It allows one to feel self righteous and sanctimonious and also to live comfortably in many social circles as one of the "enlightened" who is immune to criticism.
What's up with all the..
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192 Replies |
Last: 7 yr ago by 62strat
quote:
We have less economic mobility than much of Europe.
Ok. So, is that by definition a problem?
I am for equal opportunity. You are talking about equal outcome.
There is a reason that some families and people groups are better at stuff than others. They work harder, have more talent, are more skilled, are smarter, are whatever.
I don't hear anyone complaining about the lack of Japanese football players. Where is the "economic mobility" in the NFL?
Why aren't there more Russian MLB managers?
Why aren't there more black violinists?
Why aren't there more male nurses and teachers?
Get over it. Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome.
quote:quote:
We have less economic mobility than much of Europe.
Ok. So, is that by definition a problem?
I am for equal opportunity. You are talking about equal outcome.
There is a reason that some families and people groups are better at stuff than others. They work harder, have more talent, are more skilled, are smarter, are whatever.
I don't hear anyone complaining about the lack of Japanese football players. Where is the "economic mobility" in the NFL?
Why aren't there more Russian MLB managers?
Why aren't there more black violinists?
Why aren't there more male nurses and teachers?
Get over it. Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome.
I figure I am just as far removed from slave owners as any black person I meet is from slaves (or being african for that matter)... so I think it should be a wash.
What I'm discussing is equal opportunity. We don't have it.
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What I'm discussing is equal opportunity. We don't have it.
No, you are discussing equal outcome.
Yes, we do have it. Every person in this country is free to pursue his or her own dreams. Some may face a more difficult time in achieving his or her dream, but we are all free to pursue the opportunity of our choosing. This is the very definition of equal opportunity.
No, that's not the definition of equal opportunity. Equal opportunity assumes equal access to opportunity. We don't have that.
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No, that's not the definition of equal opportunity. Equal opportunity assumes equal access to opportunity. We don't have that.
Really? What access is being denied and to whom?
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No, that's not the definition of equal opportunity. Equal opportunity assumes equal access to opportunity. We don't have that.
You're right bc equal opportunity doesn't mean special privileges for some groups and not others.
Well, I and a friend from high school both had similar grades, activities, and SAT scores. We both went to A&M. He's half Mexican and that's why he got twice the scholarship money I got. So I guess you're right. It was not "equal opportunity."
Really? You think a poor child in Appalachia or the inner city has the exact same opportunity as a suburban middle or upper class child?
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Well, I and a friend from high school both had similar grades, activities, and SAT scores. We both went to A&M. He's half Mexican and that's why he got twice the scholarship money I got. So I guess you're right. It was not "equal opportunity."
Anecdotes are fun. Despite complaints about affirmative action, a disproportionate share of scholarship dollars still go to white students.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/09/06/merit_based_and_private_scholarships_disproportionately_favor_white_students
Well, it does say they are merit based scholarships. So maybe those kids have better grades.
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Well, it does say they are merit based scholarships. So maybe those kids have better grades.
That's it. White kids earned all their scholarships. Minority kids didn't. Right?
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Really? You think a poor child in Appalachia or the inner city has the exact same opportunity as a suburban middle or upper class child?
If they want it, yes. Just gotta be willing to put in the work.
Did I say that? No.
If they are merit based, then the best students should get them, regardless of what color they are.
You seem to be saying they should be equally distributed by color, regardless of the students' performance. If they aren't, it's not a performance issue, it's because some groups don't have the same opportunity.
Despite our opportunities, we all have a choice. We can perform and succeed, or we can not perform and not succeed.
If they are merit based, then the best students should get them, regardless of what color they are.
You seem to be saying they should be equally distributed by color, regardless of the students' performance. If they aren't, it's not a performance issue, it's because some groups don't have the same opportunity.
