Also I'm kind of late to this thread but Lat has gone from liking Sumlin (6-1) last week to wanting to fire him again and pay him his $15 million buyout so we can turn around and buy out Hugh Freeze (3-4) and his NCAA baggage in order to save $400k a year?

Get Off My Lawn said:

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wmartin2014 said:

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Sumlin should get his contract. If he can't win the SEC by then, we should start shopping.

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How about we go for a proven NFL coach? That should produce wonderfully for us!

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Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Also I'm kind of late to this thread but Lat has gone from liking Sumlin (6-1) last week to wanting to fire him again and pay him his $15 million buyout so we can turn around and buy out Hugh Freeze (3-4) and his NCAA baggage in order to save $400k a year?

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I think Lat must have suffered some head trauma last week or something. He just wasn't himself.

They are likely to be racists at the 0.05 level of significance.

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Also I'm kind of late to this thread but Lat has gone from liking Sumlin (6-1) last week to wanting to fire him again and pay him his $15 million buyout so we can turn around and buy out Hugh Freeze (3-4) and his NCAA baggage in order to save $400k a year?

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i hope he doesn't run a business

Quote:

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Also I'm kind of late to this thread but Lat has gone from liking Sumlin (6-1) last week to wanting to fire him again and pay him his $15 million buyout so we can turn around and buy out Hugh Freeze (3-4) and his NCAA baggage in order to save $400k a year?

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Lat is so Jekyl and Hyde week to week, I think it depends on if he took his meds or not.

C Loves L said:

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I feel sorry for Lat. The Aggie football team is 6-1 and has been ranked inside the top 10 for 4 weeks now? I'f only A&M could lose more he might be happier.

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Ragoo said:

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Lateralus Ag said:

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bigblackag12 said:

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Who, lateralus, realistically, do you expect us to go after and get? As in who is gonna leave their job out of those select 14 coaches that are doing pretty well at their places?


Can you bring up the coaches names and career records? Would you want the 14th best record? Would you settle for 13th? And they give us better chances at a natty?


I find it very interesting that you wait until we lose to a very dominant bama team that has beat everyone else so far to say that sumlin is chopped liver. I'd say he has weathered a lot of storms pretty well. He has transformed this team. Look at the roster he was left with. It looks pretty different now. Hes one of like 4 active coaches to have even beaten bama.

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Based on what they are making where they are, yea, i think most of them would talk to us and at least three or four would be very interested.

The roster he was left with is a sad excuse in year five.

So he beat Bama with JFF, KK, Evans, and Sherms oline studs. Great. Good for him. Left to his own receuiting and devices he has led us to a qb cluster, 8-5, 8-5 and whatever happens this year, which very well could be 3-4 losses including a bowl game. I would point out that last time we played bama close we lost four games that year. We did not play Bama close (19 points is not close, so spare me that nonsense). chances are we lose 3 or 4 this season.

I have said i wasnt a fan of Sumlin since he was hired. I am simply pointing out facts and numbers that back up my opinion. Thats what you do in these types of discussions.

Here is the link. Do your own homework. I already did mine.



http://www.coacheshotseat.com/WinningestActiveCoachesIA.htm

14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

Sumlin is paid on par with 3 other coaches that have won a national title and a conference champion. He is paid MORE than two coaches, in our conference, both of which have beat bama more than Sumlin and finished higher in the SEC West.

I am not saying Sumlin isnt average or slightly above. I am saying he isnt worth what he is paid, and those of you that think he is on par with the best coaches in the SEC or the rest of the field simply don't have the facts to back that up.

I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

Good for you.

Next question.

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freeze is 37-22 at Ole Miss. Are you really ****ing including his record as the Head Coach at LAMBUTH and ARKANSAS STATE??? Is that really what you are going to to 'prove' Freeze is a better value than Sumlin?

Outside of a freaking ridiculous year in 2013 what has Gus done at Auburn? He is 32-15 at Auburn. Gus is going to need a lot of wins over the next 1.5 seasons to equal Sumlin's record.

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Pretty peculiar. And its not like we arbitrarily picked him out either. Lat mentioned him and gus.

Let's finish the year well before saying sumlin is the answer.

vonmazor said:

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Let's finish the year well before saying sumlin is the answer.

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I think the year is already a success for most. 9-3 seems like a unbreakable floor. And 9 wins against this schedule that includes a win against #18 UCLA, #15 Auburn, #9 Tennessee, # 16 Arkansas is an INCREDIBLE season. The only teams you lose to are SEC West opponents which are all playoff teams if the liberal media wasn't so biased.

I'd say Bama #1, LSU #2, and Ole Miss #3. Its ok to lose to them.

