***********2023-2024 San Antonio Spurs Thread********************

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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:01p, 4/22/24
AG
I think it changes if he can be a decent knock down shooter though. My biggest concern is his defense. But at least he has size.

Edit: also, I think Wemby can be an elite secondary playmaker. However, getting to a Jokic level isn't a given so it doesn't hurt having another guy who can do it differently.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 9:06p, 4/22/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
I think it changes if he can be a decent knock down shooter though. My biggest concern is his defense. But at least he has size.
If his shot didn't need a complete overhaul, it would be a no brainer. But it needs a complete overhaul AND he is awful (with no effort) defensively. Even best case scenario, I think he is Goran Dragic in a best case scenario. More likely a taller Ricky Rubio without defense.
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Guitarsoup
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9:05a, 4/23/24
AG
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Guitarsoup
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7:23p, 4/23/24
AG
Watched that Topic video and he may be rusty, but the passes go to the right guy, they are all off a little.


First ten minutes are Reed scoring. The 10 minute mark is where Reed passing starts.




Better shooter, maybe slightly worse or even passer, significantly better at defense.

Reed all day over Dilly or Topic.
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West Texan
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 8:08p, 4/23/24
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Watched that Topic video and he may be rusty, but the passes go to the right guy, they are all off a little.


First ten minutes are Reed scoring. The 10 minute mark is where Reed passing starts.




Better shooter, maybe slightly worse or even passer, significantly better at defense.

Reed all day over Dilly or Topic.


Absolutely Reed over Topic. If he were the same size, he'd be the number 1 pick.
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jteagle
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9:42p, 4/23/24
AG
It's almost comical this year. Every year fans have their favorites in the draft but this year you almost can't get a consensus. You guys are super high on Sheppard which I totally get. Then I have seen guys that say there is no way we should touch him. It is almost that way with every player. Some are still high on Risacher, while some have forgotten about him as an option because of his slump.
It's going to make draft night really interesting. One thing is for sure. For every fan than that is happy with the Spurs pick, there will be 50 who are upset.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to jteagle • 9:48p, 4/23/24
AG
jteagle said:
It's almost comical this year. Every year fans have their favorites in the draft but this year you almost can't get a consensus. You guys are super high on Sheppard which I totally get. Then I have seen guys that say there is no way we should touch him. It is almost that way with every player. Some are still high on Risacher, while some have forgotten about him as an option because of his slump.
It's going to make draft night really interesting. One thing is for sure. For every fan than that is happy with the Spurs pick, there will be 50 who are upset.
I haven't seen many that hate Shepperd as a pick. Seems like a much higher floor than some of the other options. He probably doesn't have as high a ceiling as someone like Sarr or maybe Holland if he learns to shoot, but his floor is definitely above a guy like Dillingham or Topic.
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Sher Thing
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10:10p, 4/23/24
AG
Be interested to see how Sheppard measures out.

I like him as a player but it is alright to say that he would still be a very underwhelming top 5 pick. Just a really weak draft. Want to see Dillingham's measurements also. Saying that, I think you will see some guys really jump up the boards/mock drafts once workouts start up that most might not even be thinking about.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to West Texan • 10:14p, 4/23/24
AG
West Texan said:
Guitarsoup said:
Watched that Topic video and he may be rusty, but the passes go to the right guy, they are all off a little.


First ten minutes are Reed scoring. The 10 minute mark is where Reed passing starts.




Better shooter, maybe slightly worse or even passer, significantly better at defense.

Reed all day over Dilly or Topic.


Absolutely Reed over Topic. If he were the same size, he'd be the number 1 pick.

John Stockton was only 6'1". Just sayin.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to jteagle • 10:17p, 4/23/24
AG
I feel like the pissed off fan to satisfied fan ratio was only bad with the Primo pick. I think most of us blindly trust in the front office.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 10:27p, 4/23/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
West Texan said:
Guitarsoup said:
Watched that Topic video and he may be rusty, but the passes go to the right guy, they are all off a little.


First ten minutes are Reed scoring. The 10 minute mark is where Reed passing starts.




Better shooter, maybe slightly worse or even passer, significantly better at defense.

Reed all day over Dilly or Topic.


Absolutely Reed over Topic. If he were the same size, he'd be the number 1 pick.

