Yeah.... I guess I ****ed up when I did.... Dammit.

So, we have seen the Rioters faction in the closed beta. Ubi put up a video with some of the other factions. I don't remember Rikers group and I definitely don't remember seeing the Last Man Battalion in the beta. I think I saw a few Cleaners though.

Yeah, saw the rioters and cleaners.

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You feel pretty angry towards this game for giving you a free preview of a beta build that they didn't have to do. As stated, the beta isn't meant to be a finished project or provide you countless free hours of the game. It is meant to demonstrate certain features of the game to gain feedback from the community as well as let them gather data on NPC and PvP interactions.

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I'm going to guess most of y'all have grown up with the industry and it's what you've come to expect and even accept.

Personally, I don't care for the business model. You may say it's effective marketing, I'll just call it dishonest. They encourage me to preorder, buy the season pass, effectively "throw money at the screen," and then they don't deliver. The game you sold me on is not the game I bought.

So, when I play the beta and see the glaring deficiencies in what Ubisoft told me I was going to be buying and what I'm actually getting then I'm a pretty disappointed consumer, who can't cancel a preorder, and I want to see what else you got. Show me more.

I don't know if you recall, but in the E3 trailers the AI were more tactical and you could here them communicating. That doesn't exist. I'm two decades removed from gaming, but I'm surprised y'all don't see this as just another shooter.

Then there is the issue of exclusive content:

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According to the details, not only will Season Pass owners will have access to exclusive outfits, weapons and weapon skins. They will also be able to participate in monthly events and content drops.

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Plus on March 8, Season Pass owners will unlock the exclusive Sawed-off Shotgun, a unique sidearm customized for short-range destruction. Season Pass owners also receive a set of exclusive outfits and weapon skins, as well as access to special monthly benefits including exclusive content drops and special events.

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- Ubisoft
It appears as though the content will not be made available to those that choose to purchase the DLC as standalone content, even after a period of time. Hopefully, Ubisoft will balance the exclusive content with free monthly in-game event for those that choose to disregard the Season Pass.

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Gamezone

I have no problem with people who pay more getting more. However, is this going to be like Destiny where the original content is not that extensive? Are the "exclusive content drops" going to be gear which alter game play in pvp?

And for me, I don't care for the grind and games where the sole purpose is to gain better gear, as this comment from their forums testifies:

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What people seens to forget while you can get very good loot in dz, you can also get same loot from running hard mode to mission...

From playing the beta i know all the enemy spawn points where all you need to do is quickly killl the boss grab the high tier loot and go to nearest extraction, now since we have an obvious problem with ppl camping extraction...

Also you can just run from spawn point to spawn point killing the adds as quick as possible and getting DZ Money then go to the checkpoint and buy gear from Vendors...

I farm mobs for little under 2 hours and got enough DZ Money ran to all vendors and bought myself 2 purple mods, did a 2 hour farming then got a purple MA rifle (snipe), then got into a party of 4 farm 45 min and brought a purple RPK.. I made over 35 thousand Dark Zone Currency in the 3 days i played beta...

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As of right now, I believe with all the content available the game is going to be a grind. So, yeah, given I already paid for your product, I would have liked to see a little more in the beta.

In case anyone else couldn't see what jeffk posted...

Open Beta, Feb 19-21

Starts a day earlier for XB1 and you can preload on the 16th. It's basically what was in the closed beta plus another story mission and a bunch of bug fixes.

And yeah IT'S STILL A BETA so go ahead and get all pissy now because you don't get access to all the unlocks and the full-game experience.

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I don't know if you recall, but in the E3 trailers the AI were more tactical and you could here them communicating. That doesn't exist. I'm two decades removed from gaming, but I'm surprised y'all don't see this as just another shooter.

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I remember hearing player chatter, and I seem to remember NPC's chatting about stuff as well sometimes in the beta. Even heard proximity chatter in the DZ. But then again between the weapons fire and explosions going off it was rather difficult to hear them sometimes. :P

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As of right now, I believe with all the content available the game is going to be a grind. So, yeah, given I already paid for your product, I would have liked to see a little more in the beta.

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Isn't that like every RPG ever? Grind to get to the next set of gear? The next level? Gain more experience for
the next ability?

I'm not sure what the issue here is unless you were expecting more of a shooter as opposed to an rpg based game.

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And yeah IT'S STILL A BETA so go ahead and get all pissy now because you don't get access to all the unlocks and the full-game experience.

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I HAVENT EVEN PLAYED THE GAME AND IM MAD AT IT. THOSE GOSH DARN DEVELOPERS AND THEIR DESIRES TO BUSINESS.

/sarc

Good thing I didn't uninstall the Beta - I had some sweet apparel unlocked.

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Isn't that like every RPG ever? Grind to get to the next set of gear? The next level? Gain more experience for
the next ability?

I'm not sure what the issue here is unless you were expecting more of a shooter as opposed to an rpg based game.

