with the size of the crime scene and the numbers involved, I'm not surprised if there is quite a bit of inaccurate information floating around in the first 24-36 hours, even if it's stated directly by police.
Gunfight at the Twin Peaks [Staff Warning on page 47]
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Last: 2 yr ago by rather be fishing
I think they are both bad dudes and anyone that associates in any way with either of them is a ****ing idiot.
but that's just my opinion. i could be wrong. [/Dennis Miller]
but that's just my opinion. i could be wrong. [/Dennis Miller]
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You're thinking too logically DD. Don't you know that in 2015 authorities should have all of the answers and they have to be 100% accurate 20 minutes after something like this goes down?
quote:quote:Yet, the COC is headed by a 1% club. Is that right?quote:quote:
There is a wide variety of motorcycle clubs, and the majority of them aren't even hell raisers.
Are there any reports that either the Waco PD or the Feds have any interest in charging such individuals if they happened to be at TP?
How many Christian/Veteran/etc. (i.e. "good guy") clubs were at TP Sunday? How many had weapons?
Quite a few. I listed some of them whose patches I recognized earlier. I'm not sure how big the central TX COC is, but there are somewhere around 250 different MCs, RCs, MAs, and MMs in the Houston COC. Only a very few of them are 1% clubs.
That's what I don't understand. If all of these clubs are members of the COC, why do they associate themselves with an organization that is headed by outlaws?
It's more complicated than that, and it's stuff that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum like this.
Almost every MC, RC, MA, and MM in Texas, apart from a couple of LEO clubs and one or two others, is part of the COC. The COC is run by elected officers who can be members of any of the clubs. Hell, you can go to the COC website and see who they are. The COC does a lot of good as far as organizing the MC community. They focus legislative efforts, conduct motorcycle awareness campaigns, inform the member clubs about upcoming rides and charities, etc. there is a lot more to it, but the COC is a good thing. It keeps the clubs organized and defrays a lot of problems before they start.
quote:
and it's stuff that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum like this.
This goes right to the crux of the nonsense.
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quote:If that's the case, then kick the sh**heads out of the COC. Why is that so complicated?quote:quote:Yet, the COC is headed by a 1% club. Is that right?quote:quote:
There is a wide variety of motorcycle clubs, and the majority of them aren't even hell raisers.
Are there any reports that either the Waco PD or the Feds have any interest in charging such individuals if they happened to be at TP?
How many Christian/Veteran/etc. (i.e. "good guy") clubs were at TP Sunday? How many had weapons?
Quite a few. I listed some of them whose patches I recognized earlier. I'm not sure how big the central TX COC is, but there are somewhere around 250 different MCs, RCs, MAs, and MMs in the Houston COC. Only a very few of them are 1% clubs.
That's what I don't understand. If all of these clubs are members of the COC, why do they associate themselves with an organization that is headed by outlaws?
It's more complicated than that, and it's stuff that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum like this.
Almost every MC, RC, MA, and MM in Texas, apart from a couple of LEO clubs and one or two others, is part of the COC. The COC is run by elected officers who can be members of any of the clubs. Hell, you can go to the COC website and see who they are. The COC does a lot of good as far as organizing the MC community. They focus legislative efforts, conduct motorcycle awareness campaigns, inform the member clubs about upcoming rides and charities, etc. there is a lot more to it, but the COC is a good thing. It keeps the clubs organized and defrays a lot of problems before they start.
quote:Because if you want to start or be a member of a motorcycle club, you have to have your colors/patches approved by whoever runs everything, which is always one of these mafia-type gangs.quote:Yet, the COC is headed by a 1% club. Is that right?quote:quote:
There is a wide variety of motorcycle clubs, and the majority of them aren't even hell raisers.
Are there any reports that either the Waco PD or the Feds have any interest in charging such individuals if they happened to be at TP?
How many Christian/Veteran/etc. (i.e. "good guy") clubs were at TP Sunday? How many had weapons?
Quite a few. I listed some of them whose patches I recognized earlier. I'm not sure how big the central TX COC is, but there are somewhere around 250 different MCs, RCs, MAs, and MMs in the Houston COC. Only a very few of them are 1% clubs.
That's what I don't understand. If all of these clubs are members of the COC, why do they associate themselves with an organization that is headed by outlaws?
