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Serious questions for the Sumlin haters

17,789 Views | 156 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by maxnow21
The Lost Hondo
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5:31p, 10/23/16
AG
Assume for this thread that everyone agrees with you and we need to run Sumlin off:

1) Who's your next guy that takes us to the next level? He beats Bama regularly; we live in Top10 and Top5; double-digit wins without fail; he takes us to the playoffs. He evaluates talent and recruits better; he knows how to manage and develop 4- and 5-star players with high expectations for themselves; he builds a stronger staff; he prepares and executes on a Saban level.

2) How certain are you that your new guy takes us to the next level? 75% ? 90% ? Higher?

3) What's your evidence that your new guy can do all these things at a Top5 or Top10 level?

Opinion and speculation are ok, but acknowledge that opinion and speculation are not the same thing as evidence.

One final note: This thread is not about Sumlin, so don't make it about Sumlin. This thread is about your next guy. Who is he?
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Old Wooden Ship
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5:32p, 10/23/16
AG
Beats bama regularly?
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31
John Maplethorpe
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5:43p, 10/23/16
AG
There aren't many of these people around anymore. He has exceeded expectations considering where we were in December, 2011.
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mike_ags_fan12
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In reply to The Lost Hondo • 5:43p, 10/23/16
cheeeseburger said:
Assume for this thread that everyone agrees with you and we need to run Sumlin off:

1) Who's your next guy that takes us to the next level? He beats Bama regularly; we live in Top10 and Top5; double-digit wins without fail; he takes us to the playoffs. He evaluates talent and recruits better; he knows how to manage and develop 4- and 5-star players with high expectations for themselves; he builds a stronger staff; he prepares and executes on a Saban level.

2) How certain are you that your new guy takes us to the next level? 75% ? 90% ? Higher?

3) What's your evidence that your new guy can do all these things at a Top5 or Top10 level?

Opinion and speculation are ok, but acknowledge that opinion and speculation are not the same thing as evidence.

One final note: This thread is not about Sumlin, so don't make it about Sumlin. This thread is about your next guy. Who is he?


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1
TMF
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5:45p, 10/23/16
AG
I was really down on Sumlin after the past few years and how the QB situation was handled. I think he has mostly redeemed himself this year, but it needs to play out. Also need to see how next 2 years go. We are still likely in an ugly QB situation next year. So probably can't expect 10 wins with what we should lose on defense. But that following year should be no excuses. I think he gets next 2 years for sure. If he hasn't built something by then...we know what we have in him by then.

I like what he has done after the past few years. I think he should get credit for making changes and cutting OL coach after a horrible one season and getting turner. I think we should expect to beat bama and LSU about 30% of the time. That would be successful in my book. We achieve that then maybe we start to expect more.
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8T2
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In reply to The Lost Hondo • 5:49p, 10/23/16
cheeeseburger said:
He beats Bama regularly;


One final note: This thread is not about Sumlin, so don't make it about Sumlin. This thread is about your next guy. Who is he?
Coaches who have beaten Bama at all in the last 5 years:

Hugh Frieze (2)
Urban Meyer
Gus Malzahn
Bob Stoops
Kevin Sumlin

Who do you want? Who would come here?
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46
Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to The Lost Hondo • 5:49p, 10/23/16
cheeeseburger said:
Assume for this thread that everyone agrees with you and we need to run Sumlin off:

1) Who's your next guy that takes us to the next level? He beats Bama regularly; we live in Top10 and Top5; double-digit wins without fail; he takes us to the playoffs. He evaluates talent and recruits better; he knows how to manage and develop 4- and 5-star players with high expectations for themselves; he builds a stronger staff; he prepares and executes on a Saban level.

2) How certain are you that your new guy takes us to the next level? 75% ? 90% ? Higher?

3) What's your evidence that your new guy can do all these things at a Top5 or Top10 level?

Opinion and speculation are ok, but acknowledge that opinion and speculation are not the same thing as evidence.