John Stockton was only 6'1". Just sayin.


You mean the most overrated PG of all time?
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superunknown
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 10:46p, 4/23/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
I feel like the pissed off fan to satisfied fan ratio was only bad with the Primo pick. I think most of us blindly trust in the front office.


I admit I blindly trust PATFO, the FO trust is built (for me) in P and I'm fine with it.

Watching the Wolves/Suns game made me miss playoff basketball bad. There's just something timeless about the Suns looking completely small in the situation and out of their element. I miss the Spurs doing that to them, even though it's still fun to watch.

Something that caught my eye the other day...Onsi Saleh has been named assistant GM in Atlanta. He was a VP at Golden State and his role there was primarily as a cap/CBA expert. He hadn't been there long, maybe 2-3 years. Prior to that he was with the Spurs as general counsel and also dealing with CBA issues.

It just makes me wonder...there's a lot of "corporate knowledge" born from the Spurs all in the ATL hierarchy these days, in addition to DJM of course. Meanwhile in SA we have their picks for a few years. Maybe there's something deeper, or maybe not. It just seemed to strike me as peculiar if not just coincidental.



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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to superunknown • 10:55p, 4/23/24
AG
Quinn has SS&E ties too. It's some Spurs nba Illuminati ****. We are definitely getting Murray back and a 2025 top 3 player from our Atlanta pick.
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jteagle
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 5:55a, 4/24/24
AG
Guitarsoup said:
jteagle said:
It's almost comical this year. Every year fans have their favorites in the draft but this year you almost can't get a consensus. You guys are super high on Sheppard which I totally get. Then I have seen guys that say there is no way we should touch him. It is almost that way with every player. Some are still high on Risacher, while some have forgotten about him as an option because of his slump.
It's going to make draft night really interesting. One thing is for sure. For every fan than that is happy with the Spurs pick, there will be 50 who are upset.
I haven't seen many that hate Shepperd as a pick. Seems like a much higher floor than some of the other options. He probably doesn't have as high a ceiling as someone like Sarr or maybe Holland if he learns to shoot, but his floor is definitely above a guy like Dillingham or Topic.

I have to admit, I am retired and have way too much time on my hands and read way too much. But there is a segment of Spurs fans that think Sheppard is not quick enough or athletic enough for the NBA. Personally, I think 50% from 3 alone is worth taking a chance on.
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jteagle
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 6:01a, 4/24/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
I feel like the pissed off fan to satisfied fan ratio was only bad with the Primo pick. I think most of us blindly trust in the front office.

I agree. For the most part, whatever pick is made on draft night, I will be OK with because I do trust that they have done their homework.
Still torn on what happens to the Toronto pick. The 2025 draft is so stacked that it would be awesome to have 4 picks(possibly 5) in that draft.
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Enzo The Baker
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9:46a, 4/24/24
AG
The ringer draft podcast with KOC talks about Topic today. I didn't realize Topic doesn't turn 19 until August. Topic shoots 85%+ from the FT line so I'm not really concerned about his shot yet. Again, to me it's about his defense and injury but he's still a baby and could have the highest upside of the players available to the Spurs in this draft, while fitting a position of need.

Edit: I'll also add that just having someone with his IQ on this Spurs team would be massive. We need that at the end of the day.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 10:05a, 4/24/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
The ringer draft podcast with KOC talks about Topic today. I didn't realize Topic doesn't turn 19 until August. Topic shoots 85%+ from the FT line so I'm not really concerned about his shot yet. Again, to me it's about his defense and injury but he's still a baby and could have the highest upside of the players available to the Spurs in this draft, while fitting a position of need.

Edit: I'll also add that just having someone with his IQ on this Spurs team would be massive. We need that at the end of the day.
He shot is concerning because a) he never shoots and b) his arc is super low (decreasing odds of makes and increasing odds of blocks).

I know a draft analyst that thinks Topic's injury is fine and he just shut it down because he knew his draft floor was still top 10.