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I'm an older guy...I don't know what I'm expecting.

Actually--and I have zero experience as I've only played Destiny, Borderlands, and Battlefront--so maybe you can educate me, but in Borderlands I didn't have to grind to get good gear and keep game play fun. In Battlefront I had the same access to weapons and gear as everyone else that allowed me to compete. Whereas in Destiny, and what looks like The Division, lack of quality gear impacts game play.

millertyme also seemed to express what I was thinking on the previous page

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I don't think the grind between a COD/BF game is the same kind of grind of a Destiny (and maybe the Division). With COD and BF, the map stays the same but the game dynamic changes depending on your human opponents. The play of your teammates and opponents influenced how I approached the game. The reason I quit playing Destiny is the game dynamic was always the same during the grind - Shoot these mobs, kill that guy, more mobs, then the big boss. The weapons grind was different too. COD/BF has a tiered system that tells you if you reach Lvl X, you will get this gun. The Destiny/Division system is more random - "congrats for beating this again, here is a helmet. Already have that helmet? Well, here is the helmet."

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Maybe you can tell me, what am I looking for?

Edit: just to say I'm being sincere, I don't have the game experience y'all do

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Maybe you can tell me, what am I looking for?

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So far we have had side missions that give you xp to spend on the base for upgrades and one main story mission. Then there is the DZ to run around in, kill NPC's, extract the gear, if the gear isn't good sell it to make cash, and earn DZ currency to spend on guns/gear at the various vendors at the entrances/checkpoints or the vendor that was actually in the DZ that had the high end rifle and shotgun.

Borderlands drops scaled as you went along in the story mode and were completely random on what it oculd be IIRC. Battlefront is a bit of an outllier here because it has zero campaign element (and also isn't an RPG) so you're required to do BF4 type of multiplayer to actually acquire unlocks. AFAIK, The Division, Destiny, and Battlefront puts you into bracketed groups by level.

I'm still not seeing the problem here. I don't think anyone had any amazing unlocks/drop gear that couldn't be found at the vendors since the gear rotated every 24 hours. So equatable gear should be relatively available to everyone. I can't help you if you are complaining that the better gear is there but you don't want to put in the effort/time required to get it.

From the beta at the begining of the month my backpack, knee pads, mask, best, marksmanship rifle, and gloves were all bought from vendors and were purple or blue gear. I think the gloves were blue, but all other was purple. Then the only high end gear I had was the assault rifle from the vendor in the DZ safe house. Even with all that, I still got killed regularly in the DZ. Sometimes by guys with less powerful guns/gear.

Is this making sense or am I misunderstanding what you are going for here?

Sheesh... If I play the open beta I'll probably have 10 hours with the game before it even releases.

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I can't help you if you are complaining that the better gear is there but you don't want to put in the effort/time required to get it.

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This is it right here.

The pvp portion of the game is going to be lost on me because I'm not going to put the time in.

It's the same problem I had with Destiny. That leaves me with pve, which I'm concerned is going to be a disappointment.

Well, I said it before, I waited two decades for when games offered an appealing aesthetic and realism to buy a system--and now I'm too old to play the games I was interested in.

The DZ isn't solely a pvp arena. Though pvp does occur at a higher rate there. While you can get currency and gear that way, you can also get it by opening the DZ chests and fighting npc's. I'm sure you're well aware of that if you played the beta.

Look, you seem pretty set on judging the game before it's been released. That's cool, but saying that you don't have an equal chance at gear is pretty wrong. What it sounds like you are looking for is a traditional shooter like COD. Maybe something like Arma 3 if sim military shooters is more your thing.

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I can't help you if you are complaining that the better gear is there but you don't want to put in the effort/time required to get it.

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This is it right here.

The pvp portion of the game is going to be lost on me because I'm not going to put the time in.

It's the same problem I had with Destiny. That leaves me with pve, which I'm concerned is going to be a disappointment.

Well, I said it before, I waited two decades for when games offered an appealing aesthetic and realism to buy a system--and now I'm too old to play the games I was interested in.

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I don't get that. Is the only point to a game is to get the best gear? The PvE element of The Division, which is essentially the single player/co-op portion of the game, is going to be massive. Missions and side missions galore all over NYC. It's a story and you're going around accomplishing things, just like any other single player/co-op campaign. I play those for the story, don't really care how good the gear I get is...

Also, as mentioned many times, you are only grouped with people in your skill level. They can't equip gear outside of a certain skill level. If you play mainly the single player and dabble in the PvP element, you should not be so outmatched that you never stand a chance. It also appears you are ranked not just on your skill level, but also on your DZ level. I would assume that if you are really bad at the game, you would be grouped in lower DZ levels than if you are great at the game.