One final note: This thread is not about Sumlin, so don't make it about Sumlin. This thread is about your next guy. Who is he?
I'm not a Sumlin hater, but I am a bit of a skeptic so here are some thoughts on what "the guy" needs to be able to do. I'm not suggesting that Sumlin has failed on all of these. In fact, I still think he has a chance to get there.
1)
  • Identify and hire competent assistants. Sumlin has been all over the map here. We've had some great hires and some awful ones. Other than Mazzone (who I'm merely lukewarm on), I think, through trial and error or whatever, Sumlin has finally gotten a good staff
  • Ink top 10 classes basically every year. This is very difficult, but we've got palatial facilities and we're 90 miles from Houston. Plus, the SEC West is the least forgiving division in the country when it comes to recruiting. So "the guy" simply has to be able to recruit at a high level, no excuses allowed. Sumlin's been a mixed bag here too. He certainly kicked ass when he had the winds of Manziel Mania at his back, but he's fallen off since then. Hopefully this season will get him back on track, because we've got a lot of reloading to do.
  • Build up the program so that our floor is 9-10 wins pre-bowl. If we can hover there, then when the right special player comes along, we'll have our shot at the conference title. But even when we're not legitimately contending, we need to be in the national media discussion. Put another way, finish in the top 25 even in our down years.

2) I don't have "a guy" in mind (hell, Sumlin isn't out of the running for being the guy; he's done a lot here and finally has the staff to do a lot more), but generally speaking the coaching carousel is a s**t show unless you land somebody like Saban or Meyer who commands enough respect to start inking top 5 classes on day 1.

3) See #2. It's a s**t show.
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dcbowers
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5:56p, 10/23/16
AG
Tom Herman.

Oh, wait, nevermind...
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8T2
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In reply to dcbowers • 5:59p, 10/23/16
dcbowers said:
Tom Herman.

Oh, wait, nevermind...
Herman can beat Alabama (2014). He just can't beat SMU.
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Bobaloo
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In reply to 8T2 • 6:05p, 10/23/16
8T2 said:
dcbowers said:
Tom Herman.

Oh, wait, nevermind...
Herman can beat Alabama (2014). He just can't beat SMU.


Or Navy
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AggieDub14
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In reply to The Lost Hondo • 6:08p, 10/23/16
AG
Sumlin should get his contract. If he can't win the SEC by then, we should start shopping.
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3
Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to AggieDub14 • 6:22p, 10/23/16
wmartin2014 said:
Sumlin should get his contract. If he can't win the SEC by then, we should start shopping.


How about we go for a proven NFL coach? That should produce wonderfully for us!
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to AggieDub14 • 6:27p, 10/23/16
AG
wmartin2014 said:
Sumlin should get his contract. If he can't win the SEC by then, we should start shopping.


Op writes that well thought-out question and specifically asks for some input that didn't have to do with Sumlin, and you immediately talk about Sumlin.
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AggieDub14
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 6:59p, 10/23/16
AG
Sorry for giving my opinion on our coach. Calm down.
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chipotle
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In reply to Bobaloo • 7:07p, 10/23/16
Bobaloo said:
8T2 said:
dcbowers said:
Tom Herman.

Oh, wait, nevermind...
Herman can beat Alabama (2014). He just can't beat SMU.


Or Navy

All his guys know he's gone. I doubt they're playing.
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95_Aggie
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7:17p, 10/23/16
AG
Quote:
I doubt they're playing.
That makes him an even worse coach. texas isn't going to fire an African American coach to hire someone with just as bad a record.
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supper
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7:20p, 10/23/16
I dont hate Sumlin, i just think hes an average coach.
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cevans_40
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7:25p, 10/23/16
AG
Yet to hear an answer. This is exactly why I despise the potbangers. Just answer the damn question.
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supper
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In reply to cevans_40 • 7:28p, 10/23/16
cevans_40 said:
Yet to hear an answer. This is exactly why I despise the potbangers. Just answer the damn question.


Sumlin will never beat bama again. He was gifted a freak quarterback, probably the best QB to ever to.play college QB. That happens once every 100 years.
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Liquid Wrench
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In reply to cevans_40 • 7:29p, 10/23/16
Pot Bangers don't come out for a thread like this, they wait until an opponent scores as proof of everything that's wrong.
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aggie2812-2
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7:30p, 10/23/16
AG
90% of the people on here wanted Herman. Look at him now. Where are all of those people now. Sumlin has done a great job. Look at all the programs that are doing good.......it's because their coaches have been there for awhile.
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cevans_40
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In reply to supper • 7:32p, 10/23/16
AG
supper said:
cevans_40 said:
Yet to hear an answer. This is exactly why I despise the potbangers. Just answer the damn question.


Sumlin will never beat bama again. He was gifted a freak quarterback, probably the best QB to ever to.play college QB. That happens once every 100 years.

