In reply to The Chicken Ranch
I agree Chicken Ranch. Investigate , get proof , throw the book at the perps and if there are witnesses who didn't say anything them charge them as accessories. If a coach was told and did nothing then they are guilty .
7:26a, 5/25/17
In reply to Zombie Jon Snow
I doubt the Title IX fiasco was done to cover up just the athletic dept rape culture. More likely they wanted to continue to pretend rape didn't happen at Baylor.
Thing is, it wasn't just the athletic program. The entire school failed to implement the required title IX office for years. Then when they did, they allegedly withheld the resources requested by the Title IX coordinator and when she and others on her staff quit in disgust, they blamed everything on her.Zombie Jon Snow said:
I disagree.
They need to shut down their entire athletic program. Period.
I doubt the Title IX fiasco was done to cover up just the athletic dept rape culture. More likely they wanted to continue to pretend rape didn't happen at Baylor.
9:22a, 5/25/17
In reply to The Chicken Ranch
TBH, baylor fans are just as bad as the players with their victim blaming and shaming. They deserve it as much as the program. I think justice for the victims is that the school that went so far to cover all of this up permanently loses what they were trying so hard to protect. Nothing can unrape them, but baylor losing their football program would be poetic justice.
The Chicken Ranch said:Irish_Man said:GAC06 said:This is much worse than Penn StateThe Chicken Ranch said:
Good lord no. I'm no Baylor fan but this is stupid.
Penn State still has a team, and Baylor needs to keep their team also.
Is it?
I'm not sure how to rank child rape vs football players raping female college students.
They're both god awful, terrible and disgusting. I'm just not sure how to say one is more evil than the other.
But in the end, hasn't the NCAA already said they will do nothing?
This is basically where I am with it. All of these things are criminal matters. Sure, you can revoke scholarships and do a bowl ban. At the end of the day these matters need to be brought to justice in a criminal court.
A football death penalty punishes the fans just as much as the team, and it doesn't bring one iota of justice to the victims.
Throw all the perpetrators in jail. That's what needs to happen.
TBH, baylor fans are just as bad as the players with their victim blaming and shaming. They deserve it as much as the program. I think justice for the victims is that the school that went so far to cover all of this up permanently loses what they were trying so hard to protect. Nothing can unrape them, but baylor losing their football program would be poetic justice.
10:32a, 5/25/17
If you agree with this, and have read about the atrocities occurring within/around their program...it's hard to imagine you'd be against them shutting down the program.Quote:
I agree Chicken Ranch. Investigate , get proof , throw the book at the perps and if there are witnesses who didn't say anything them charge them as accessories. If a coach was told and did nothing then they are guilty .
The program was the engine for the rapes/assaults.
10:49a, 5/25/17
In reply to Zombie Jon Snow
This, all for it,...
They still owe a lot of money on the football stadium. It should sit empty and unused except for an occasional tractor pull event. The rest of the program should go down with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/11/10/baylor-donor-mclane-wants-art-briles-honor-restored/93612712/
Zombie Jon Snow said:
They need to shut down their entire athletic program. Period.
This, all for it,...
They still owe a lot of money on the football stadium. It should sit empty and unused except for an occasional tractor pull event. The rest of the program should go down with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/11/10/baylor-donor-mclane-wants-art-briles-honor-restored/93612712/
10:54a, 5/25/17
In reply to GAC06
How so?GAC06 said:This is much worse than Penn StateThe Chicken Ranch said:
Good lord no. I'm no Baylor fan but this is stupid.
Penn State still has a team, and Baylor needs to keep their team also.
6:10p, 5/26/17
In reply to SchizoAg
Absolutely incorrect. For criminal purposes, that would be the right course of action and attitude. But many in our population believe that extends to the private sector as well, when it doesn't. (Same with free speech - go ahead and criticize your employer publicly then ATTEMPT to sue once you get canned).
Baylor could have and should have acted based on the initial allegations especially given the circumstancial evidence they had. Now the NCAA has even more. Blow it up.
SchizoAg said:
I know this is an unpopular opinion around here (and in the Burnt Orange media especially), but until such time as someone is charged with and convicted of an actual crime, they should be presumed innocent. I don't care how much hearsay and circumstantial evidence is floating around in the media.
Absolutely incorrect. For criminal purposes, that would be the right course of action and attitude. But many in our population believe that extends to the private sector as well, when it doesn't. (Same with free speech - go ahead and criticize your employer publicly then ATTEMPT to sue once you get canned).
Baylor could have and should have acted based on the initial allegations especially given the circumstancial evidence they had. Now the NCAA has even more. Blow it up.