My other concern is that his bread and butter, finishing at the rim, might be smoke and mirrors. He literally has 0 dunks and I struggle to imagine that he'll be as successful around the rim against NBA size and athleticism.
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superunknown
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 10:24a, 4/24/24
AG
I was so eager to use the Windhorst meme I forgot to list Quinn as well. Tampering aside, I find it hard to believe dudes who know each other across teams don't talk in hypotheticals. A couple of years ago I cleared it with my boss that I was asked to do some consulting in the same industry but nowhere near competition, and he was like "man, we all talk to our friends and such across companies to compare notes, etc. Don't sweat it."

NBA illuminati or not, people talk.

With this being a poor draft class, best case scenario would be either picking BPA and adjusting FA/trade targets accordingly or just winning #1 again and hoping someone else absolutely falls in love with someone and is willing to trade up to #1 for them. Then we go into next year's draft with 3-5 picks and can fill in whatever blanks we like. I haven't gotten emotionally attached to any of this draft class and I think it's because I can't get past seeing Wemby as a multi-tool that can do (basically) everything and can hide the deficiencies of others, to a point. So for me it's ok to get a Topic or Sheppard or Sarr or Risacher or whoever because we have multiple areas to improve, but we also have Wemby to fill in the gaps until every area is improved, and once the areas are improved its gonna be annual WCF trips plus more.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:25a, 4/24/24
AG
M.C. Swag said:
Enzo The Baker said:
The ringer draft podcast with KOC talks about Topic today. I didn't realize Topic doesn't turn 19 until August. Topic shoots 85%+ from the FT line so I'm not really concerned about his shot yet. Again, to me it's about his defense and injury but he's still a baby and could have the highest upside of the players available to the Spurs in this draft, while fitting a position of need.

Edit: I'll also add that just having someone with his IQ on this Spurs team would be massive. We need that at the end of the day.
He shot is concerning because a) he never shoots and b) his arc is super low (decreasing odds of makes and increasing odds of blocks).

I know a draft analyst that thinks Topic's injury is fine and he just shut it down because he knew his draft floor was still top 10.

My other concern is that his bread and butter, finishing at the rim, might be smoke and mirrors. He literally has 0 dunks and I struggle to imagine that he'll be as successful around the rim against NBA size and athleticism.


Agree 100% about his finishing. This ain't the Adriatic league.

The other thing about his shot besides being low and poor arcing is how slow it is. It isn't smooth or quick and he won't have that much time to gather unless he's being guarded by Trae Young or Rob Dillingham.

It's fine for FTs to be slow and have a low release.

That's why it needs a complete overhaul, which is not a great thing, especially with a difficult adjustment to the NBA and how all but the most elite PGs need time to adjust.

I don't think he's ever going to be a good defender if he just gives up and doesn't put in effort now. And it's probably going to be a while before he is useful on offense without the ball in his hands.

I would just rather have a guy that can impact with our without the ball rather than a guy that only works with the ball in his hands.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 10:30a, 4/24/24
AG
At this point, I would still take Castle as a PG first as his high level defense, rebounding and toughness will translate more easily to the league. But that playmaking skillset of Topic is tantalizing for sure, particularly how he could run sets with Victor when we don't have anyone presently who can do what he does at his size.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to superunknown • 10:33a, 4/24/24
AG
superunknown said:
I was so eager to use the Windhorst meme I forgot to list Quinn as well. Tampering aside, I find it hard to believe dudes who know each other across teams don't talk in hypotheticals. A couple of years ago I cleared it with my boss that I was asked to do some consulting in the same industry but nowhere near competition, and he was like "man, we all talk to our friends and such across companies to compare notes, etc. Don't sweat it."

NBA illuminati or not, people talk.

With this being a poor draft class, best case scenario would be either picking BPA and adjusting FA/trade targets accordingly or just winning #1 again and hoping someone else absolutely falls in love with someone and is willing to trade up to #1 for them. Then we go into next year's draft with 3-5 picks and can fill in whatever blanks we like. I haven't gotten emotionally attached to any of this draft class and I think it's because I can't get past seeing Wemby as a multi-tool that can do (basically) everything and can hide the deficiencies of others, to a point. So for me it's ok to get a Topic or Sheppard or Sarr or Risacher or whoever because we have multiple areas to improve, but we also have Wemby to fill in the gaps until every area is improved, and once the areas are improved its gonna be annual WCF trips plus more.


I agree.

