I absolutley HATE LSU, but they will smoke TCU

37,375 Views | 250 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by Longhorn Doc
you moran
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AG
LSU is a very good team that had a bad day. Neither A&M nor TCU are "superior". All 3 teams are or were capable of making a run. Most of the teams at the CWS and a couple who aren't here are, or were, capable of a run for that matter. A couple of teams were clear favorites coming in including LSU. Virginia was a darkhorse (up and down season but a talented team that seems to have finally put it together). Arky was the only team that I felt was truly fortuitous to be here with the way some matchups played out but they don't/didn't suck.

LSU's bad day could certainly be their doom but it isn't over yet. They have to get by a good Fullerton team, (who had a tremendously tough break with the weather) but LSU does have their most effective pitcher on the bump. Fullerton used their stud against Vandy in "part one" and lost to the weather. Against TCU, LSU only had one guy in their lineup batting under .300 and that guy (9 hole hitter) hit his 10th HR of the season against TCU. Fullerton has a quality pitching staff even beyond Eshelman. We will see if their bats can step up. Could be a fun game to watch.

If they get by them, LSU still has some capable arms and like what happened with us in the sub-regional some unsung guys may have to step up. However, the games are more spread out here versus the sub. LSU fan's hand-wringing in the post above may prove warranted but LSU is not toothless after Lange.

As for the "conference" stuff, the SEC has already proven it's strength this post-season (half the CWS participants), regardless of what happens from this point forward. Similarly the Big 12 was absolutely terrible this year regardless of what TCU does here (not unlike Rice and their conferences in the past). That debate is over for this season for everybody but the spinners.

This is about individual teams at this point and some good baseball. While, in a rivalry sense, I "hate" both TCU and LSU, I respect their teams ability. For me, TCU winning has made things more interesting. I thought LSU would beat them in a close one by pulling away late. Maybe a 4-2 or 5-2 type game. I still think LSU is a better team overall and over the long haul. But TCU got it done, the format is the format, and TCU has put a very good team on the brink. They lobbed a grenade so to speak and announced their presence.

It ain't over though. It just became more interesting for me.
Longhorn Doc
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quote:
LSU is a very good team that had a bad day. Neither A&M nor TCU are "superior". All 3 teams are or were capable of making a run. Most of the teams at the CWS and a couple who aren't here are, or were, capable of a run for that matter. A couple of teams were clear favorites coming in including LSU. Virginia was a darkhorse (up and down season but a talented team that seems to have finally put it together). Arky was the only team that I felt was truly fortuitous to be here with the way some matchups played out but they don't/didn't suck.

LSU's bad day could certainly be their doom but it isn't over yet. They have to get by a good Fullerton team, (who had a tremendously tough break with the weather) but LSU does have their most effective pitcher on the bump. Fullerton used their stud against Vandy in "part one" and lost to the weather. Against TCU, LSU only had one guy in their lineup batting under .300 and that guy (9 hole hitter) hit his 10th HR of the season against TCU. Fullerton has a quality pitching staff even beyond Eshelman. We will see if their bats can step up. Could be a fun game to watch.

If they get by them, LSU still has some capable arms and like what happened with us in the sub-regional some unsung guys may have to step up. However, the games are more spread out here versus the sub. LSU fan's hand-wringing in the post above may prove warranted but LSU is not toothless after Lange.

As for the "conference" stuff, the SEC has already proven it's strength this post-season (half the CWS participants), regardless of what happens from this point forward. Similarly the Big 12 was absolutely terrible this year regardless of what TCU does here (not unlike Rice and their conferences in the past). That debate is over for this season for everybody but the spinners.

This is about individual teams at this point and some good baseball. While, in a rivalry sense, I "hate" both TCU and LSU, I respect their teams ability. For me, TCU winning has made things more interesting. I thought LSU would beat them in a close one by pulling away late. Maybe a 4-2 or 5-2 type game. I still think LSU is a better team overall and over the long haul. But TCU got it done, the format is the format, and TCU has put a very good team on the brink. They lobbed a grenade so to speak and announced their presence.

It ain't over though. It just became more interesting for me.
I think the two best teams in the series played tonight - TCU and Vandy. Both teams have the best pitching in the series and tonight proved it. And good pitching always mitigates good batting.

I think the Big 12 was weaker this year then it normally is, but most of the teams were very young. And, historically, the Big 12 is never bad in baseball.
W
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AG
so LSU vs. TCU round 2 coming up on Thursday
W
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AG
and here's part of what makes the SEC so good...

let's talk about those bottom feeder SEC teams...