6:39p, 5/26/17
In reply to SchizoAg
If we are talking criminally, then yes. But we are talking about civil suits, where the question is did the actions (or inactions) of the defendant(s) result in the injury suffered by the plaintiff? Technically, we cannot answer that question in the affirmative, because they've all settled before the cases went anywhere.
I'm still hoping that baylol decides not to relax and enjoy it, and actually fight one of these cases, because the discovery and reading the depositions would be epic.
SchizoAg said:
I know this is an unpopular opinion around here (and in the Burnt Orange media especially), but until such time as someone is charged with and convicted of an actual crime, they should be presumed innocent. I don't care how much hearsay and circumstantial evidence is floating around in the media.
If we are talking criminally, then yes. But we are talking about civil suits, where the question is did the actions (or inactions) of the defendant(s) result in the injury suffered by the plaintiff? Technically, we cannot answer that question in the affirmative, because they've all settled before the cases went anywhere.
I'm still hoping that baylol decides not to relax and enjoy it, and actually fight one of these cases, because the discovery and reading the depositions would be epic.
9:04p, 6/2/17
In reply to GAC06
No. Penn State looked down their nose at everybody while their Joe Pa turned the other way and even enabled Sandusky. For what? To avoid damaging their program. Plain and simple. Remember when they all started learning of the scope of what happened? A Penn State pep rally! No....heck with them.
GAC06 said:This is much worse than Penn StateThe Chicken Ranch said:
Good lord no. I'm no Baylor fan but this is stupid.
Penn State still has a team, and Baylor needs to keep their team also.
No. Penn State looked down their nose at everybody while their Joe Pa turned the other way and even enabled Sandusky. For what? To avoid damaging their program. Plain and simple. Remember when they all started learning of the scope of what happened? A Penn State pep rally! No....heck with them.
12:11a, 6/5/17
Agreed, Penn State deserved a lot more than they got. The alumni and student body closed ranks around their football program the Death Penalty would have been appropriate to bring them to their senses.Quote:
No. Penn State looked down their nose at everybody while their Joe Pa turned the other way and even enabled Sandusky. For what? To avoid damaging their program. Plain and simple. Remember when they all started learning of the scope of what happened? A Penn State pep rally! No....heck with them.
Bayrol is a textbook case of Loss of Institutional Control and are repeat offenders with multiple rapes among the football team and a previous murder and cover up on the basketball side of the house. It appears that the Bayrol Administration has repeatedly done every thing it could to cover up things for the football players actions.
The NCAA should have dropped the hammer on Penn State, but Penn State was too powerful and had to many influential alumni. The NCAA chickened out. On the other hand, Bayrol is an arguably much worse situation, has a small fan and alumni base and is in a barely relevant conference. If the NCAA wants to maintain any authority it should burn Bayrol Athletics to the ground.
7:01a, 6/5/17
In reply to PCC_80
Counter argument is that Baylor is in the weakest (in terms of conference stability) of the P5 conferences. A Baylor death penalty will certainly and obviously bring about major structural changes. Yes, it can be argued that SMU death penalty lead to the death of the SWC, but a Baylor death penalty will certainly and quickly lead to the desolation of the B12. Still, just an additional factor to the sip manipulations, but you know sip media will point to Baylor death penalty as the reason and spin that tu was the victim.PaulC_80 said:Agreed, Penn State deserved a lot more than they got. The alumni and student body closed ranks around their football program the Death Penalty would have been appropriate to bring them to their senses.Quote:
No. Penn State looked down their nose at everybody while their Joe Pa turned the other way and even enabled Sandusky. For what? To avoid damaging their program. Plain and simple. Remember when they all started learning of the scope of what happened? A Penn State pep rally! No....heck with them.
Bayrol is a textbook case of Loss of Institutional Control and are repeat offenders with multiple rapes among the football team and a previous murder and cover up on the basketball side of the house. It appears that the Bayrol Administration has repeatedly done every thing it could to cover up things for the football players actions.
The NCAA should have dropped the hammer on Penn State, but Penn State was too powerful and had to many influential alumni. The NCAA chickened out. On the other hand, Bayrol is an arguably much worse situation, has a small fan and alumni base and is in a barely relevant conference. If the NCAA wants to maintain any authority it should burn Bayrol Athletics to the ground.
12:13p, 6/5/17
While I totally agree that baylor SHOULD get the death penalty, they won't.
Sadly, it's just not going to happen .... ever.
I do think baylor will get hit pretty hard (by today's NCAA standards).
Multi-year post-season ban and multi-year loss of scholarships.
