If you guys are going to social justice warrior (which I strongly support, including following @naacp on Twitter) does it really have to be done here? Usually movie threads are just to discuss the merits of a particular cinematic release.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

This movie will do well because it's good or simply because it's being heavily marketed, or fail because it looks kind of awful, not much to do with race either way.

Redstone is known for being more than a bit of a troll on here, FYI.

---

I know he is and yet I still took the bait, didn't I?

---

Well, in your defense I think there's an interesting discussion to be had on this topic. He's probably just not the one to have it with

---

Haha, true enough. I agree that it is an interesting topic. I think you see some of the same issues in what the whole gamergate thing morphed into.

---

Yeah, I'd like to think that comic readers are a bit more thoughtful bunch, but I imagine you've got your idiots like any other demographic.

It is interesting to see even the big two moving towards more diversity in their heroes, DC in particular with several new announced titles. And I'm all for heroes with more unique and varying backgrounds, makes for good storytelling.

quote:

---

If you guys are going to social justice warrior (which I strongly support, including following @naacp on Twitter) does it really have to be done here? Usually movie threads are just to discuss the merits of a particular cinematic release.

---

lol, you were the one who started it. Troll confirmed.

So I'm the only one that thinks this movie looks good? The director's previous movie was pretty damn good, and it has 2 actors in it that I think are excellent.

quote:

---

So I'm the only one that thinks this movie looks good? The director's previous movie was pretty damn good, and it has 2 actors in it that I think are excellent.

---

I'll probably go see it at a matinee one afternoon. Not going to spend a bunch a money or date night capital getting the GF to go see it with me. None of my friends really want to go see it either.

I'll think it will wind up being entertaining, but not at the level we've seen from Marvel the last few years.

If this was released pre-MCU, I think people would be making a much bigger deal of it.

I'm trying to hold out hope but I have concerns.

Rumors are that production was a trainwreck and the director was checked out for large portions of filming (and I liked Chronicle too btw), and the tone just seems all over the place and kind of off for these characters.

To me it's feeling like the Smallville take on Superman, not that much to do with the original characters and aimed squarely at the CW crowd. I'd love to be wrong.

quote:

---

I see the F4 marketing as the opposite of the marketing for Deadpool. These are both films that might fail spectacularly (for different reasons), but Deadpool knows exactly what it is. It will live or die on its own merits and flaws.

What is F4? Is it a pure superhero flick? Some of the trailers push it as a sort of broody military film. Is it hard sci fi? I have no idea what the tone and theme of the movie will be. That will hurt it.

---

Bingo. Deadpool seems self aware of what it is, and by appearances is going to run with it. Outside of the trailers, I haven't seen much in the way of marketing for FF4, granted I haven't been following as close as I have any of the MCU. Or hell, even as close as I have been watching the DC films.

The film does seem to have a bit of an identity crisis in that I can't tell why the military is involved, at all. I'm not entirely clear how inter-dimensional travel is playing into this other than to try and pull in science fiction fans. It's kind of like Fox looked at the Avenges and said, "Hey, we have an opportunity for a team based film with the FF4 but we need to pull in something interesting to appeal to more than just comic book film fans."

I'm thinking that this film will likely flop critically and review wise, but will make enough money to break even domestically. The question will be its performance overseas, and if Fox will want to try and actually build a franchise out it. I'm betting that sequel plans would probably be cancelled, but I'll admit that I'm taking a rather pessimistic look at it.

quote:

---

Rumors are that production was a trainwreck and the director was checked out for large portions of filming (and I liked Chronicle too btw), and the tone just seems all over the place and kind of off for these characters.

---

The director sounds like a real life Billy Walsh


I think the biggest concern I have with this movie is that it looks flat boring. Super hero movies can look like a lot of things... terrible, cheesy, over the top... but boring should never be one of them.

You know what the turn off is for me? They simply seem to be rehashing what we already saw ten years ago with the Jessica Alba version. Sure, they changed a few details (interdimensional travel compared to space travel), but that to me just seems the lazy way out of differentiating itself.

You're rebooting a franchise that many people, even non comic book fans, remember. So go out on a limb and do something besides their origin and fighting Dr. Doom.

Yeah I agree... It looks like the exact same car, with just a new coat of paint.

Agreed. Kind of like the Amazing Spider-Man... though at least that one gave us a funnier version of the hero, a villain we hadn't seen before (the Lizard), and a different love interest. Not that I rushed out to see it because it was a blonde actress instead of a redhead or anything... I caught it on DVR someday down the road. But at least it didn't seem like a complete rehash.

The concept of the heroes being militarized is kind of interesting, but it still seems like more of a subplot. Doctor Doom threatening the world is more or less the main point. Hopefully he'll look cooler and have cooler powers this time. But........ yeah.

We'll see. Anxious to see what the critics say.

So far they're saying it sucks

/anyone really surprised?

I find it really hard to believe this movie is below green lantern level (which I was okish for me even) at 20%. The trailer looks like a rehash, but it doesn't look that bad. I think this is one of those movies that people/critics are just going to love to hate.