I guess you don't HAVE to have it approved, but these are drug dealing murderers, and they say you have to have it approved, so it is in your best interest to let them say "Actually, Red and White is already taken by the Hells Angels, and you don't want to be mistaken for a HA, so why don't you go with green and navy or brown and red?"
They wear those colors and logos to be identifiable and part of the gangsters' mission in regulating who can wear what is making sure there aren't conflicts.
If the MissSt Alumni Motorcycle Club is in a huge fight with the TcehTard Motorcycle Club, they don't want a TcehTard MC rider to mistake the TAMU MC rider for a MissStMC rider and BTHO of the wrong person.
These are bad dudes, but they aren't really known for killing people that aren't apart of other bad organizations and or other drug dealers.
It's like asking why the Italian Restaurants paid money to the Mafia in NYC in the 70s. Because if they didn't bad things would happen.
quote:Oh, it's so simple. Kick the most powerful gang in the entire state out of the club. What could go wrong? I mean, it isn't like they are drug dealers and murderers.quote:If that's the case, then kick the sh**heads out of the COC. Why is that so complicated?quote:quote:Yet, the COC is headed by a 1% club. Is that right?quote:quote:
There is a wide variety of motorcycle clubs, and the majority of them aren't even hell raisers.
Are there any reports that either the Waco PD or the Feds have any interest in charging such individuals if they happened to be at TP?
How many Christian/Veteran/etc. (i.e. "good guy") clubs were at TP Sunday? How many had weapons?
Quite a few. I listed some of them whose patches I recognized earlier. I'm not sure how big the central TX COC is, but there are somewhere around 250 different MCs, RCs, MAs, and MMs in the Houston COC. Only a very few of them are 1% clubs.
That's what I don't understand. If all of these clubs are members of the COC, why do they associate themselves with an organization that is headed by outlaws?
It's more complicated than that, and it's stuff that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum like this.
Almost every MC, RC, MA, and MM in Texas, apart from a couple of LEO clubs and one or two others, is part of the COC. The COC is run by elected officers who can be members of any of the clubs. Hell, you can go to the COC website and see who they are. The COC does a lot of good as far as organizing the MC community. They focus legislative efforts, conduct motorcycle awareness campaigns, inform the member clubs about upcoming rides and charities, etc. there is a lot more to it, but the COC is a good thing. It keeps the clubs organized and defrays a lot of problems before they start.
quote:Considering they just blanket arrested everyone even without any evidence of wrong doing, charged them with a capital crime and decided to sort it out later and have published information that they later updated and said was inaccurate, I think it is fair to say WPD doesn't really know the answers to a lot of your questions.quote:
We don't know and it seems like wpd doesn't know the answered to your questions
I share your concern that the Police themselves may not be fully forthcoming on all they know -- with the public or with the defendants.
I know you aren't in crimlaw, but I would say it probably isn't normal to arrest and charge someone with a capital offense without any evidence they were actually involved in the commission of that capital offense.
quote:
Because if you want to start or be a member of a motorcycle club, you have to have your colors/patches approved by whoever runs everything, which is always one of these mafia-type gangs.
Feels like I'm back to the crux of the issue. Why do we need colors and patches to go hang out with some friends that enjoy the same hobby? Is this Girl Scouts?
It feels an awful lot like LARP. Except the LARP nerds aren't known for selling meth or hurting people. Well, at least I think they aren't.
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quote:I guess what I'm trying to say is this. If a vast majority of the MC's are good people, which I'm not doubting, why do they want to be associated with a group/organization that is headed by drug dealers and murderers?quote:Oh, it's so simple. Kick the most powerful gang in the entire state out of the club. What could go wrong? I mean, it isn't like they are drug dealers and murderers.quote:If that's the case, then kick the sh**heads out of the COC. Why is that so complicated?quote:quote:Yet, the COC is headed by a 1% club. Is that right?quote:quote:
There is a wide variety of motorcycle clubs, and the majority of them aren't even hell raisers.
Are there any reports that either the Waco PD or the Feds have any interest in charging such individuals if they happened to be at TP?
How many Christian/Veteran/etc. (i.e. "good guy") clubs were at TP Sunday? How many had weapons?