Despite our opportunities, we all have a choice. We can perform and succeed, or we can not perform and not succeed.
quote:Have we controlled for the higher percentage among equally qualified applicants? Nope. That article even basically admits it isn't race-related. Geez, did you actually read it? It's income-related. And in merit-based scholarships those with higher incomes are likely to have higher test scores due to quality of schools/access to tutors/parental free time helping children learn, etc. while these may be correlated to race, they are NOT caused by race. Huge difference.quote:
Well, I and a friend from high school both had similar grades, activities, and SAT scores. We both went to A&M. He's half Mexican and that's why he got twice the scholarship money I got. So I guess you're right. It was not "equal opportunity."
Anecdotes are fun. Despite complaints about affirmative action, a disproportionate share of scholarship dollars still go to white students.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/09/06/merit_based_and_private_scholarships_disproportionately_favor_white_students
How about we break down merit awards by test score or gpa ranges? Then compare to which socioeconomic and racial groups fall into which score ranges and draw insights from that. That's a real study, not what you linked.
There isn't systematic racism in the scholarship selection process. In the (rather large) fund I manage on the side, we don't even have names before the interview process. We don't have essays until after the first cut has been made based on academic metrics.
As alluded to, any economic mobility issue has to do with our failing education system. The disparity between the great public schools and the awful public schools is due to money, not due to race. Even after potentially fixing those, it'll never truly be equal, because of elite private schools. Compounding the problems/inequalities are overriding cultural attitudes toward education. It takes a strong, dedicated, and patient figure in the household to control an adolescent. It takes the same type of person to crawl out of a hole and climb the socioeconomic ladder. These type of people are present in any race - which is why you see ****heads from rich suburbs crash and burn as often as you see people from poor communities rise up out of poverty.
Equal opportunity does not mean everyone has an easy shot at becoming a millionaire. I don't know how that idea ever got in our media's head.
Here ya go, sapper. Scholls specifically for minorities and women. If you are whitey, you are screwed. So yes, you are right. There is no equal opportunity. Women and minorities have an unfair advantage, proof right here. If you are a white male, your application will not be accepted. Blatant, in your face, legally encouraged, legally allowed racism and sexism.
quote:Really grasping at thin polystyrene tubes here, bud...quote:
Well, it does say they are merit based scholarships. So maybe those kids have better grades.
That's it. White kids earned all their scholarships. Minority kids didn't. Right?
Can you imagine the puddin' storm that would ensue if someone started the United White Boy College Fund?
You are aware that race correlates with poverty and that there are historic reasons for this correlation?
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You are aware that race correlates with poverty and that there are historic reasons for this correlation?
By "historic reasons," do you mean liberal wealth redistribution policies that destroy the family, destroy initiative, reward lack of productivity, encourage higher birth rates, and foster negative attitudes, a victim mentality, generational failure, and class warfare?
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You are aware that race correlates with poverty and that there are historic reasons for this correlation?
So what's your solution doc?
In Watson's defense, he did list some of his ideas/solutions earlier, but he loves taking about this issue. So much so that he got banned and revived an old sock to continue posting about it. I used to think he was a smart guy, but he really just likes to talk
I didn't get banned for this debate or issue.
quote:quote:
You are aware that race correlates with poverty and that there are historic reasons for this correlation?
By "historic reasons," do you mean liberal wealth redistribution policies that destroy the family, destroy initiative, reward lack of productivity, encourage higher birth rates, and foster negative attitudes, a victim mentality, generational failure, and class warfare?
No. Try again.
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I used to think he was a smart guy
quote:Did you revive an old sock so you can continue blabbing about this issue?
I didn't get banned for this debate or issue.
quote:quote:Did you revive an old sock so you can continue blabbing about this issue?
I didn't get banned for this debate or issue.
No
Are you blabbing about this issue?
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Are you blabbing about this issue?
No. I let it go for awhile. I thought this would be a reasonable discussion. Now you've derailed it into a personal debate.
People have been reasonable with you
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People have been reasonable with you
Yes, many have. I haven't disputed that. I'm referring to your current behavior.
I don't even care anymore and don't know why I'm engaging you. It's the same reason in think R&P sucks. Some people argue because they just like arguing. Fewer solutions. More arguing. More blaming. So tired
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