How many of them coach in the sec west?

Probably should keep Sumlin despite some of what has gone on. After Saban retires, he might have a shot at winning the SEC West. Be patient another 5 to 8 years or so.

Bottlehead90 said:

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How many of them coach in the sec west?

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4

10 coach in the B1G, SEC, and ACC. Of those, four make more than Sumlin:

Harbaugh
Fisher
Meyer
Saban

Sumlin and Harbaugh are the only coaches to not win a conference title and a national title with teams in one of those conferences.

If you include B1G, ACC, Pac 12, SEC and ND there are 14 coaches that have a better career winning percentage than Sumlin.

So, pick one of them. Throw out ND. So there are 13.

Pick one.

Lateralus Ag said:

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If you include B1G, ACC, Pac 12, SEC and ND there are 14 coaches that have a better career winning percentage than Sumlin.

So, pick one of them. Throw out ND. So there are 13.

Pick one.

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Alright, looks like sumlin is in pretty good company. 14 coaches out of how many total have a better record than sumlin? How many coaches took over a basketball on grass big 12 roster with no depth and avg about 9 wins a season in the SEC west? So who wants to come here after we fire sumlin for doing that?

Who, lateralus, realistically, do you expect us to go after and get? As in who is gonna leave their job out of those select 14 coaches that are doing pretty well at their places?


Can you bring up the coaches names and career records? Would you want the 14th best record? Would you settle for 13th? And they give us better chances at a natty?


I find it very interesting that you wait until we lose to a very dominant bama team that has beat everyone else so far to say that sumlin is chopped liver. I'd say he has weathered a lot of storms pretty well. He has transformed this team. Look at the roster he was left with. It looks pretty different now. Hes one of like 4 active coaches to have even beaten bama.

bigblackag12 said:

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Who, lateralus, realistically, do you expect us to go after and get? As in who is gonna leave their job out of those select 14 coaches that are doing pretty well at their places?


Can you bring up the coaches names and career records? Would you want the 14th best record? Would you settle for 13th? And they give us better chances at a natty?


I find it very interesting that you wait until we lose to a very dominant bama team that has beat everyone else so far to say that sumlin is chopped liver. I'd say he has weathered a lot of storms pretty well. He has transformed this team. Look at the roster he was left with. It looks pretty different now. Hes one of like 4 active coaches to have even beaten bama.

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Based on what they are making where they are, yea, i think most of them would talk to us and at least three or four would be very interested.

The roster he was left with is a sad excuse in year five.

So he beat Bama with JFF, KK, Evans, and Sherms oline studs. Great. Good for him. Left to his own receuiting and devices he has led us to a qb cluster, 8-5, 8-5 and whatever happens this year, which very well could be 3-4 losses including a bowl game. I would point out that last time we played bama close we lost four games that year. We did not play Bama close (19 points is not close, so spare me that nonsense). chances are we lose 3 or 4 this season.

I have said i wasnt a fan of Sumlin since he was hired. I am simply pointing out facts and numbers that back up my opinion. Thats what you do in these types of discussions.

Here is the link. Do your own homework. I already did mine.



http://www.coacheshotseat.com/WinningestActiveCoachesIA.htm

14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

Sumlin is paid on par with 3 other coaches that have won a national title and a conference champion. He is paid MORE than two coaches, in our conference, both of which have beat bama more than Sumlin and finished higher in the SEC West.

I am not saying Sumlin isnt average or slightly above. I am saying he isnt worth what he is paid, and those of you that think he is on par with the best coaches in the SEC or the rest of the field simply don't have the facts to back that up.

I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

Good for you.

Next question.

Quote:

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14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

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Sumlin makes $5M and has a HC record of 42-17
Freeze makes $5.14M and has a HC record of 37-22
Malzahn makes $5.4M and has a HC record of 32-15

Sorry, Lat. 0-4.

Edit: I got those salary numbers from Wikipedia. Though when I've tried to corroborate them, I can't find it. other sources put Freeze at 4.5 and Malzahn at 4.75. So if that's true, they do make less, though I still wouldn't call it a **** ton less.

phatbeast said:

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Quote:

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14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

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Sumlin makes $5M and has a HC record of 42-17
Freeze makes $5.14M and has a HC record of 37-22
Malzahn makes $5.4M and has a HC record of 32-15

Sorry, Lat. 0-4.