Quite a few. I listed some of them whose patches I recognized earlier. I'm not sure how big the central TX COC is, but there are somewhere around 250 different MCs, RCs, MAs, and MMs in the Houston COC. Only a very few of them are 1% clubs.
That's what I don't understand. If all of these clubs are members of the COC, why do they associate themselves with an organization that is headed by outlaws?
It's more complicated than that, and it's stuff that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum like this.
Almost every MC, RC, MA, and MM in Texas, apart from a couple of LEO clubs and one or two others, is part of the COC. The COC is run by elected officers who can be members of any of the clubs. Hell, you can go to the COC website and see who they are. The COC does a lot of good as far as organizing the MC community. They focus legislative efforts, conduct motorcycle awareness campaigns, inform the member clubs about upcoming rides and charities, etc. there is a lot more to it, but the COC is a good thing. It keeps the clubs organized and defrays a lot of problems before they start.
quote:Most riders don't have patches and don't join MCs like that. I was a member of the club of people that owned the same brand of bike as me. My dad is a biker that you would expect to be in a group like that by looking at him, but never has been. He was a member of HOG, which is basically a "send in $50 and you get a pin and a catalog" group.quote:
Because if you want to start or be a member of a motorcycle club, you have to have your colors/patches approved by whoever runs everything, which is always one of these mafia-type gangs.
Feels like I'm back to the crux of the issue. Why do we need colors and patches to go hang out with some friends that enjoy the same hobby? Is this Girl Scouts?
It feels an awful lot like LARP. Except the LARP nerds aren't known for selling meth or hurting people. Well, at least I think they aren't.
For me, being in that group, going on a few rides and to a few meetings was good because when I had a question about how to fix or mod something on my bike, I had contacts I could talk to about it.
These guys are probably generally not the type of guys that fit in in many other social groups and it is a pretty normal human instinct to belong to a group. So their favorite thing is their motorcycle, and they join a group of other guys that share that hobby/past time. It's just a less socially acceptable version of us wearing maroon polos and gold rings.
I wonder how many UC's were actually there with the actual clubs!
quote:Is this the first time you have ever heard of gangs? You've never heard of the bloods or crips wearing red and blue? This is the same thing, but they ride motorcycles. Crimes are committed to fund their organization. Not sure why this whole deal is so surprising to everybody. It's been going on for years and years. Like others have said, these guys are the bottom of the bucket. They were the socially-inept dudes in high school that didn't play sports and never got laid. Probably dropped out of school and worked as a mechanic or plumber. Well, guess what......all those weird dudes got together and started a motorcycle gang. And if you look at their pictures online, they still aren't getting laid. 95% of the pics are of dudes with a fat chick scattered in there every now and then. But, they belong to a group that they have something in common with.quote:
Why do we need colors and patches to go hang out with some friends that enjoy the same hobby? Is this Girl Scouts?
Not sure what's more ridiculous, this whole situation or the series finale of SOA
So are the Cossacks a white supremacist club? This image from Waco shows an SS tattoo and an SS patch. It's a blatant Nazi symbol. I know the conversation earlier was about whether you'd enter the restaurant if you saw all the bikers. Maybe, maybe not. But if I see guys with SS tattoos and clothing, I'm out.
My point is regarding the clubs/people that aren't criminals but are dressing up like them. And as a result, end up needing approvals of criminals, affiliating in some way with criminals, and having to behave in manners as not to piss the criminals off. It's the affiliated clubs made up of people that don't otherwise seem to be misfits that I don't get at all.
Obviously, I've heard of gangs and know they wear colors. It's the people that aren't in the gang but want to dress up like the gang, get approval of the gang, and occasionally affiliate with the gang in some way that I don't get. That is my point about the Girl Scout patches.
Obviously, I've heard of gangs and know they wear colors. It's the people that aren't in the gang but want to dress up like the gang, get approval of the gang, and occasionally affiliate with the gang in some way that I don't get. That is my point about the Girl Scout patches.
The guy i ate with said yes, they are into supremacy.
quote:I've heard they do that to push the boundries of society and push buttons but who knows. I know it is a fairly new gang from Russia. Not something I would be a part of.