Probably a USC/ReggieBush type of punishment.
Sadly, it's just not going to happen .... ever.
I do think baylor will get hit pretty hard (by today's NCAA standards).
Multi-year post-season ban and multi-year loss of scholarships.
Probably a USC/ReggieBush type of punishment.
1:03p, 6/6/17
In reply to Cy_Tolliver
SMU was easy for the NCAA. They had a repeat offender and could point to NCAA rules that said you can't pay players. There was a formal process for payments, so this triggered the "lack of institutional control."
2:59p, 6/6/17
In reply to 45-70Ag
But wasn't the penn state stuff brought to light not long ago? Wasn't it only after the GA said something that the chips started to fall, whereas in Baylor's case, theses cats knew from day one? I thought this stuff at penn state has been happening for a while, but no one knew about it until the very end. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, both are horrible events.Irish_Man said:GAC06 said:This is much worse than Penn StateThe Chicken Ranch said:
Good lord no. I'm no Baylor fan but this is stupid.
Penn State still has a team, and Baylor needs to keep their team also.
Is it?
I'm not sure how to rank child rape vs football players raping female college students.
They're both god awful, terrible and disgusting. I'm just not sure how to say one is more evil than the other.
But in the end, hasn't the NCAA already said they will do nothing?
3:24p, 6/6/17
In reply to Cy_Tolliver
The SMU case (and the OleMiss case today) is easier for the NCAA .... they are rules violations.
The PSU and BU cases are criminal; that's the purview of McLennan County and the state of Texas.
With that said, BU did gain a competitive advantage by keeping players on the roster & playing that should have been kicked off the team (minimum) and/or incarcerated.
The competitive advantage angle is within the NCAA's purview .... ie, rules, not laws.
I do expect BU to get hit hard by the feds (DOJ, DOE) under Title 9 violations.
I do expect BU to get some sort of sanctions by the NCAA, but I fear we will all be rather disappointed at the severity.
Additionally, I would hope that McLennan County and the state of Texas do something!
Couldn't agree more, BUT the NCAA is not a law enforcement entity.Cy_Tolliver said:
Nothing that happened at SMU even approaches what Baylor as an institution has done.
The SMU case (and the OleMiss case today) is easier for the NCAA .... they are rules violations.
The PSU and BU cases are criminal; that's the purview of McLennan County and the state of Texas.
With that said, BU did gain a competitive advantage by keeping players on the roster & playing that should have been kicked off the team (minimum) and/or incarcerated.
The competitive advantage angle is within the NCAA's purview .... ie, rules, not laws.
I do expect BU to get hit hard by the feds (DOJ, DOE) under Title 9 violations.
I do expect BU to get some sort of sanctions by the NCAA, but I fear we will all be rather disappointed at the severity.
Additionally, I would hope that McLennan County and the state of Texas do something!
5:49p, 6/6/17
In reply to BESCo91
That said, if DOJ and DOe bring the title IX hammer and withhold federal funding, I would imaging Texas piles on and withholds the tuition equalization grants.
I suspect if DOJ and DOE bring the hammer, McLennan County and Texas will be limited to prosecuting rapists. If DOJ uncovers some slam dunk case of conspiracy to commit rape or accessory to rape, then maybe a coach or admin gets some criminal charges too.BESCo91 said:Couldn't agree more, BUT the NCAA is not a law enforcement entity.Cy_Tolliver said:
Nothing that happened at SMU even approaches what Baylor as an institution has done.
The SMU case (and the OleMiss case today) is easier for the NCAA .... they are rules violations.
The PSU and BU cases are criminal; that's the purview of McLennan County and the state of Texas.
With that said, BU did gain a competitive advantage by keeping players on the roster & playing that should have been kicked off the team (minimum) and/or incarcerated.
The competitive advantage angle is within the NCAA's purview .... ie, rules, not laws.
I do expect BU to get hit hard by the feds (DOJ, DOE) until Title 9 violations.
I do expect BU to get some sort of sanctions by the NCAA, but I fear we will all be rather disappointed at the severity.
Additionally, I would hope that McLennan County and the state of Texas do something!
That said, if DOJ and DOe bring the title IX hammer and withhold federal funding, I would imaging Texas piles on and withholds the tuition equalization grants.
10:21p, 6/6/17
The SMU issue was about telling lies and flipping coins. The Baylor issue is about telling lies and raping women. Two different situations completely. Taking cash from boosters is an NCAA related crime. Raping women is a crime punishable at many levels in our court system. Again two different situations.
Really want to make point in this? Cut their nuts off.
Really want to make point in this? Cut their nuts off.