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I provided a link with my numbers. Where is your link?

oh, i forgot. You Sumlin guys dont use actual numbers with sources. You just make stuff up.

Link or stfu.

Goodnight girls. Sweet dreams.

Lateralus Ag said:

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phatbeast said:

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Quote:

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14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

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Sumlin makes $5M and has a HC record of 42-17
Freeze makes $5.14M and has a HC record of 37-22
Malzahn makes $5.4M and has a HC record of 32-15

Sorry, Lat. 0-4.

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I provided a link with my numbers. Where is your link?

oh, i forgot. You Sumlin guys dont use actual numbers with sources. You just make stuff up.

Link or stfu.

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I told you I got them from Wikipedia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Sumlin
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Freeze
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Malzahn

Also, I never clicked your link. I'm using HC records at their current programs. I see you were looking at overall records. I think the former is a better measure since they're all in the SECW now.

Sumlin was given market value. You aren't paid on results anymore, paycheck comes first then expectation for any coach that isn't already an established power. Our expectations were not what they are now when he was hired.

If you actually were aware of the HUGE deficit on defense Ayer 2012 that may explain why depth wad brought up. You don't compete in this league counting on a lot of freshman in the 2 deep, no matter how talented. We can only sign so many. We have had massive attrition. Blame sumlin because he brought them here i guess but what else could he have done? He literally needed the bodies. We converted wide recievers to linebacker and had players starting that would be 3rd string on our team now, and were still not supremely deep. Yet we won games. Even with a makeshift staff that sumlin has just now been able to fix.

He has learned from mistakes, just like saban did over his long career. Look at his stats at anywhere but bama. It takes several number 1 classes stacked to be as talented as ohio state and bama. So your argument isnt as black and white as you state. Its not simple. He has done a pretty good job considering the hurdles, but you probably wont give him that tip of the cap.


Id take sumlin over malzahn, unless the only thing you care about is winning, which malzahn doesnt do any more consistently than sumlin. Malzahn has a natty tho. So he is better by that metric. But sumlin is working some low key wonders here jumping all these hurdles. Our program is better than it has been in a very long time. And once again the trajectory is up after not really being that down.

I know you never liked him, but give him some credit. Like actually acknowledge all the good and the bad over the years and notice he has actually fixed almost all issues.

phatbeast said:

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Quote:

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14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

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Sumlin makes $5M and has a HC record of 42-17
Freeze makes $5.14M and has a HC record of 37-22
Malzahn makes $5.4M and has a HC record of 32-15

Sorry, Lat. 0-4.

Edit: I got those salary numbers from Wikipedia. Though when I've tried to corroborate them, I can't find it. other sources put Freeze at 4.5 and Malzahn at 4.75. So if that's true, they do make less, though I still wouldn't call it a **** ton less.

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Dont expect lat to argue fair. He wont.

Lat would be a good candidate for President with the amount of dishonest BS he spews.

Diet Cokehead said:

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Lat would be a good candidate for President with the amount of dishonest BS he spews.

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This dude...this dude brought up hugh freeze, hugh freeze, as a cocahing switch candidate. Citing that he has an overall record 2 spots better than sumlin (forget sec west record where sumlin is better, to keep it fair lets use overall) and that he has recruited better.

Hugh free$$ze recruiting better than us, while being investigated by the NCAA for improper benefits, is a valid point for lat. He would prefer hugh and his cheatin ass over sumlin because he has an overall conference record two spots better and makes a lil less.

Its actually pretty interesting to watch it unfold.

Lateralus Ag said:

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there are 23 active coaches that have a better winning percentage than Sumlin.

pick one.

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Mack Brown would have been one at the time they fired him, wouldn't he?

Quote:

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I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

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So have you told the Foundation you're cutting them off and they need to find another sugar daddy? Because this sounds like you have a whole lot of your own money in this deal.

Squadron7 said:

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Quote:

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I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

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So have you told the Foundation you're cutting them off and they need to find another sugar daddy? Because this sounds like you have a whole lot of your own money in this deal.

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Lat is all talk. He doesn't spend money on stuff like this.

I do agree with him sometimes though.

Bielema used to be on the replacement list, too, along with Freeze and Malzahn. And for the same reasons.