So are the Cossacks a white supremacist club? This image from Waco shows an SS tattoo and an SS patch. It's a blatant Nazi symbol. I know the conversation earlier was about whether you'd enter the restaurant if you saw all the bikers. Maybe, maybe not. But if I see guys with SS tattoos and clothing, I'm out.
quote:Yeah, but what provides the most protection when riding? Pretty much leather jacket and leather pants. I personally wore a mesh jacket with kevlar pads because Houston is way too hot to wear all leather.
My point is regarding the clubs/people that aren't criminals but are dressing up like them. And as a result, end up needing approvals of criminals, affiliating in some way with criminals, and having to behave in manners as not to piss the criminals off.
Motorcyclists were wearing all leather before these bike gangs were a big thing that ran all kinds of trouble.
quote:The difference is that the bloods and crips and MS13, etc. don't have hangars on or imitators that claim they "aren't like those gangs".quote:Is this the first time you have ever heard of gangs? You've never heard of the bloods or crips wearing red and blue? This is the same thing, but they ride motorcycles. Crimes are committed to fund their organization. Not sure why this whole deal is so surprising to everybody. It's been going on for years and years. Like others have said, these guys are the bottom of the bucket. They were the socially-inept dudes in high school that didn't play sports and never got laid. Probably dropped out of school and worked as a mechanic or plumber. Well, guess what......all those weird dudes got together and started a motorcycle gang. And if you look at their pictures online, they still aren't getting laid. 95% of the pics are of dudes with a fat chick scattered in there every now and then. But, they belong to a group that they have something in common with.quote:
Why do we need colors and patches to go hang out with some friends that enjoy the same hobby? Is this Girl Scouts?
you can start a motorcycle club and ride with leather jackets/warm up suits, three peice suits, etc., just don't wear patches. I would imagine you would be o.k. with the COC and the Bandidos.
If you want to have patches then the protocol is to go to the COC and get approval. Why? - because thats the rule.
Why would law abiding citizens follow the rules set by an outlaw gang? - because they want to have patches on their leather jackets, but are not willing to die or take the beating that would come from not following the rules.
If you want to have patches then the protocol is to go to the COC and get approval. Why? - because thats the rule.
Why would law abiding citizens follow the rules set by an outlaw gang? - because they want to have patches on their leather jackets, but are not willing to die or take the beating that would come from not following the rules.
quote:From Anti-Defamation League:quote:I've heard they do that to push the boundries of society and push buttons but who knows. I know it is a fairly new gang from Russia. Not something I would be a part of.
So are the Cossacks a white supremacist club? This image from Waco shows an SS tattoo and an SS patch. It's a blatant Nazi symbol. I know the conversation earlier was about whether you'd enter the restaurant if you saw all the bikers. Maybe, maybe not. But if I see guys with SS tattoos and clothing, I'm out.
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/ss-bolts.html
Decades ago, some outlaw biker gangs appropriated several Nazi-related symbols, including the SS bolts, essentially as shock symbols or symbols of rebellion or non-conformity. Thus SS bolts in the context of the outlaw biker subculture does not necessarily denote actual adherence to white supremacy. However, because there are a number of racists and full-blown white supremacists within the outlaw biker subculture, sometimes it actually is used as a symbol of white supremacy. Often the intended use and meaning of the SS bolts in this context is quite ambiguous and difficult to determine.
Wearing regular leathers wouldn't cause an issue though, right?
quote:
So are the Cossacks a white supremacist club? This image from Waco shows an SS tattoo and an SS patch. It's a blatant Nazi symbol. I know the conversation earlier was about whether you'd enter the restaurant if you saw all the bikers. Maybe, maybe not. But if I see guys with SS tattoos and clothing, I'm out.
Those guys don't even fit the bill for the SS as far as color (blonde hair blue eyes). Kidding btw.
When I worked the streets in Memphis, I worked several GSW'S involving a few guys with SS and swastika tats. My partner at the time was older black guy and they made it clear who was working their brother and who was driving the ambulance.
quote:Don't wear anything that could get you mistaken for a gang member and you are fine. Wanna put a Harley Patch on your leather jacket? Sure, no problem. Want to design a series of patches that could be confused for gang patches, you are making a big mistake.
Wearing regular leathers wouldn't cause an issue though, right?
quote:FBI agent on the Fox news program at lunch saying it's tough to get UCs into the 1% clubs. Primarily because in order to become a full patch member Ann's certainly to get into an inner circle to be of any use to law enforcement, they things they'd have too do might be unacceptable.