Tennessee finished in 12th place in the league -- but Christin Stewart -- a 1st round draft pick -- would have easily been the Big 12 player of the year.

South Carolina finished in 10th place in the league -- but likewise Kyle Martin -- a 4th round pick -- would have easily been the Big 12 player of the year.

Alabama finished in 11th place -- but again Mikey White -- a 2nd round pick -- might have been the Big 12 player of the year or at least 1st team shortstop.

even the "bad" SEC teams have great, great players. I don't think the likes of Baylor, Kansas, West Virginia, etc.. could say that this year or just about any year.
Agsroll
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quote:
and here's part of what makes the SEC so good...

let's talk about those bottom feeder SEC teams...

Tennessee finished in 12th place in the league -- but Christin Stewart -- a 1st round draft pick -- would have easily been the Big 12 player of the year.

South Carolina finished in 10th place in the league -- but likewise Kyle Martin -- a 4th round pick -- would have easily been the Big 12 player of the year.

Alabama finished in 11th place -- but again Mikey White -- a 2nd round pick -- might have been the Big 12 player of the year or at least 1st team shortstop.

even the "bad" SEC teams have great, great players. I don't think the likes of Baylor, Kansas, West Virginia, etc.. could say that this year or just about any year.
And A&M is still sitting at home.
Longhorn Doc
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quote:
and here's part of what makes the SEC so good...

let's talk about those bottom feeder SEC teams...

Tennessee finished in 12th place in the league -- but Christin Stewart -- a 1st round draft pick -- would have easily been the Big 12 player of the year.

South Carolina finished in 10th place in the league -- but likewise Kyle Martin -- a 4th round pick -- would have easily been the Big 12 player of the year.

Alabama finished in 11th place -- but again Mikey White -- a 2nd round pick -- might have been the Big 12 player of the year or at least 1st team shortstop.

even the "bad" SEC teams have great, great players. I don't think the likes of Baylor, Kansas, West Virginia, etc.. could say that this year or just about any year.
Discussing bottom feeders is really academic. It doesn't matter who has the most because they are all losers, relative to the CWS. Besides, I wasn't trying to make a comparison of the SEC to the Big 12. I simply said the Big 12 is weaker this year than normal.
As far as the CWS, the SEC is clearly dominate with the quantity of teams represented. There is no argument.

But I am puzzled as to why this turned into "who's conference is better" debate? Especially when it should be whose team is better?

Right now, it looks like Vandy is the best.
Tex100
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I "loved" the commentators remarks last night along the lines that those two schools don't recruit, bu they develop players.
TXAggie2011
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Cincinnati just had one of their juniors drafted 9th overall in the MLB draft.

Cincinnati was horrible this season. Absolutely horrible. They finished last in the American Conference by 4 games. They had a 15-41 overall record.

I agree the SEC is much deeper and just a plain better league than the Big 12, I don't think anyone would say otherwise and that's not what the conversation was about, but having a great player drafted high doesn't mean anything about what kind of team you have.

quote:
even the "bad" SEC teams have great, great players. I don't think the likes of Baylor, Kansas, West Virginia, etc.. could say that this year or just about any year.
Last place Kansas had a player drafted in the 5th round, as well as 5 more players drafted, had the unanimous Big 12 Newcomer of the Year, had another 1st Team All Big-12 player...

Maybe you're right...all those SEC players could have been the Big 12 player of the year over TCU's Cody Jones...but here Cody Jones is playing in Omaha and they are not and that's really what this is about.
Foxo
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Did any school have more players drafted in 2015 than TCU ?
Bunk Moreland
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quote:
Did any school have more players drafted in 2015 than TCU ?

They had 8 guys drafted.

Immediately I checked Vandy who had 9.
Virginia had 7

I'm sure there are some more up there as well.
swimmerbabe11
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OU had more players drafted than anyone else.
Foxo
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A so-so team can get to Omaha and a so-so team can win it all. But I think it is foolish to pretend that TCU is not a good team
Bunk Moreland
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11, but only 2 in the top 12 rounds. Tons of late rounders.
mhayden
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I get really tired of the "Team X won the game/series/whatever, but Team Y was the better team."

If that's your viewpoint, why in the heck even watch sports if you're un-accepting of the team that advances and/or is crowned the champion?