I guess that spreadsheets been updated.

cevans_40 said:

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Yet to hear an answer. This is exactly why I despise the potbangers. Just answer the damn question.

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There not a name that comes to mind unless we can convince Pete Carroll to come back to the college game or money whip Urban Meyer. That said, I see Sumlin being a Mack Brownesque coach in a better league. Lots of wins and a couple of lucky seasons, but not a lot of hardware and dominated by another coach in his division for most of his tenure. There's too much reliance on talent and recruiting and too little on development. I mean, really, what junior or senior player not on defense has become just outstanding and gotten significantly better over the last 2-3 years? Chief and Turner was a good start, but 2 coaches does not a good staff make.

I don't think Sumlin's ever going to take us to the next level. Even when saban is gone. We will still lose 2-3 games per year because it's key mistakes in big games. He could have 9-10 win seasons for the next 8 years while losing to bama, lsu, and ole miss every year and people like you would be happy because, "9-10 seasons are great and we shouldn't expect more than that in this league!" And that's how you become a perennial also ran like msu.

phatbeast said:

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Quote:

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14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

---

Sumlin makes $5M and has a HC record of 42-17
Freeze makes $5.14M and has a HC record of 37-22
Malzahn makes $5.4M and has a HC record of 32-15

Sorry, Lat. 0-4.

Edit: I got those salary numbers from Wikipedia. Though when I've tried to corroborate them, I can't find it. other sources put Freeze at 4.5 and Malzahn at 4.75. So if that's true, they do make less, though I still wouldn't call it a **** ton less.

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10% may not be a **** ton, but it's a decent chunk of change.

bigblackag12 said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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Lat would be a good candidate for President with the amount of dishonest BS he spews.

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This dude...this dude brought up hugh freeze, hugh freeze, as a cocahing switch candidate. Citing that he has an overall record 2 spots better than sumlin (forget sec west record where sumlin is better, to keep it fair lets use overall) and that he has recruited better.

Hugh free$$ze recruiting better than us, while being investigated by the NCAA for improper benefits, is a valid point for lat. He would prefer hugh and his cheatin ass over sumlin because he has an overall conference record two spots better and makes a lil less.

Its actually pretty interesting to watch it unfold.

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And Freeze's team may not even end up being bowl eligible this year.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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cevans_40 said:

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Yet to hear an answer. This is exactly why I despise the potbangers. Just answer the damn question.

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There not a name that comes to mind unless we can convince Pete Carroll to come back to the college game or money whip Urban Meyer. That said, I see Sumlin being a Mack Brownesque coach in a better league. Lots of wins and a couple of lucky seasons, but not a lot of hardware and dominated by another coach in his division for most of his tenure. There's too much reliance on talent and recruiting and too little on development. I mean, really, what junior or senior player not on defense has become just outstanding and gotten significantly better over the last 2-3 years? Chief and Turner was a good start, but 2 coaches does not a good staff make.

I don't think Sumlin's ever going to take us to the next level. Even when saban is gone. We will still lose 2-3 games per year because it's key mistakes in big games. He could have 9-10 win seasons for the next 8 years while losing to bama, lsu, and ole miss every year and people like you would be happy because, "9-10 seasons are great and we shouldn't expect more than that in this league!" And that's how you become a perennial also ran like msu.

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Seeing names like Pete Carrol and Urban Meyer tossed around as possibilities made me think I'd logged on to The Shag by mistake.

Okay, so no name comes to mind (other than the Shag-Level Reality Distortion of Carrol and Meyer) of a coach that will take us to the "Next Level".....which inherently means a complete roll of the dice on the next coach. Sure, we could always find the next Saban. Or we could roll snakeyes and get a Chobbit of our own (again). And when the entire list of possibles from all sources is so very short to begin with...and not just short...but in most cases containing some names whose known benefits can only be guessed at by those evaluating them...what are the odds of Next Saban to Chobbit?

Where would you put the odds of Success vs. Years in the Wilderness here? Because while it can be argued that we are still below that amorphous "next level" we are certainly not wandering in the wilderness (see Texas, circa 2016).

Full disclosure: My football and coaching knowledge is near non-existent...so I am asking this not as a rhetorical question but because I don't know: Are coaches unlike other professions somehow in that once a head coach you stop developing as a coach. Is Sumlin the same coach he was five years ago? Is he now a static entity? How many step into the HC job and excel immediately....and then remain there?

