http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/reports/2015/07/economic-mobility-in-the-united-states

http://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/economic_mobility_short.pdf

http://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/Pathways-SOTU-2016-Economic-Mobility-3.pdf

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When compared to 24 middle-income and high- income countries, the U.S. ranks 16th in the amount of intergenerational earnings mobility.

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Overall, in all facets, we are 10th in economic mobility, wealth mobility, job creation, and poverty support out of 10 advanced countries with the data to support an across-the -board comparison.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/01/news/economy/poverty-inequality-united-states/

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/23/265356290/study-upward-mobility-no-tougher-in-u-s-than-two-decades-ago

Acknowledging that non-white Americans face everyday racism is not the same as having white guilt.

Wanting racism to go away is not the same as white guilt.

Realizing that being passive about racism is the same as supporting the existing system is not the same as white guilt.

If it is white guilt to want racial equality, then I guess I have white guilt. I just want my friends of color to be treated the same way as I am in all situations.

SIAP

This is where I get angry. The either 'for us or against us' mentality and hypocrisy is more damaging than anything.

http://bluelivesmatter.blue/steve-clevenger-black-lives-matter/

That hasn't always been the case. When people no longer want an opportunity, but a handout instead you get this problem. As liberals continue to push wealth redistribution and the reward for hard work and risk decreases so does opportunity.

In other words liberals once again are ****ing the disenfranchised in order to just do something that makes them feel better today.

You can't decry capitalism and then complain when the opportunities it represented also disappear. What a bunch of Morans.

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http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/reports/2015/07/economic-mobility-in-the-united-states

http://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/economic_mobility_short.pdf

http://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/Pathways-SOTU-2016-Economic-Mobility-3.pdf

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When compared to 24 middle-income and high- income countries, the U.S. ranks 16th in the amount of intergenerational earnings mobility.

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Overall, in all facets, we are 10th in economic mobility, wealth mobility, job creation, and poverty support out of 10 advanced countries with the data to support an across-the -board comparison.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/01/news/economy/poverty-inequality-united-states/

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/23/265356290/study-upward-mobility-no-tougher-in-u-s-than-two-decades-ago

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Then why does everyone want to come here?

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Sounds lovely. Too bad statistically the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" myth is just a myth. We have less economic mobility than much of Europe.

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Bootstraps only work if you pull on them.

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Well put.

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Sounds lovely. Too bad statistically the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" myth is just a myth. We have less economic mobility than much of Europe.

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statistics are a bull**** red-herring in the argument. The fact that it has happened means that is can happen and those that have not risen above their poverty either haven't tried hard enough, don't care or are too lazy to try.

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Sounds lovely. Too bad statistically the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" myth is just a myth. We have less economic mobility than much of Europe.

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Sorry, but you are full of ****. Nobody here said that 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' is universally applied and all will fundamentally benefit from it. You have to actually DO IT to benefit from it.

We may be 16th out of 24, but so what? I personally know numerous people who crossed the Mexico/US border with nothing but the clothes on their back who now are successful business owners. It can be done--period. It's done far more often by those with far fewer means than our own citizens who have myriad advantages over recent immigrants.

My own father's family came out of the depression with virtually nothing and became very successful.

Statistical myth my ass.

BTW, most of your sources are from hard left leaning groups. Any wonder? I think not.

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The problem is not reality, the problem lies within the mind of Dr. Watson and his erroneous thinking/values.

He doesn't want people to actually, as you say, DO things to earn mobility. He desires the divorcing of productivity and reward. By any means necessary, even if it means initiating physical force. He doesn't think that wealth is something that people actually created, he thinks of it as a static zero-sum game...

The mental gymnastics go like this: "Wealth can only be hoarded and stolen, so that being the case we ought to take from those who have wealth (that they didn't earn...its all stolen, remember) and give it to those they have wronged (by a warped sense of justice)".

Reb

I'd rather you not put words in my mouth. I want people to work hard. And most people work very hard. Believe it or not, the majority of poor people are working and working hard. They're pulling on their bootstraps. But one bad decision or one bad break can ruin people in this country in a way it doesn't in other countries. You seem to be living a myth that if you just work hard, everything will work out and you'll be better off. That's not born out by the data. People born in poor households have lower educational and health outcomes, and fewer opportunities. That's simple fact. Many are able to advance. Many, many more are not. And they are not lazy people.

You aren't thinking in terms of principle.

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You aren't thinking in terms of principle.

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Principle is nice. Here's mine: equality of opportunity. You're claiming there is currently equality of opportunity for someone born into a nice suburb to middle class white parents vs a black child born in an urban ghetto. Anyone with functioning brain cells knows that's bs.

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You aren't thinking in terms of principle.

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Principle is nice. Here's mine: equality of opportunity. You're claiming there is currently equality of opportunity for someone born into a nice suburb to middle class white parents vs a black child born in an urban ghetto. Anyone with functioning brain cells knows that's bs.

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the United States military is ample opportunity for any individual born into any situation in life. Join up, work 20 years and have retirement and healthcare for life. This isn't rocket science. Stop making excuses.

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Unless you have a medical condition. Or the quota is met. Or you don't want to serve in the military for whatever reason. The military isn't 50 million people.