I wonder how many UC's were actually there with the actual clubs!
Again, just parroting the FBI guy on TV.
Well, I can't say I find wearing the symbol particularly shocking, pathetic but not shocking. I doubt these fools realize the SS would have thrown the lot of them in death camps because their criminal associations were signs of genetic inferiority.
quote:It has happened three known times. They may have more in addition.quote:FBI agent on the Fox news program at lunch saying it's tough to get UCs into the 1% clubs. Primarily because in order to become a full patch member Ann's certainly to get into an inner circle to be of any use to law enforcement, they things they'd have too do might be unacceptable.
I wonder how many UC's were actually there with the actual clubs!
Again, just parroting the FBI guy on TV.
http://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/the-cop-who-infiltrated-southern-californias-most-notorious-biker-gangs/
http://www.history.com/shows/gangland-undercover/articles/charles-falco
quote:quote:quote:
Decades ago, some outlaw biker gangs appropriated several Nazi-related symbols, including the SS bolts, essentially as shock symbols or symbols of rebellion or non-conformity. Thus SS bolts in the context of the outlaw biker subculture does not necessarily denote actual adherence to white supremacy. However, because there are a number of racists and full-blown white supremacists within the outlaw biker subculture, sometimes it actually is used as a symbol of white supremacy. Often the intended use and meaning of the SS bolts in this context is quite ambiguous and difficult to determine.
That's true, but check out this picture:
The guy in the back with the necklace? Celtic cross, another symbol that's very popular with the white supremacist crowd. Don't know if the Cossaks in general are a white power group, but those two symbols both being used is a pretty good indication.
That and he's skinny with bad teeth. Never seen a white supremacist who wasn't either skinny with bad teeth or a minimum of 200 lbs overweight. For people so convinced whites are superior, they're often really, really poor examples of superior anything.
quote:Yeah no clue. It could also be that they were skinheads and are now Cossacks, roving from one upstanding organization to another.quote:quote:quote:
Decades ago, some outlaw biker gangs appropriated several Nazi-related symbols, including the SS bolts, essentially as shock symbols or symbols of rebellion or non-conformity. Thus SS bolts in the context of the outlaw biker subculture does not necessarily denote actual adherence to white supremacy. However, because there are a number of racists and full-blown white supremacists within the outlaw biker subculture, sometimes it actually is used as a symbol of white supremacy. Often the intended use and meaning of the SS bolts in this context is quite ambiguous and difficult to determine.
That's true, but check out this picture:
The guy in the back with the necklace? Celtic cross, another symbol that's very popular with the white supremacist crowd. Don't know if the Cossaks in general are a white power group, but those two symbols both being used is a pretty good indication.
That and he's skinny with bad teeth. Never seen a white supremacist who wasn't either skinny with bad teeth or a minimum of 200 lbs overweight. For people so convinced whites are superior, they're often really, really poor examples of superior anything.
quote:
Wearing regular leathers wouldn't cause an issue though, right?
Sure. But don't you want to demonstrate your pride and membership in organizations that you belong to?
Take Aggies, for example. How much pride do you have in your Aggie ring, your degree, your Association of Former Students membership? You worked had for those symbols, and you are proud of what you did to earn them and the group that you belong to. Telling a club not to wear their patches and such would be like telling an Aggie not to wear his ring, not tohang his degree up, to take off his Association sticker, to never wear maroon, and to not tell anyone that they are an Aggie.
quote:quote:
How much pride do you have in your Aggie ring, your degree, your Association of Former Students membership? You worked had for those symbols, and you are proud of what you did to earn them and the group that you belong to. Telling a club not to wear their patches and such would be like telling an Aggie not to wear his ring, not tohang his degree up, to take off his Association sticker, to never wear maroon, and to not tell anyone that they are an Aggie.
If a group of Aggies get into a shootout with a bunch of LSU fans at a Waffle House over who claims Houston and 9 people die, you might have a point.
Until then......lol.
I was unaware they served corn dogs at the Waffle House...
Do any of these gangs not have better taste in logo design? Every logo looks like some cartoon character; not very ferocious or intimidating if you ask me.
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