People point to Stoops, or Fisher, or Malzahn...all who won MNC early in their tenure and say "Look how early they did it"....but where are they now? Why did they not remain there? Did they lose that next level ability?

phatbeast said:

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bigblackag12 said:

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Diet Cokehead said:

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Lat would be a good candidate for President with the amount of dishonest BS he spews.

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This dude...this dude brought up hugh freeze, hugh freeze, as a cocahing switch candidate. Citing that he has an overall record 2 spots better than sumlin (forget sec west record where sumlin is better, to keep it fair lets use overall) and that he has recruited better.

Hugh free$$ze recruiting better than us, while being investigated by the NCAA for improper benefits, is a valid point for lat. He would prefer hugh and his cheatin ass over sumlin because he has an overall conference record two spots better and makes a lil less.

Its actually pretty interesting to watch it unfold.

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And Freeze's team may not even end up being bowl eligible this year.

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**** why wait? Snag him now. We can buy low and hope the NCAA still allows him to coach next year.

ElPasoAg01 said:

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Only real complaint about Sumlin is that our teams aren't particularly physical. Talent aside, because I don't think that Alabama is that much more talented, what stood out was how much more physical Alabama was than us. They whooped our asses man for man and we looked like we were not too interested in hitting back.

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I'm sorry to say, but you're removed from reality. The talent gap between Bama and A&M is still pretty damn big. They have had 6 straight #1 recruiting classes the last 6 years. The last 6 years for us we have probably averaged around #12. When discussing games, and comparing coaches and programs, you HAVE to discuss talent, because that is the absolute fundamental lifeblood of college football, which is an enormous reason why Bama has been and is so successful.

I'm not saying Sumlin has done bad at recruiting, in fact quite the contrary. He's done better than probably any previous coach we have had here. However, you can't say Alabama is not that much more talented than us and be taken seriously. They are a lot more talented than us at the moment. We are building talented depth no doubt, but not there yet.

I feel sorry for Lat. The Aggie football team is 6-1 and has been ranked inside the top 10 for 4 weeks now? I'f only A&M could lose more he might be happier.

Man! It must be personal for Lat! Did Sumlin leave you hanging? Did he turn down your application for Equipment Manager? Is your real name Kyler?

Pam Poovey said:

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Can't beat Bama without the blue chip athletes. Can't get the athletes bc they get swindled by Chuck or bought by other programs willing to flat out cheat (more than we are).

Not Sumlin's fault. This is as good as it gets. Sucks, but we have all the facilities and staff pieces. Bama's talent just can't be beaten. Sorry guys.

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This. With the demise of the 'sips and the BDF, and our success so far that will hopefully extend through the rest of the season, our recruiting should get better and better. We are not a NC team yet but we are a lot closer than we have ever been. Sumlin has not made perfect decisions but he seems to be getting better at it.

I think he needs another year or two and he will have us in the playoffs.

At some point you cannot be paralyzed by a fear of the unknown of who you will hire next.

At some point you have to decide if your current guy is achieving what you realistically want to achieve, and if he is not, then you fire him and you go out and do the hard work and evaluate the options you do have and make a hire.

Every great coach was an unknown at one point or another. The Athletic Director and his staff get paid big bucks to evaluate who can become great.

Nick Saban was one just a guy who did a good job in one singular season at Toledo. Michigan State made the evaluation that he would reinvigorate their program and he did.

He then he was the guy who had the one top 10 season at Michigan State and LSU made the evaluation he could get them back to annual contention even though he hadn't done that before.

And you can go down the list of great coaches, someone or multiple someone's took a chance on them.

Also, why is everyone focusing on Alabama when we haven't beat LSU?

Don't know the next guy.

Lateralus Ag said:

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bigblackag12 said:

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Who, lateralus, realistically, do you expect us to go after and get? As in who is gonna leave their job out of those select 14 coaches that are doing pretty well at their places?


Can you bring up the coaches names and career records? Would you want the 14th best record? Would you settle for 13th? And they give us better chances at a natty?


I find it very interesting that you wait until we lose to a very dominant bama team that has beat everyone else so far to say that sumlin is chopped liver. I'd say he has weathered a lot of storms pretty well. He has transformed this team. Look at the roster he was left with. It looks pretty different now. Hes one of like 4 active coaches to have even beaten bama.