Von Mazor is a troll.

PascalsWager said:

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vonmazor said:

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Let's finish the year well before saying sumlin is the answer.

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I think the year is already a success for most. 9-3 seems like a unbreakable floor. And 9 wins against this schedule that includes a win against #18 UCLA, #15 Auburn, #9 Tennessee, # 16 Arkansas is an INCREDIBLE season. The only teams you lose to are SEC West opponents which are all playoff teams if the liberal media wasn't so biased.

I'd say Bama #1, LSU #2, and Ole Miss #3. Its ok to lose to them.

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Uh, liberal media?

MSNBC caused LSU to lose to Wisconsin, CNN was behind the loss to Auburn, and it was the Huffington Post that made sure Les Miles was fired.

vonmazor said:

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Let's finish the year well before saying sumlin is the answer.

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Doesn't matter what we think. Sumlin will get the 8 wins he needs to return.

Not SIAP

You mean to tell me there are still Sumlin haters at this point? Our only loss is to the favored National Champion at their house. Please.

You people need to chill out. Before this season we would have been ecstatic with 10 wins and we have a realistic shot at 11.

I just want to know how many years Sumlin gets to beat LSU?

aggiebq03+ said:

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I just want to know how many years Sumlin gets to beat LSU?

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For the haters the intervals are actually measured in quarters.

aggiebq03+ said:

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I just want to know how many years Sumlin gets to beat LSU?

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If we are 11-2 every year then he will get like, 10 years to try.

Is LSU that much more talented than us? They came out and took Bama to task, they just can't score. If we had their D we would have beaten Bama 14-10, arguably. Talent isn't the issue, we are close enough to the best to beat the best, it's want to. We are vastly more talented than Miss St, they came out and beat the tar out of us. Do we ever win games through toughness and sheer force of will?

Seems a lot of folks owe me an apology.

Apparently even Mullen would have been a better option over Sumlin.

He just needs to recruit more on the defensive side of the ball. We recruit way too many receivers. Give Chavis more to work with depth and talent wise.

LSU is generally more talented than A&M on defense. Starting DE's and safeties are probably the exceptions but generally elsewhere they have more talent and a lot more depth. They have a big edge at LB and an edge at CB. My sense is we are gradually closing the gap but it will take several consecutive stellar classes to get close to where they are.

On offense they are probably better along the OL and at RB. I'm not sure if their OL edge is primarily a function of experience or not. I know they are more experienced but I don't know if our guys will improve significantly yr over yr or not. History says they will improve incrementally with experience and PT together as a group and so 2 yrs down the road we might look pretty good on the OL. LSU has an edge on everyone else in the nation at RB so their edge obviously does not mean we don't have good RB's. We have an edge at WR and QB.

It's kinda hard to tell because they play so much harder. Their D and their O-line play with a fire in their bellies. One sharpens the other. Our scheme is finesse so our O-Line is soft, because our O-line is soft our defensive inside seven is soft. Talent isn't the issue.

I can't agree that our DL is soft. LB's.... yes.

Likewise, I don't think our OL is soft. Last yrs OL was soft. This yrs is inexperienced.

1) Craig Bohl, HC at Wyoming.

2) I'm 65% certain he does better than Sumlin and takes us to the next level. The SEC is not the MWC or FCS, but he has shown an ability to develop a program and win at a high level. If he'd gotten his start in FBS or a bigger name program, he'd be a bigger name himself and I'd up the confidence percentage.

3) Bohl coached NDSU to victories over multiple FBS teams, with a win over KSU. He's like 7-3 and was competitive in all but one loss. He built a program that has dominated the FCS for the last five years with 5 straight national titles. FCS? Yeah, but you don't dominate like that without being able to coach and manage. He's the Nick Saban of the FCS and flew under the radar because it's the FCS.

In year 3 at Wyoming, he's 7-2 with losses to Eastern Michigan and Nebraska but 5-0 in conference. SDSU is the last hump in a ten win regular season. ****ty competition? Yeah, but he's doing it with Wyoming, a program that has two 8 win seasons since 1996. He's out coaching and out preparing his competition so far this year.

I did a break down of national championship coaches last year. Only 1-2 of like the last 20 MNC's has been won by a coach not in his first 5 years on the job. Pretty much all of them had at least a conference title in year 2-3. Taking any program, making it yours, and winning hardware with what you have is the mark of a good coach. If Bohl wins the MWC, he's got it.

4) No one beats bama regularly, and that's not a realistic requirement for a replacement when Sumlin is 1-4. Beating them half the time or even a third is an improvement and I would consider it next level.