The Kansas City Royals played 162 regular season games last year. The Orioles won 96 regular season games. The Angels 98. The Royals? 89.

The Royals were the 2014 AL Champions... But does that mean the Angels or Orioles were actually the better team?

Do they hang a banner and parade for "Best Team Even Though We Didn't Win It All" ?

At what sample size can we determine who the "better team" was?

"Better team" is just a way to feel better for fans of the team who lost (or in a lot of these cases, when the team someone was predicting doesn't make it as far as predicted).
W
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2 things to take into consideration in those situations...

- player moves during the season -- injuries (in college), trades & call-ups (in MLB).

- uneven schedules
TXAggie2011
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I don't know what that cutoff is for determining who is the better team, but I know its more than a single series.

The "better team" debate is out of place in this thread, I agree, but its useful for looking at the big picture and figuring the real, overall quality of a program.

I'd much rather have been given the keys to Miami after the 2008 CWS, even though Fresno State won the national championship.

That's the worth of it, although, again, I agree that if looking at a season or tournament in isolation, it is more of a "feel better" conversation than anything else.
mhayden
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quote:
2 things to take into consideration in those situations...

- player moves during the season -- injuries (in college), trades & call-ups (in MLB).

- uneven schedules

My point is you play the game to determine a winner. You play the season to determine a winner. Injuries happen. Schedules wind up being easier/harder. Weather will play a factor. One pitcher/quarterback/whatever could be on or off their game on any given night. Etc, etc...

Some person, some fan, some where will be able to bring up some variable that counters why this team isn't the best or that team is actually better.

If TCU knocks out LSU, then LSU didn't win when it mattered the most. Therefore they aren't the better team unless being the "better team" has nothing to do with actually beating out the other teams.
mhayden
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quote:
I don't know what that cutoff is for determining who is the better team, but I know its more than a single series.

The "better team" debate is out of place in this thread, I agree, but its useful for looking at the big picture and figuring the real, overall quality of a program.

I'd much rather have been given the keys to Miami after the 2008 CWS, even though Fresno State won the national championship.

That's the worth of it, although, again, I agree that if looking at a season or tournament in isolation, it is more of a "feel better" conversation than anything else.

I agree a single series isn't a good sample size, but neither are 13 games in a college football season (where the two teams in debate likely only meet once).

Apparently neither is a 162 game baseball season, otherwise we'd be crowning the Los Angeles Angels the best team in the American League in 2014.

At some point it's best just to throw out the 10,000 variables that exist in regards to why a team won this game or lost this series and accept that the agreed upon regular season and postseason will determine the champion.
Bunk Moreland
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Agreed. Recognizing great teams that maybe didn't achieve the championship glory is something fun for an organization or school to do down the road or look back fondly on.

But in the end, you are judged by the skins on the wall. I doubt a Seattle Mariners fan is walking around talking **** to other teams about going 116-46 in 2001 these days. It's great to remember what a fun season that was, but in the end, they got the division championship and that's it. They didn't win the pennant, and they didn't win the world series.
W
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AG
and to bring this thread back to TCU specifically...

Lupton stadium and its cavernous dimensions add fuel to the fire. That field is so slanted toward pitching, it makes people question how TCU would perform in a hitter-friendly stadium (like FSU or Kentucky) or at least one with neutral dimensions (like Olsen Field).

Schlossnagle's comments after TCU lost its series at Kansas State's hitter-friendly ballpark echo the sentiment.

This is just another thing that factors into the "who is really the better team" discussion
Spyderman
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TCU is good and I hope LSU puts a knot on their head.
dachsie
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quote:
quote:
Did any school have more players drafted in 2015 than TCU ?

They had 8 guys drafted.



So did LSU. Hopefully they will play like it tomorrow.
TexasRebel
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The 1919 Sox were definitely better than the Redlegs...
TXAggie2011
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quote:
Agreed. Recognizing great teams that maybe didn't achieve the championship glory is something fun for an organization or school to do down the road or look back fondly on.
Recognizing great teams that maybe didn't achieve the championship glory is something necessary for an organization or school to do immediately when they're determining if they're going to keep or fire coaches, if they're going to keep or cut players, etc...

I'm not proposing we change the way we crown champions or add an asterisk next to some teams' records, anytime you play unbalanced and different schedules, playoffs start to become a necessary evil (and a nice revenue stream). At some point you do have to just call it a day and crown someone a champion and that's great and exciting.