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Based on what they are making where they are, yea, i think most of them would talk to us and at least three or four would be very interested.

The roster he was left with is a sad excuse in year five.

So he beat Bama with JFF, KK, Evans, and Sherms oline studs. Great. Good for him. Left to his own receuiting and devices he has led us to a qb cluster, 8-5, 8-5 and whatever happens this year, which very well could be 3-4 losses including a bowl game. I would point out that last time we played bama close we lost four games that year. We did not play Bama close (19 points is not close, so spare me that nonsense). chances are we lose 3 or 4 this season.

I have said i wasnt a fan of Sumlin since he was hired. I am simply pointing out facts and numbers that back up my opinion. Thats what you do in these types of discussions.

Here is the link. Do your own homework. I already did mine.



http://www.coacheshotseat.com/WinningestActiveCoachesIA.htm

14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

Sumlin is paid on par with 3 other coaches that have won a national title and a conference champion. He is paid MORE than two coaches, in our conference, both of which have beat bama more than Sumlin and finished higher in the SEC West.

I am not saying Sumlin isnt average or slightly above. I am saying he isnt worth what he is paid, and those of you that think he is on par with the best coaches in the SEC or the rest of the field simply don't have the facts to back that up.

I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

Good for you.

Next question.

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Blue parachute for you.

Lateralus Ag said:

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bigblackag12 said:

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Who, lateralus, realistically, do you expect us to go after and get? As in who is gonna leave their job out of those select 14 coaches that are doing pretty well at their places?


Can you bring up the coaches names and career records? Would you want the 14th best record? Would you settle for 13th? And they give us better chances at a natty?


I find it very interesting that you wait until we lose to a very dominant bama team that has beat everyone else so far to say that sumlin is chopped liver. I'd say he has weathered a lot of storms pretty well. He has transformed this team. Look at the roster he was left with. It looks pretty different now. Hes one of like 4 active coaches to have even beaten bama.

---

Based on what they are making where they are, yea, i think most of them would talk to us and at least three or four would be very interested.

The roster he was left with is a sad excuse in year five.

So he beat Bama with JFF, KK, Evans, and Sherms oline studs. Great. Good for him. Left to his own receuiting and devices he has led us to a qb cluster, 8-5, 8-5 and whatever happens this year, which very well could be 3-4 losses including a bowl game. I would point out that last time we played bama close we lost four games that year. We did not play Bama close (19 points is not close, so spare me that nonsense). chances are we lose 3 or 4 this season.

I have said i wasnt a fan of Sumlin since he was hired. I am simply pointing out facts and numbers that back up my opinion. Thats what you do in these types of discussions.

Here is the link. Do your own homework. I already did mine.



http://www.coacheshotseat.com/WinningestActiveCoachesIA.htm

14th on that list is Malzahn. 13th is Freeze. Both of them make a **** ton less than Sumlin and have outrecruited Sumlin and have better records than Sumlin with less.

Sumlin is paid on par with 3 other coaches that have won a national title and a conference champion. He is paid MORE than two coaches, in our conference, both of which have beat bama more than Sumlin and finished higher in the SEC West.

I am not saying Sumlin isnt average or slightly above. I am saying he isnt worth what he is paid, and those of you that think he is on par with the best coaches in the SEC or the rest of the field simply don't have the facts to back that up.

I have said it all along. If you are happy with 8-5, 7-6 type seasons most years with a 9 or 10 win season every 6-7 years, great, keep paying Sumlin top two money for bottom half of the division results.

Good for you.

Next question.

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freeze is 37-22 at Ole Miss. Are you really ****ing including his record as the Head Coach at LAMBUTH and ARKANSAS STATE??? Is that really what you are going to to 'prove' Freeze is a better value than Sumlin?

Outside of a freaking ridiculous year in 2013 what has Gus done at Auburn? He is 32-15 at Auburn. Gus is going to need a lot of wins over the next 1.5 seasons to equal Sumlin's record.

Quote:

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Every great coach was an unknown at one point or another. The Athletic Director and his staff get paid big bucks to evaluate who can become great.

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The athletic director at Texas A&M does not and will not ever choose who coaches football. He's told who he will hire, and he has to like it.