, I will go with what I have seen and heard.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 4/25/2002).]

the reports I saw in the papers, on the AFS Ag listserve I belong to, and the evening news, all said he was "asked to resign" bc he used the Bible in his lectures and he "preached"

until I see proof otherwise, this is what I will believe

I had the class last fall and agree it was one of the best classes I've taken here. Dr. Manning was a great professor and an asset to this university. The idiots that got rid of him didn't have a clue what was going on. Oh, and of course they didn't "fire him for preaching" they would never come out and admit that, they found other more convenient things to discontinue his contract for. The jist of it being that he wasn't going to subdue his style of teaching in order to keep the department head from being "uncomfortable" with him in the department. A true loss for the university. How we keep the crappy teachers and lose the really awesome ones is beyond me. I'm still waiting for explanations as to why this is.

This is a sad thing to hear. He is truly one of the great TEACHERS at A&M and really cares about the students. At one point during my college career I was placed on scholastic probation and kicked out of the college of business. Dr. Manning took me under his advisement and helped keep me in school. I ended up graduating only because he gave me a second chance. I also hate to hear that we would ask a teacher to resign because of using the Bible in class. I took this class and I also took Zoology which taught Darwin's theory of evolution. Why is that professor not being asked to resign? So much for free speech?

rjhtamu,

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How we keep the crappy teachers and lose the really awesome ones is beyond me. I'm still waiting for explanations as to why this is.

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Two words:
Political Correctness .

i've never taken a class with him....but i've heard great things about him. sounds like a man of integrity.

He probably wasn't generating enough research dollars, and of course, that's what really matters.

No, but the money from that class alone would more than compensate. A class of three hundred plus that fills every semester, all for a class listed under the Poultry Science department. He made not have made enough money on research, but he made money for his class. I took it last spring and I loved it. He is one of the only profs outside of my department that was able to hold my attention every single lecture (It's too bad that a group of SB's would constantly be talking to each other and calling people on their cell phones in class and prevent people from hearing the whole lecture). He is a great prof and I know he'll land on his feet somewhere.

"It could be worse, you could be a Baylor fan during football season."
-Sir Edmund Bearke

I don't know this guy personally, but I've got to address the underlying misunderstanding I see from many of you about whether it matters if somebody is a good teacher or not. And let it be known right up front that I hate this system.

You need to understand how the ol' tenure system works. There tend to be two "classes" of professors - the Teachers and the Researchers. The Teachers are looked down upon by the Researchers, although you'd never admit as much outside your own clique.

When I was at Virginia Tech, I was very much a Researcher, and for a profitable off-campus R&D firm to boot. The Teachers always have a hard time getting tenure, and are never considered for important committees or department heads. I had no "Teachers" on my committees.

And why is this? Money is part of it, but prestige is most of it. Prestige for yourself, your peers, and your graduate students. In the academic community (i.e., the other schools that might hire you), the prestige comes from the "pushing of the frontiers of knowledge". That is viewed as the purpose, the mission statement of the University. Teaching is viewed as subordinate. That's why it is so often done by graduate students.

That's why I always preferred private industry: everyone is in it for the glory and the money, and nobody is ashamed to admit it!

"Exactly! Only by ****ing chickens could I teach Officer Barbrady the magic of reading"

I think its pretty crappy when someone can plagerize (sp?) and keep their job but someone uses the bible as a reference and gets asked to step down. I say that is pretty f-ed up.

AiW,

Righteous Rant!

That's why I find it so humorous when you have students who get upset when someone dares to call the goals of Vision2020 into question.

They tend to get up on their high horse and preach that "I'm at A&M for the academics" not the traditions/culture/sports/whatever. The thing they seldom seem to recognize is that there's a difference between academics and education.

The main thing I was taught at A&M was how to learn things on my own (which certainly has value). If you want good teachers go to a juco, when I took summer courses at jucos the teachers there were consistently superior to the ones I had at A&M. And it was a long time before someone gave me the explanation you just wrote and I got a better understanding of the big picture.

Don't get me wrong, research is very, very important. But if it comes down to it, my loyalties lie with the students more than with the faculty. And I honestly believe that a better balance could be reached where strong teaching was rewarded and valued as well, and the universities would be a hell of a lot less hypocritical if they did.

[This message has been edited by OregonAg (edited 4/26/2002).]

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A class of three hundred plus that fills every semester

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Are you serious?! 300+???? I am pleased to say that I was in Dr. Manning's first class at A&M. We just referred to it as "sex class", completely ignoring the poultry science part. There were about 35 students in that class, in one of the corner rooms in Kleburg. Are there really 300+ in that class now? Anyway, he is a great teacher and a great man. Sorry to see him go.

I had the class last fall and it was in Kleberg 115, one of the main lecture halls that easily seats 300+ people. It was packed the first day and stayed almost full for the rest of the semester.

He forced anyone who tried this semester. When we have tests, some people are forced to take the tests on the steps.

The class is in Klegbergs biggest lecture hall.

You guys read and heard the info that the department wanted you to, he and the Dean have had their differences since Manning was hired. There was much more involved than just preaching, which I thought he actually did very little of.

He is considering teaching at the Vet School, so he may not be completely lost.

Boy, you still wont cite WHY he was fired. Because he and the dean didn't get along? There are a lot of intolerable professors at A&M and even some plagerists. I seriously doubt that is why.

Specific reason why he was fired. You brought it up but you wont support your stance. Sad

Boy named sue- I have a hard time believing that the the dean of the ag school would do this to dr. manning because they didn't get along. Both of these people are are truly awesome men who care about their students. Unless you can back up your statements you shouldn't say something like that. I've taken classes from both of them, and seen them bend over backwards to help people out. You're not impressing anyone with your "I know inside info, but i'm not telling" bs.

Like cassag, I was lucky enough to take Dr. Manning's class before it became so popular. I know I've said it before on this board, but that is the one and only class I've take at this school that will be truly useful in life. As for the bible, he uses it as a reference. Not as a preaching tool. There is a big difference. You've gotta be pretty thin skinned to be offended by what he used from the bible.

It's sad that he's been asked to step down. And it's even more sad that a class with so much real world application is being taken away. I can tell you right now that I will remember what I was taught there long after I forget all my chemistry and calculus and physics.

And AginWA- He is a researcher. He has had a project going since I met in the fall of '98.

Forget it, preaching was the main reason his contract was not renewed.

[This message has been edited by Boy Named Sue (edited 4/29/2002).]