5) Bohl would be cheap. His current max compensation is < $1 million. We could triple his pay and still have $2 million more for assistants every year.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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cheeeseburger said:

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Assume for this thread that everyone agrees with you and we need to run Sumlin off:

1) Who's your next guy that takes us to the next level? He beats Bama regularly; we live in Top10 and Top5; double-digit wins without fail; he takes us to the playoffs. He evaluates talent and recruits better; he knows how to manage and develop 4- and 5-star players with high expectations for themselves; he builds a stronger staff; he prepares and executes on a Saban level.

2) How certain are you that your new guy takes us to the next level? 75% ? 90% ? Higher?

3) What's your evidence that your new guy can do all these things at a Top5 or Top10 level?

Opinion and speculation are ok, but acknowledge that opinion and speculation are not the same thing as evidence.

One final note: This thread is not about Sumlin, so don't make it about Sumlin. This thread is about your next guy. Who is he?

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I'm not a Sumlin hater, but I am a bit of a skeptic so here are some thoughts on what "the guy" needs to be able to do. I'm not suggesting that Sumlin has failed on all of these. In fact, I still think he has a chance to get there.
1)

• Identify and hire competent assistants. Sumlin has been all over the map here. We've had some great hires and some awful ones. Other than Mazzone (who I'm merely lukewarm on), I think, through trial and error or whatever, Sumlin has finally gotten a good staff
• Ink top 10 classes basically every year. This is very difficult, but we've got palatial facilities and we're 90 miles from Houston. Plus, the SEC West is the least forgiving division in the country when it comes to recruiting. So "the guy" simply has to be able to recruit at a high level, no excuses allowed. Sumlin's been a mixed bag here too. He certainly kicked ass when he had the winds of Manziel Mania at his back, but he's fallen off since then. Hopefully this season will get him back on track, because we've got a lot of reloading to do.
• Build up the program so that our floor is 9-10 wins pre-bowl. If we can hover there, then when the right special player comes along, we'll have our shot at the conference title. But even when we're not legitimately contending, we need to be in the national media discussion. Put another way, finish in the top 25 even in our down years.

2) I don't have "a guy" in mind (hell, Sumlin isn't out of the running for being the guy; he's done a lot here and finally has the staff to do a lot more), but generally speaking the coaching carousel is a s**t show unless you land somebody like Saban or Meyer who commands enough respect to start inking top 5 classes on day 1.

3) See #2. It's a s**t show.

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Deputy Travis Junior let me see if I can help you out. As to the points you made:

• Hiring coaches is no different from hiring employees at any fortune 500 company. You interview them, you evaluate their resumes and you speak to references (for the most part) and you make a decision. You are right, it is trial and error. You want to hit a home run on every hire, but sometimes guys are not what they seem. We've had a few. To be honest, I thin we've had some guys who have had their eye on the head coaches job and that is not good. Cut throat business.
• Ink Top 10 classes every year. Ok Lets look at the last 5 years based on Rivals 15, 11, 6, 10, 17 and 9 from 2012 to our current rank. With the exception of Ole Miss and Auburn, every other Top 10 school has something that can be seen by recruits as a bigger draw. (Fan Base, School Location, tradition, etc) College Station isn't setting the world on fire and being an hour and a half from Houston doesn't help much. (105 man Roster 27 Houston Players) So, to have 3 Top 10 classes out of 6 years isn't bad. Our Fans and sites like Texags can play a positive role on this front as well.
• I agree 9-10 wins a year pre bowl is what we want and I guarantee that's what our head coach is striving for if not beyond that. To make us relevant nationally.. I think we have fans who think we were relevant before Coach Sumlin, so I'll point out another fact. All of the Head Coaches at A&M prior to Sumlin, as far back as Gene Stallings either were run off or left for other schools. (2) of them Bellard and Sherrill both went to MS State and the Great Gene Stallings was awful 27-45.

So Deputy, I think we have a guy who wants to be with us for the long term, but H*ll we have to commit to him. The guy can recruit, he put Houston back on the map. Don't think for one minute that Tom Hermann is doing anything special at U of H, just following the "Sumlin Blueprint" of keeping Houston kids at home. Urban commands respect, but he coaches at The Ohio State. Nick Saban coaches at BAMA. He got his breaks beat off in the NFL, but is a legend at Bama. It takes a lot to win championships and to keep top notch recruiting classes, ask Oregon they couldn't beat some high school teams out there and a few years ago everyone in the country wanted to go there. We have fans who have an overinflated sense of who we really are. That's what's dangerous.

Meximan said:

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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

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if Sumlin wins 11 this year if anything he might get another contract extension. that's not out of the question.

i've been a fan of his from the start even his strongest supporters have to be lil frustrated that we can't seem to break through against Bama. beating Bama more often than losing to them may not be realistic at this point and time but we gota be able to win at least 1 out of 3-4 times we play em.