But its an imperfect system and you have to recognize that when making evaluations. If I'm a coach and I have to pick a roster to move forward with and try to build a program and win over multiple years, I'm taking 0-2 in Omaha Miami and I'm passing on Champion Fresno State.

Again, I know that's not what is happening in this thread and I agree, if TCU beats LSU, then TCU beat LSU fair and square and TCU deserves to move on without an asterisk and LSU deserves to go home without an asterisk.
Bunk Moreland
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I agree with all of that. Good seasons are still good seasons.
mhayden
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quote:
quote:
Agreed. Recognizing great teams that maybe didn't achieve the championship glory is something fun for an organization or school to do down the road or look back fondly on.
Recognizing great teams that maybe didn't achieve the championship glory is something necessary for an organization or school to do immediately when they're determining if they're going to keep or fire coaches, if they're going to keep or cut players, etc...

I'm not proposing we change the way we crown champions or add an asterisk next to some teams' records, anytime you play unbalanced and different schedules, playoffs start to become a necessary evil (and a nice revenue stream). At some point you do have to just call it a day and crown someone a champion and that's great and exciting.

But its an imperfect system and you have to recognize that when making evaluations. If I'm a coach and I have to pick a roster to move forward with and try to build a program and win over multiple years, I'm taking 0-2 in Omaha Miami and I'm passing on Champion Fresno State.

Again, I know that's not what is happening in this thread and I agree, if TCU beats LSU, then TCU beat LSU fair and square and TCU deserves to move on without an asterisk and LSU deserves to go home without an asterisk.

While i agree with that to an extent (is a "better team" that loses more worthy of keeping the coaches/players -- after all, they didn't get the job done with the tools), much of this is in reference to message board and fan banter regarding how good their team is. When you see someone on Texags comment that "Team X was the better team", they are doing so from the standpoint of team evaluation.
Macarthur
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A lot of rationalization going on about tcu. You don't make it to the CWS 3 out of 5 years and not have a very good program.
W
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AG
TCU has a very good program no doubt. But those Omaha trips came with very, very favorable circumstances -- really all 3 years. The knowledgeable college baseball fans know that
TXAggie2011
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quote:
TCU has a very good program no doubt. But those Omaha trips came with very, very favorable circumstances -- really all 3 years. The knowledgeable college baseball fans know that
I have a bit of a hard time with this statement.

This year,2015, what were TCU's very, very, very favorable circumstances? They were a National seed and got to play one of the best non-national seeds at home? 4 of the other 7 national seeds did not make it to Omaha. We're discounting TCU because they were good enough to get a national seed and capitalized on it against a tough opponent in A&M unlike the majority of the rest of the national seeds?

Last year, 2014, they were 1 of only 2 national seeds to make it to Omaha. Sure, they got to play a 3 seed in the Super Regional. The #1 and #2 overall seeds got eliminated by 3 seeds!

2010, they won all 3 games in their regional by at least 6 runs and then beat the #2 overall seed on the road. What were the very favorable circumstances?
swimmerbabe11
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Our baseball team got some really rough news tonight about our mascot and littlest recuit Micah Ahearn.

Pretty much everyone I know who follows TCU baseball has shed a few tears tonight.

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/micahahern/journal/view/id/558222bfca16b4c93bb355fc
TXAggie2011
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Terrible news. I'm really sorry to hear that.

quote:
Our doctor believes that all treatment from this point forward is to prolong life and increase his quality of life rather than in efforts for a cure.
mhayden
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quote:
TCU has a very good program no doubt. But those Omaha trips came with very, very favorable circumstances -- really all 3 years. The knowledgeable college baseball fans know that

It's the same rationalization we use against Baylor basketball's success.

It's the same rationalization the Longhorns used against our initial success in the SEC.

The San Francisco Giants? Well they got lucky and only had to play a team that barely made the playoffs in the World Series.


It's the same rationalization any person who isn't a fan of the team who has success will use.
Ginsang
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quote:
Our baseball team got some really rough news tonight about our mascot and littlest recuit Micah Ahearn.

Pretty much everyone I know who follows TCU baseball has shed a few tears tonight.

http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/micahahern/journal/view/id/558222bfca16b4c93bb355fc
Yikes, I couldn't even imagine having to type that up.

Wishing for the best for the little dude!
dachsie
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So very sad and heartbreaking.
pdaddy
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AG
Devastating. Prayers sent.
 
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