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What was your point then?

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I don't think Ben was convicted of rape. In the eyes of the NFL, that means he's a saint. But legalities aside....

Roethlisberger was already an established QB. Steelers was going to give him some leeway because they already know what they got - a pretty good QB. They're going to be more tolerant of the sh.t he does because what he does on the field outweighs whatever sh.t he gets into off of it.

Johnny hasn't proven that he can be a successful QB in the NFL. Browns can cut Johnny right now and lose nothing because he hasn't done anything as the starter except for the game against the Steelers, coincidentally. They're not going to hold the starting job warm for him while he grows up because he's not worth the trouble. You're ain't going to lose anything when you had nothing to start with.

You think all rehab programs are Based on the 12 step method. You are truly the go to on this.

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so now we are all experts on addiction and have diagnosed Johnny as an addict?

this place is unreal

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Do a lot of non-addicts go to rehab?

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depends on the goal of your rehabilitation. I think it is an over generalization to assume that someone going to rehab is an admission of addiction.

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Except rehab does not actually work.

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It worked for my brother. He was addicted to heroin, went to rehab, and has been sober for 18 years.

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Excellent sample size.

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You made the blanket statement that "rehab doesn't work". Thus I only had to provide a single counterexample to prove you wrong.

HTH you learn how to argue competently in the future.

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The recovery rate from rehab is no better than recovery without rehab. Thus, rehab doesn't work.

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You think all rehab programs are Based on the 12 step method. You are truly the go to on this.

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Nice deflection. Pick your rehab program, I just chose a popular one. They are still all based off of flawed research that is over 70 years old.

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so now we are all experts on addiction and have diagnosed Johnny as an addict?

this place is unreal

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Its the equivalent of saying he has no problems and is a model citizen.

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where has anyone said he is a model citizen? He has his faults, we all do.

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so now we are all experts on addiction and have diagnosed Johnny as an addict?

this place is unreal

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True.

It's more likely that he just likes to party and is a binge drinker. That's a little different than being an addict.

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Quite possibly the most irresponsible and out of control athletes ever. Not one mistake.. But over and over and essentially the same old thing

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Basically that the American views and treatment of addiction is completely based off of one stupid test with rats choosing water with Heroin in it over clean water. There is no such thing as addiction, it is just a crutch we lean on to justify our actions on why we want to do bad things.

If you give enough responsibility and care to someone, then they are much less likely to go down a self destructive path.

It's extremely interesting, and shows how ridiculous the whole concept of the 12 step program besides the fact that you get cutoff from the object long enough to where your system is clean.

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Your whole argument is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter if rehab is ridiculous and completely ineffective.

Johnny didn't live up to his agreement. --------------> Johnny sits.

What more can I do to get this simple concept through your thick skull?

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What was your point then?

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I don't think Ben was convicted of rape. In the eyes of the NFL, that means he's a saint. But legalities aside....

Roethlisberger was already an established QB. Steelers was going to give him some leeway because they already know what they got - a pretty good QB. They're going to be more tolerant of the sh.t he does because what he does on the field outweighs whatever sh.t he gets into off of it.

Johnny hasn't proven that he can be a successful QB in the NFL. Browns can cut Johnny right now and lose nothing because he hasn't done anything as the starter except for the game against the Steelers, coincidentally. They're not going to hold the starting job warm for him while he grows up because he's not worth the trouble. You're ain't going to lose anything when you had nothing to start with.

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FIFY

Pettine hasn't proven that he can be a successful HC in the NFL. Where is all of the outcry from ESPN and social media judges?

What agreement? You are the one who brought up rehab and addiction, don't blame me because your stance is flawed.

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Basically that the American views and treatment of addiction is completely based off of one stupid test with rats choosing water with Heroin in it over clean water. There is no such thing as addiction, it is just a crutch we lean on to justify our actions on why we want to do bad things.

If you give enough responsibility and care to someone, then they are much less likely to go down a self destructive path.

It's extremely interesting, and shows how ridiculous the whole concept of the 12 step program besides the fact that you get cutoff from the object long enough to where your system is clean.

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Your whole argument is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter if rehab is ridiculous and completely ineffective.

Johnny didn't live up to his agreement. Johnny sits.

What more can I do to get this simple concept through your thick skull?

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We understand the concept. Does not make it any less ****ing idiotic.

If manziels ability on the field outweighs all this crap some team will give him a chance. Once that changes, he's done.

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Pettine hasn't proven that he can be a successful HC in the NFL. Where is all of the outcry from ESPN and social media judges?

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Here's the difference...if Pettine gets fired, it would be due to his inability to coach.

Johnny got demoted to 3rd string because he went out partying and not due to his on the field play. He got demoted because he's a dumb ass. All he had to do was just stay out of the limelight for six weeks. He couldn't even manage to do that for one fking week.

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You guys are overthinking this. Johnny and Pettine meet prior to the off period, Pettine tells Johnny that because he is now the starting QB, he needs to act like one, be the face of the team...all the stuff you see Pettine spout in his press conferences. Johnny then sincerely tells Pettine no worries, he understood the responsibility and would behave. Fast forward, Pettine goes into the office and see the media stories on the video and says "$%&# you Johnny".

It is all about two guys who do not trust or like each other and the one with more pull exercised his power.

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Very likely.

The issue I have with this is the "face of the franchise" crap. If a man worth millions of dollars can't leave town and go to a bar, why not just move to North Korea? Why be a professional entertainer?

Pettine is too worried about keeping Johnny in check. What he needs to worry about is finding a RB, OL, DBs, DL, and LBs so said QB can manage a game.

Again, Pettin has performed far worse than JFF.

ESPN's Louis Rid**** perfectly summarizes why Johnny got benched. It has nothing to do with "was it legal" or not.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14215359/cleveland-browns-start-josh-mccown-johnny-manziel

Pettine and the other morons in the browns office would probably like to worry about other personnel issues but Manziel isn't making that possible.

Is he really an addict, or just a spoiled a-hole?

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Is he really an addict, or just a spoiled a-hole?

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he can be both

the Browns and Pettine are idiots

Idiots for drafting this guy

Do we really know the whole story?

they are idiots because they don't understand that the NFL is all about:

(1) winning and (2) entertainment.

JF checks the block for both this coming Monday night

My guess is JFF is actually a genius and this is done purposely. If he plays the rest of this season, he is gonna get killed on that crappy a$$ team and he knows it. He will not be able to look very good over a long stretch with the lack of talent around him.

Sooooo....let me do what I know the Browns don't want me too. They will cut or trade me and I will have a better chance elsewhere!

It's possible!!!

To do it that way would cost him a lot of money

In retrospect, its amazing Johnny didn't implode in college

After all Pettine has done to make the Browns such a juggernaut in the NFL I think it's hilarious that he is the one to bench Johnny for failing to live up to his promise of "not embarrassing the franchise".

Does queso get a yearly bonus when he makes a certain number of snide comments about Johnny?

Well it's one thing to do it by losing games and it's another to do it the way Manziel is

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Well it's one thing to do it by losing games and it's another to do it the way Manziel is

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Not really.

Yes, really.

It happens in that job, not everyone wins or is good at being a head coach.

The other is a direct result of stupidity and an inability to grow up.