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Nobody will be able to "break through" against Saban. From now until he retires, he will only ever allow a QB or coach to beat him once. Once. I think that's going to be about 8 to 12 years down the line.

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Hugh Freeze beat him two years in a row....

ElPasoAg01 said:

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Is LSU that much more talented than us? They came out and took Bama to task, they just can't score. If we had their D we would have beaten Bama 14-10, arguably. Talent isn't the issue, we are close enough to the best to beat the best, it's want to. We are vastly more talented than Miss St, they came out and beat the tar out of us. Do we ever win games through toughness and sheer force of will?

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3 words, Yes They Are!!
The 45 current NFL players is a testimony to the kids the sign each year.

I think that the talent gap is much much smaller than the toughness and tenacity gap.

BigRed12 said:

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Meximan said:

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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

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if Sumlin wins 11 this year if anything he might get another contract extension. that's not out of the question.

i've been a fan of his from the start even his strongest supporters have to be lil frustrated that we can't seem to break through against Bama. beating Bama more often than losing to them may not be realistic at this point and time but we gota be able to win at least 1 out of 3-4 times we play em.

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Nobody will be able to "break through" against Saban. From now until he retires, he will only ever allow a QB or coach to beat him once. Once. I think that's going to be about 8 to 12 years down the line.

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Hugh Freeze beat him two years in a row....

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Since 2008 Alabama has lost to Florida, Utah, LSU(2), Texas A&M, Auburn(2), Oklahoma, Ole Miss (2), Ohio State. I guarantee that the 2 of the schools they lost to twice LSU and Ole Miss had better athletes than we did at the time and Auburn is just Auburn. It's one of the biggest rivalries in sports. Anything can happen in that game.

ElPasoAg01 said:

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I think that the talent gap is much much smaller than the toughness and tenacity gap.

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Then you have no clue about talent and athletic ability. I'm sorry.

I think a guy like Petrino could be incredibly successful at a school like A&M.

My opinion is that it is time for a change. Don't you have to at least try? There are a lot of guys that can go 8-4 for A&M, doing that isn't enough given all we have at our disposal.

Assuming we lose to LSU AGAIN, I just don't see how you can keep this high level job after posting 1 win since you have been here over the two teams you have to beat to have a chance at doing anything. With that 1 win coming because you had arguably the best player in the history of college football on your team. That just isn't good enough.

Maybe you don't know anything about toughness and tenacity...

Lateralus Ag said:

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bigblackag12 said:

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Who, lateralus, realistically, do you expect us to go after and get? As in who is gonna leave their job out of those select 14 coaches that are doing pretty well at their places?


Can you bring up the coaches names and career records? Would you want the 14th best record? Would you settle for 13th? And they give us better chances at a natty?


I find it very interesting that you wait until we lose to a very dominant bama team that has beat everyone else so far to say that sumlin is chopped liver. I'd say he has weathered a lot of storms pretty well. He has transformed this team. Look at the roster he was left with. It looks pretty different now. Hes one of like 4 active coaches to have even beaten bama.

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Based on what they are making where they are, yea, i think most of them would talk to us and at least three or four would be very interested.

The roster he was left with is a sad excuse in year five.

So he beat Bama with JFF, KK, Evans, and Sherms oline studs. Great. Good for him. Left to his own receuiting and devices he has led us to a qb cluster, 8-5, 8-5 and whatever happens this year, which very well could be 3-4 losses including a bowl game. I would point out that last time we played bama close we lost four games that year. We did not play Bama close (19 points is not close, so spare me that nonsense). chances are we lose 3 or 4 this season.

I have said i wasnt a fan of Sumlin since he was hired. I am simply pointing out facts and numbers that back up my opinion. Thats what you do in these types of discussions.

Here is the link. Do your own homework. I already did mine.



http://www.coacheshotseat.com/WinningestActiveCoachesIA.htm

14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

Sumlin is paid on par with 3 other coaches that have won a national title and a conference champion. He is paid MORE than two coaches, in our conference, both of which have beat bama more than Sumlin and finished higher in the SEC West.

I am not saying Sumlin isnt average or slightly above. I am saying he isnt worth what he is paid, and those of you that think he is on par with the best coaches in the SEC or the rest of the field simply don't have the facts to back that up.

I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

Good for you.

Next question.

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Decay said:

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aggiebq03+ said:

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I just want to know how many years Sumlin gets to beat LSU?

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If we are 11-2 every year then he will get like, 10 years to try.

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So what if we only went 11-2 once.
Then went 9-4, 8-5, 8-5, 9-4?