If not great or groundbreaking in some way, I really think this one was always going to be DOA.

If it was just any movie, it would just fly under the radar, but it's a Marvel property, which regardless of studio sets the bar VERY high to begin with. Probably unfairly so.

I disagree with that, bangobango. All three FF movies have made disastrous choices regarding casting, plot or tone which have led to the failures we've seen. And before anyone thinks I'm talking about Jordan being cast as the Torch, that's not it. Jessica Alba is nice to look at, but she was all wrong for the role of Sue Storm.

One of the biggest traps these movies fall into is making Reed Richards a socially awkward nerd. When the movies do this, they make him a joke and the audience can't take him seriously as a hero. It's a cliche. Reed Richards is the smartest guy in the room, and needs to be played by someone who can present a charisma that would inspire the others to follow him anywhere. Miles Teller awkwardly slapping hands with Jordan who's attempting to fist-bump him? Great, he's now a doofus. Also, the first two movies had Richards use his powers in ridiculous ways - grabbing toilet paper from across the hall, putting luggage in an overhead bin across the aisle - why would anyone take his powers seriously? Make his powers a joke and they'll be joke. Mrs. Incredible had the same damn powers and she kicked ass in The Incredibles (which is the best version of F4 we've got).

The Thing needs to be CGI, but, damn, make him closer to the comics version. This abomination that's in F4 is ridiculous looking, particularly if you're looking at the legs - looks like an action figure. And no pants? His alienation from the rest of the group needs to be played up, sure, but the first two made it a joke. Oh, no, he's got to take the freight elevator. Oh, no, a pigeon pooped on him. Moping around isn't Ben Grimm's style - he's got an internal strength that allows him to deal with it, and even revel in it.

And the damn movie needs to stay away from the words "grounded" and "realistic" (all superhero movies need to get away from that - it's ridiculous). This doesn't mean go to camp, which is what the first two did, but it doesn't mean throw away all the things that make it a comic book, either. The FF's tone has never been "gritty"; it needs to emphasize the pursuit of science and the risks that accompany that exploration.

With reviews coming out, it's sitting at an 18% at Rotten Tomatoes - yeesh!

A video review from one of my favorites, Mr. Sunday Movies.

Sounds like a mess. Editing and production gone wrong.

I haven't followed this at all. And I know nothing about the franchise

Is this supposed to be in the x-men movie universe?
The spider man movie universe?
Supermans?
Batmans?
The big marvel one with captain America and iron man ?
Lee's hulk?

By itself?

It's a Fox Studios movie, which means it's theoretically in the same universe as the X-Men. Based on the car-wreck of a film F 4 apparently is, a crossover won't be happening anytime soon, if at all.

I think so far it's by itself but if it does good Fox may want to do a crossover with X-Men.

quote:

---

I find it really hard to believe this movie is below green lantern level (which I was okish for me even) at 20%. The trailer looks like a rehash, but it doesn't look that bad. I think this is one of those movies that people/critics are just going to love to hate.

---

I'm sure this film will get its share of apologists, but there is no denying that even based on the trailer it feels like a complete mess. Between rhutton125's link to a video review, and the review that I read last night on RT, I think my concerns regarding this film being a disjointed mess are somewhat validated.

quote:

---

I haven't followed this at all. And I know nothing about the franchise

Is this supposed to be in the x-men movie universe?
The spider man movie universe?
Supermans?
Batmans?
The big marvel one with captain America and iron man ?
Lee's hulk?

By itself?

---

By itself

Thanks

It is a shame that this movie appears not to have turned out great. It had an absolutely amazing cast to work with and a good director.

so sad.

quote:

---

It is a shame that this movie appears not to have turned out great. It had an absolutely amazing cast to work with and a good director.

so sad.

---

Do some reading on the director and this film. Billy Walsh sounds like a reasonable comparison

As far as superhero files in general, I think we're getting to a point of saturation where the films actually have to be good. After Iron Man, the MCU films that followed had almost instant buzz because they were superhero films that weren't horribly cheezy like some of the older Batman films had become, even at their worst they're pretty good popcorn films.

Now, however, there's so many that they have to deliver something a bit more. Winter Soldier was more of a big budget spy film than a traditional superhero movie, Guardians of the Galaxy had a unique voice and style and was just an incredibly well crafted movie, Ant-Man is a pretty fun heist film, and as mentioned above Deadpool looks to have an outstanding sense of what it wants to be and is nailing that very specific voice.

In contrast you have FF, a film about 4 regular people who acquire unique abilities (seen that), have to learn to become an unlikely team (seen that), and then must come together to fight a villain from their past they can't defeat on their own (seen that). There's just nothing especially unique about the characters that make this a must see film.

The early films at least touched on the idea that FF were something of celebrity superheroes. trying to play the film from that aspect or maybe relying heavily on the family/friends thread might work, but just making it a film about people acquiring powers and becoming heroes has been done several times. This same director appears to have previously done it much better himself in Chronicle.