And you're basically saying poor people need to put their lives on the line just to have a chance at a middle class life.

What is your solution. You have identified the problem. What is thw the solution???

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And you're basically saying poor people need to put their lives on the line just to have a chance at a middle class life.

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For the vast majority of us, all of our families were poor at one time, bc they came here for a better life. They worked hard to provide for their families and the cycle has been perpetuated through the generations.

Yes, the majority of AA's ancestors did not immigrate here of their own will, but the cycle has to start somewhere. The problem has been identified as single parent families. Outside of trying to legislate morality, I don't see how that problem is solved. It has to come from within.

Many immigrants still come here and are dirt poor but work hard to elevate themselves. They don't join the military. They do it by working and instilling a work ethic into their children. Many live here without smart phones, the latest Jordans, or a POS car with rims that cost 1000s.

Legalize and regulate drugs. Reform the criminal justice system and release non-violent drug offenders from prison. Bring vocational training into poor communities and give subsudies or tax breaks to businesses that open in certain areas. Expand charter schools (but improve regulation of them). This is off the top of my head, but there's more.

What helped many of those immigrants' children was the GI Bill and VA loans. Black veterans were not given either of those, or had to fight their asses off for them. Even then, they weren't allowed to move to the suburbs. Again, this isn't a story where white immigrants had the same start as blacks and just made it through their determination. Black Americans were held back by law and by society until very, very recently.

These are good points. I would also stipulate that people with access to jobs and can't/won't keep them, not be allowed back onto welfare. The enabling of laziness has to stop.

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These are good points. I would also stipulate that people with access to jobs and can't/won't keep them, not be allowed back onto welfare. The enabling of laziness has to stop.

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You must be racist. [/whiny millennial sip Westcott Eberts]

Typical.

You'll continue to spout excuses for why they couldn't instead of why they could.

Japanese Americans and Europeans didn't get anything either. You know what was different? They had a community that was unified in pushing for respect and success. They pulled together, helped each other, and provided a moral base. Welfare was looked down upon and shameful. They wanted to succeed and worked to that end.

The only group that doesn't have this is the one listing excuses as to why they have it so bad. And they continue to get just enough"educated" people such as yourself that continue to be enablers instead of supporters.

I have yet to talk with a successful black individual who doesn't say the same. They always thrive"in spite of their community" instead of because of it. It's not rocket science. When the African American community decides enough is enough, denounces gang activity, drugs and demands accountability, pride in success, and effort things will change.

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What helped many of those immigrants' children was the GI Bill and VA loans.

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So, you are now saying that poor people should enlist and put their lives on the line to make it into the middle class?

Make up your mind.

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What helped many of those immigrants' children was the GI Bill and VA loans.

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So, you are now saying that poor people should enlist and put their lives on the line to make it into the middle class?

Make up your mind.

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I think you completely misunderstood my post.

No I get it. Everyone but blacks had help getting homes and such.

But you also discounted the benefits of enlisting when you said poor people shouldn't have to in order to break into the middle class. The ultimate lesson here is that the majority of the poor that is born here has become enabled to remain so. They don't want to work hard to earn a living. And who would when there is no end to welfare funds given to them.

Rewarding bad behavior.

Welfare used to be seen as a shameful thing. No longer.

I've already covered some of what helped European immigrants. They weren't black. They had access to the New Deal and postwar programs denied to black Americans. They didn't face segregation. And it still took them several generations to firmly move into the middle class.

As for non-white immigrants, many of them came with some money into close communities for a specific job or reason.

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No I get it. Everyone but blacks had help getting homes and such.

But you also discounted the benefits of enlisting when you said poor people shouldn't have to in order to break into the middle class. The ultimate lesson here is that the majority of the poor that is born here has become enabled to remain so. They don't want to work hard to earn a living. And who would when there is no end to welfare funds given to them.

Rewarding bad behavior.

Welfare used to be seen as a shameful thing. No longer.

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It seems like there's quite a bit of shaming of welfare in this country. Most folks on assistance are working if they are able to work, but around here you'd think it was a grand ole welfare party.

And I wasn't discounting enlisting. I was saying it isn't an option for a large number of people and even if it is, there's something off with demanding that folks endanger their lives in order to get a leg-up in society simply because they were born poor.

Well there is a large contingent of society that feels there is something wrong with being asked to become employed and earn money for themselves. Joining the military is noble and respectable.

And there should be shaming of welfare. It is assistance, not a means to live. There are people working 3-4 jobs to provide for their families and often, the family works as a unit to bring income. THAT is the American way. "Give me your tired....your poor" means you can live here and be given opportunity to provide for yourself in a free society. It does not mean our government will provide.

Many of those people working multiple jobs still need Section 8 housing and food stamps. Programs like that have helped millions of people. Our rates of extreme poverty, meaning serious deprecation of the basic necessities, has plummeted since we instituted anti poverty programs. Those programs also help increase social mobility.

What is Sapper doing about all this injustice for black people wasting all his time posting on Texags.

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What is Sapper doing about all this injustice for black people wasting all his time posting on Texags.

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I was just thinking Dr. Watson was a dead ringer for that guy. His views on the intrinsic inheritable evil of ill-begotten wealth was fascinating to dig into.