Never is a long time. Got an answer?
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ClassOf17
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7:32p, 10/23/16
You won't get an answer because everyone that soul put us in a better spot would never come here (Saban, Meyer, etc)

We have a chance to go 11-1 and have the best overall team since 2012.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to AggieDub14 • 7:36p, 10/23/16
AG
wmartin2014 said:
Sorry for giving my opinion on our coach. Calm down.


No one is mad. Just laughing at your blatant refusal or ignoring of everything the OP asked.
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cevans_40
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In reply to ClassOf17 • 7:52p, 10/23/16
AG
ClassOf17 said:
You won't get an answer because everyone that soul put us in a better spot would never come here (Saban, Meyer, etc)

We have a chance to go 11-1 and have the best overall team since 2012.

They will just lay on the floor and kick their feet and scream because we haven't won a natty. No solutions, just *****ing
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marble rye
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8:31p, 10/23/16
AG
Can't beat Bama without the blue chip athletes. Can't get the athletes bc they get swindled by Chuck or bought by other programs willing to flat out cheat (more than we are).

Not Sumlin's fault. This is as good as it gets. Sucks, but we have all the facilities and staff pieces. Bama's talent just can't be beaten. Sorry guys.
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BigfootYancey
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8:34p, 10/23/16
AG
Sumlin has us winning in the SEC at a winning percentage on par with RC Slocum who won at a much lower clip after entering the Big 12. Sumlin has actually won at a higher percentage here than when he was at Houston. What he has done here was is pretty impressive.

If we got a status quo coach at the same time Sumlin took over the norm would be 6-6 and 7-5 seasons. Sumlin is without question an above average coach based on past results. He is not Saban, but he could be a Mack Brown type coach.

Jackie Sherrill
52-28-1 .650
36-17-1

RC Slocum
123-47-2 .724 (55-32 .632 Big 12)
78-28-2

Dennis Franchione 2003-2007
32-28 .533
19-21

Mike Sherman 2008-2011
25-25 .500
15-18

Kevin Sumlin
42-17 .712
21-16
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AG @ HEART
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8:44p, 10/23/16
And just like that, some d i c k cannot follow instruction and this devolves into "Sumlin cannot do it here." Talk like always.
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aggiematt07
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10:26p, 10/23/16
AG
Really thought this thread would produce some good candidates
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lil_frog8
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10:28p, 10/23/16
lil_frog8
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10:33p, 10/23/16
AG
I like Sumlin but I will play... My candidate is Gart Kubiak

Beat Saban (NFL) ...check
Recruiting: NFL coach instant credibility with recruits ...check
Gets Aggieland ...check
Knows the Houston area ...check
Proven winner (super bowl). ...check
Can assemble a good staff ...check
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Diet Cokehead
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In reply to lil_frog8 • 10:37p, 10/23/16
AG
lil_frog8 said:
I like Sumlin but I will play... My candidate is Gart Kubiak

Beat Saban (NFL) ...check
Recruiting: NFL coach instant credibility with recruits ...check
Gets Aggieland ...check
Knows the Houston area ...check
Proven winner (super bowl). ...check
Can assemble a good staff ...check
Being an NFL coach does not make you a good recruiter. A lot of NFL coaches are NFL coaches because they want nothing to do with recruiting dumb ass HS prima donnas.

Plus, Gary is already having health issues.
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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10:41p, 10/23/16
AG
if Sumlin wins 11 this year if anything he might get another contract extension. that's not out of the question.

i've been a fan of his from the start even his strongest supporters have to be lil frustrated that we can't seem to break through against Bama. beating Bama more often than losing to them may not be realistic at this point and time but we gota be able to win at least 1 out of 3-4 times we play em.
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Meximan
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In reply to Orlando Ayala Cant Read • 1:35a, 10/24/16
Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:
if Sumlin wins 11 this year if anything he might get another contract extension. that's not out of the question.

i've been a fan of his from the start even his strongest supporters have to be lil frustrated that we can't seem to break through against Bama. beating Bama more often than losing to them may not be realistic at this point and time but we gota be able to win at least 1 out of 3-4 times we play em.
Nobody will be able to "break through" against Saban. From now until he retires, he will only ever allow a QB or coach to beat him once. Once. I think that's going to be about 8 to 12 years down the line.
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FCBlitz
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2:16a, 10/24/16
I disliked Summy

He Hired Chief and Chief has save his ass.

He hired the new OC and he is an big improvement.

I dislike him for making bad bad decisions as a head coach. But I will give him credit for Chief. As long as we are hovering on 10-2 I am good. I don't need him to when the NC for him to keep his job.
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