Devin Faraci at Birth.Movies.Death has the most interesting review of this movie I've read so far.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/08/05/fantastic-four-review-its-clobberin-time

quote:

---

What this film does is something different, something actually sort of in line with the original Challengers of the Unknown. This Fantastic Four is a science fiction movie, and it's a cracking good one until the third act when it is dragged kicking and screaming into being a superhero movie and falls apart.

...

As much of a letdown as the ending is, I like the actors here. I like this iteration of the characters. I like this world, one that has a foot in reality and a foot in the sort of gee-whiz scifi where whiz kids build and use a dimensional transporter. Yes, Fantastic Four faceplants, but there's too much good in here to dismiss it completely. There's too much quality, too much talent on display to hope that this iteration joins the rest on the trash heap of history. What the movie gets wrong is infuriating and disappointing, but what it gets right completely captures what I want a movie like this to be.

---

I'm as excited as ever to see this now, but for different reasons than before. Faraci is the only reviewer so far that I've read who talks about the movie outside the context of it being a "comic book movie," and what he says in that regard is indeed promising.

It's entirely possible, nay highly probable, that this fails completely as a "Fantastic Four movie," which is unfortunate in its own right. But I want to see for myself if it has other components that are interesting, even if the sum total is a let down.

Trying to make a "Fantastic Four movie" is really the mistake to begin with. The star of the movie should probably be the danger and excitement of interdimensional travel. The conflict should probably be rooted in the sci fi tradition of "look what our misuse of science has wrought!" What if Reed was a world famous science celebrity to start, arrogant and overconfident, who is really truly responsible for the plight of his friends and the unleashing of Doom?

I say this without having seen it, of course. Just thinking of how else it could go.

After 29 reviews, only three have been positive so far. That is quite a mess.

My hope now is that it will bomb tremendously, sequel plans will be cancelled, and somehow Marvel will get the rights back. That's not because I want to see another attempt at Fantastic Four, but because I'd rather a movie be made because someone is passionate about the material and the time is right than making one every so often to retain rights to the characters.

I think Fantastic Four 2015 was a film nobody asked for, nobody cared about, and now nobody will see. Oof.

quote:

---

After 29 reviews, only three have been positive so far. That is quite a mess.

My hope now is that it will bomb tremendously, sequel plans will be cancelled, and somehow Marvel will get the rights back. That's not because I want to see another attempt at Fantastic Four, but because I'd rather a movie be made because someone is passionate about the material and the time is right than making one every so often to retain rights to the characters.

I think Fantastic Four 2015 was a film nobody asked for, nobody cared about, and now nobody will see. Oof.

---

Marvel getting F4 back would be a benefit for more secondary characters, I think. Doom could be a villain in the next Phase. Silver Surfer/Galactus could be used in Guardians/Nova/etc. Human Torch could be used with Spider-Man, which has always been a good pairing.

Critics liked Pixels more than this movie.

Let that sink in.

The only good thing about Marvel being in a better position to get these rights back is the ancillary characters: Silver Surfer, Galactus, the Skrulls (?), Doom, access to the Negative Zone, etc.

The Fantastic Four are pretty much useless now. Unwanted, unloved. Comic cancelled.

I wonder if Fox would consider selling the rights back at this point. Marvel has Disney money - I can't imagine at this point FF id THAT valuable to Fox, who apparently has no idea how to handle the property.

I doubt they'd be able to get much for it. Marvel has the MCU so well planned out for the next 15 years that there's really no motivation for them to shuffle things around to fit in the FF or any of the associated villains.

If Marvel gets the rights back they'll most likely sit on the shelf for a decade or more, we probably wouldn't see anything from it until Phase 4 or beyond.

I'm just thinking that the Silver Surfer could work really well in the GotG movies.

I'm starting to think the source material just doesn't make for a good comic book movie. Sorry FF4 fans, but that may be a hard pill to swallow, but it may be time to accept it.

You can say "well Marvel could do it" or "Fox is just bad at it" all you want, but Fox has done just fine with X-Men, and looks like they're going to do just fine with Deadpool. They haven't used actors, directors, or writers of any lower caliber than they did on X-Men or Marvel used in the MCU.

Yet once again they fail to deliver.

Maybe it's time you just look critically at the source material and ask yourself if the problem isn't with the studio after all.

4 movies now

FOUR

In a row.

There has NEVER been a Fantastic Four movie that was as good as even the worst X-Men or MCU movie.

Like I said, at what point do you start connecting the dots? How good a director and how good a cast do they have to throw at the next one before it's written off?

I suspect that one of the reasons it's so hard to make a Fantastic Four movie is that the comics are absolutely bonkers, and their origin story and powers are utter nonsense, even by comic book standards.

It works well in comic books, and it certainly worked well decades ago when they were conceived, but today it just requires a little too much "throw everything out of your brain" to accept.

Maybe if you got them into the MCU you could throw in some witty comments from the rest of the heros about how completely nutso their entire existence is.

Gah, it's killing me not seeing this movie. I need to see it for myself ASAP so I can really have an informed opinion. I want to see if my suspicions about what works and what doesn't are correct.