Also, I am going to keep pushing this notion that the Spots are going to keep using Wemby as a focal point like Joker because it is so dangerous to other teams. Cut off the passing lanes and he beats you 1:1. Double him and he find the shooter or cutter. Same with Bron, Jordan, Magic, Joker, etc. Wemby has the distinct advantage of having a better view of the court than any of them.

So we want guys like Derrick White, Devin Vassell, Reed Sheppard, Aaron Gordon, Jamal Murray, Alex Caruso, etc that can hurt you with or without the ball.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 10:35a, 4/24/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
At this point, I would still take Castle as a PG first as his high level defense, rebounding and toughness will translate more easily to the league. But that playmaking skillset of Topic is tantalizing for sure, particularly how he could run sets with Victor when we don't have anyone presently who can do what he does at his size.


I think Castle is a great choice, because I think you can slot him 1-3 and be fine. Shep is just going to give you that extra shooting. If we ended up with both, I wouldn't be sad. Bye Malaki and Wesley.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 10:40a, 4/24/24
AG
My god. What an upgrade that would be.
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TheNotoriousP.I.P.
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11:24a, 4/24/24
AG
Topic, Dillingham, and Clingan are really the only projected top picks I'd be disappointed with. Clingan doesn't fit at all so I don't think we have to worry about us going that direction, but I'd rather at least draft someone who's not going to be a severe negative on defense (Knecht is my exception because that mf has a strap on him). With Vic we have the ability to be a defensively dominant team, I think we need to be building around that. If we put a team out there where Devin is your worst defender, we are going to have a reliable team identity.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to TheNotoriousP.I.P. • 11:45a, 4/24/24
AG
TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:
Topic, Dillingham, and Clingan are really the only projected top picks I'd be disappointed with. Clingan doesn't fit at all so I don't think we have to worry about us going that direction, but I'd rather at least draft someone who's not going to be a severe negative on defense (Knecht is my exception because that mf has a strap on him). With Vic we have the ability to be a defensively dominant team, I think we need to be building around that. If we put a team out there where Devin is your worst defender, we are going to have a reliable team identity.


I wouldn't even be super upset with Clingan because I think he will be a good NBA player, but I also don't think he fits at all with Wemby. I think he could be Steven Adams with post offense.

He probably gets traded on a year or two. Or we threaten to take him and have someone give us assets to get him and we get an extra 26 or 27 pick with Holland, Castle, or Reed.
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Sher Thing
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2:45p, 4/24/24
AG
I like Clingan but I agree it doesn't make sense.

Topic is a tough one. Definitely where the scouting departments earns their money. The Spurs can't afford to draft another euro bust like Samanic here. They have to be sure about him. Holland and Buzelis are somewhat intriguing but adding more guys who can't shoot just doesn't get me excited whatsoever. Feel kind of the same way about Castle; although, I admit that the defensive upside looks off the charts there. Kinda leaves Sheppard, Dillingham, Williams and Knecht for me. I am also still somewhat high on Collier.

Just a really difficult draft up at the top. I actually think there's some value in the later first with guys like Devin Carter, Ryan Dunn, Tyler Smith, Hunter Sallis, and Da Silva. Saluan is definitely another interesting one to watch. I wouldn't be surprised to see him shoot up the boards as the draft gets closer.
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superunknown
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 4:54p, 4/24/24
AG
Guitarsoup said:


Also, I am going to keep pushing this notion that the Spots are going to keep using Wemby as a focal point like Joker because it is so dangerous to other teams. Cut off the passing lanes and he beats you 1:1. Double him and he find the shooter or cutter. Same with Bron, Jordan, Magic, Joker, etc. Wemby has the distinct advantage of having a better view of the court than any of them.

So we want guys like Derrick White, Devin Vassell, Reed Sheppard, Aaron Gordon, Jamal Murray, Alex Caruso, etc that can hurt you with or without the ball.


That's my thinking too, he's going to be a freaking lighthouse playing Joker style from anywhere on the court based on who's on the court with him at any given time. In a couple years when he's playing 40 minutes a game, how tf do you defend a 7'4" alien who can comfortably play anywhere on the court and can play face up or back to the basket whenever he wants? Depending on matchups you can roll post heavy and 4 down or Beautiful Game whenever you want. Positionless basketball hits a little different when you've got someone who can also block 5 shots a game. Getting reliable dudes who you can plug and play around him...I think that's the way to go. He doesn't need all stars around him (although I think the Spurs with Wemby will be more of an attractive FA option than we've ever had) to be effective, just dudes who don't shht themselves in the moment.

If the last ~30 games of the season is our new floor...yikes. We saw Wemby take over a lot of games and be the rock the team could depend on. Modest talent improvement/growth (with the current roster, not even talking about added talent via FA/draft) is gonna be huge in the win column.
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Sher Thing
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5:08p, 4/24/24
AG
https://instagr.am/p/C3Ggp2ivzcY

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Knecht. Not in love with how old he is but honestly that might end up being a positive considering the Wemby timeline. Derrick White was also an older player when he was drafted.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Sher Thing • 5:27p, 4/24/24
AG
Sher Thing said:
https://instagr.am/p/C3Ggp2ivzcY

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Knecht. Not in love with how old he is but honestly that might end up being a positive considering the Wemby timeline. Derrick White was also an older player when he was drafted.


I just don't know about the defense. Otherwise he might just be a 6'6 Patty Mills that comes in and gives you some great offense but doesn't get any stops.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Sher Thing • 5:28p, 4/24/24
AG
Knecht and sheppard are two players I wouldn't mind with the raptors pick. If we only get one pick, say 6th, it would be hard to justify taking them imo. I'd rather roll the dice on upside.
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Guitarsoup
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5:36p, 4/24/24
AG
Here's a hypothetical:
Our pick lands early where we have our shot Sarr or Clingan and we also get Toronto at 7.

Would you trade those two picks plus keldon and Graham for Brandon Ingram and 21?
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 5:42p, 4/24/24
AG
That would be a hard no for me. Ingram can't be a number two on a contender. He's showing that against Dort. I'm not a big Ingram fan. Too icy hot. Also, kind of a redundant fit with Devin.

Id much rather have one Jones or Murphy who can bring it defensively. I would do that trade for Murphy. But NOLA won't give up those two. They are likely going to move Ingram before next year.

Edit: NOLA won that 2021 draft btw. Imagine having one of those guys on our team right now. Freaking Primo.
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Sher Thing
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5:49p, 4/24/24
AG
I just think all these guys have huge question marks so it would be smart to take someone who has shown you that they are at least elite at something. We know Knecht can score the ball. I don't think he will ever be a great defender but he has good size and length so I don't think he will be terrible on that side of the ball either. I think Sheppard and Dillingham are both listed over their actual height and are closer to 6'1.5 - 6'2 which raises just as much defensive concerns as Knecht for me.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Sher Thing • 5:58p, 4/24/24
AG
Sher Thing said:
I just think all these guys have huge question marks so it would be smart to take someone who has shown you that they are at least elite at something. We know Knecht can score the ball. I don't think he will ever be a great defender but he has good size and length so I don't think he will be terrible on that side of the ball either. I think Sheppard and Dillingham are both listed over their actual height and are closer to 6'1.5 - 6'2 which raises just as much defensive concerns as Knecht for me.


I just don't want to use a top six pick on Doug McDermott.

I'd rather take 18-year-old. Ron Holland who has elite athleticism and shows that he can be a point of attack defender and hope that he can learn how to shoot a corner three

Maybe Reed will never be good as a point attack defender, but we do know that he's good as a high IQ player on both ends of the Court and he's the best shooter in the class. He did have 2.5 steals per game at Kentucky in less than 30 minutes a game
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 5:59p, 4/24/24
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
That would be a hard no for me. Ingram can't be a number two on a contender. He's showing that against Dort. I'm not a big Ingram fan. Too icy hot. Also, kind of a redundant fit with Devin.

Id much rather have one Jones or Murphy who can bring it defensively. I would do that trade for Murphy. But NOLA won't give up those two. They are likely going to move Ingram before next year.

Edit: NOLA won that 2021 draft btw. Imagine having one of those guys on our team right now. Freaking Primo.


I would do it for Jones in a heartbeat but I don't know about Trey Murphy. He's icy Hot as well and doesn't have any playmaking chops. Definitely a better defender than Ingram.

The other thing with Ingram is that he's always injured
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