I feel, and people can correct me, the "grind" is about getting the absolute best gear possible vs just having good gear. A legendary gun that does 300DMG vs a regular gun that does 275DMG. A mod that gives you +10% critical chance vs +6% critical chance, etc. You can play the single player and have fun in the multiplayer portions without getting the best possible gear. Now if I am wrong, and that is not the case... say a regualr lvl 7 gun is 250DMG and a legendary lvl 7 gun is 1250DMG (assuming same class) then yeah it could get unbalanced pretty quickly, but that is what these alphas/betas try to identify and re-balance if needed.

My blue m4 did something 4900 dps, where as the high end assault rifle in the same equipment load out did a little over 5000. The difference was negligible IMO, and what really mattered were the attachments that provided an accuracy bonus. I used my blue m4 until like the last day of the beta.

Eta: And the m4 I bought from the weapon dealer in the camp you start at. It wasn't even a drop. No pvp required.

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The DZ isn't solely a pvp arena. Though pvp does occur at a higher rate there. While you can get currency and gear that way, you can also get it by opening the DZ chests and fighting npc's. I'm sure you're well aware of that if you played the beta.

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I said this earlier in the thread: I tried it solo, put in some time to obtain gear only to be killed and have my stuff stolen. That's just punishing and leaves me with no incentive or motivation to continue.

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Look, you seem pretty set on judging the game before it's been released. That's cool...

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Yes. I am making a judgement based upon prior experience, available data, and the reviews of notable people in the industry to formulate an opinion and share it on these forums.

I'm glad you're cool with that and you didn't refer to me as angry or pissy and tell me to gtfo

Thanks for the input on traditional shooters. It's all new to me, although I imagine with the cash cow Destiny is/can be everything may gravitate towards these hybrid MMOs.

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I said this earlier in the thread: I tried it solo, put in some time to obtain gear only to be killed and have my stuff stolen. That's just punishing and leaves me with no incentive or motivation to continue.

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Running around in the DZ solo isn't impossible, or all that difficult. You do have to know when to cut and run though. It is much easier to do it all with a group. I'm not sure what platform you are playing on, but I can guarantee that there is someone in this thread that is on the same platform and would likely group up with a fellow Ag. If you are on PC, add me on uplay (same as my forum name). Whenever I'm on, I'd be more than happy to team up with you in the DZ.

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Thanks for the input on traditional shooters. It's all new to me, although I imagine with the cash cow Destiny is/can be everything may gravitate towards these hybrid MMOs.

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Call of Duty and the Battlefield franchises have been around for over a decade now. Really what you are unhappy with about The Division is that it is an RPG at it's core and not just a FPS. So you're essentially complaining that a game isn't what it isn't to begin with.

So who is going to make an xbox thread so I can decide if I'm getting sucked into this?

I got chew fam

Thanks for the invite, but I'm on PS4. I appreciate it nonetheless.


Here's hoping it's the game we've all been waiting for.


I deleted the beta myself. Don't know if I want to jump on again or just wait until the full release.

Uplay has some numbers posted from the close beta. Someone played for 90 hours out of 120 in the close beta. roughly 9.3 million grenades thrown and just short of 15 million bullets fired. Most lethal weapon was M4.

Dark Zone stats: total playtime 4,275,086 hours, 77% took to the DZ, and 87% of those that went to the DZ turned rogue.

I see an XB1 thread. Someone going to take the liberty with the PS4 thread?

I mean damn, that person spent 3/4's the beta playing and the other 1/4 sleeping, that is like what 18hours a day playing and 6 hours sleeping, he had to have left it on or something for that to be true otherwise I don't even know what to say.

I would guess multiple people using one account, like 3-4 people sharing an apartment and a single account to play.

Open Beta patch notes have been put out. Here's the meat of it IMO.

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Dark Zone

• New high end weapons are available in the Dark Zone
• Refresh rate on Dark Zone Chests has been greatly reduced
• Non-player enemies in the Dark Zone have increased in number significantly
• Non-player enemies in the Dark Zone have been buffed slightly
• The Manhunt timer now pauses instead of refreshing while in combat as a level 5 Rogue Agent
• The reward for surviving as a Rogue Agent has been increased to 1.5 times the kill bounty
• The health bars for Agents in the Dark Zone now only turns red when they become Rogue
• A new warning icon has been added to indicate an Agent who has shot another player but has not done enough damage to go Rogue
• Dark Zone experience gain has been adjusted slightly
• Dark Zone funds gain has been adjusted slightly
• Disabled the option to transfer Dark Zone brackets as a Rogue Agent (this stops players using bracket transfer to escape after becoming Rogue)
• Removed some ropes that allowed players to reach areas that gave them an unfair advantage

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Added emphasis by me. There is also a lot of bug fixes as well at the link.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1387423-Open-Beta-Patch-Notes

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Uplay has some numbers posted from the close beta. Someone played for 90 hours out of 120 in the close beta. roughly 9.3 million grenades thrown and just short of 15 million bullets fired. Most lethal weapon was M4.

Dark Zone stats: total playtime 4,275,086 hours, 77% took to the DZ, and 87% of those that went to the DZ turned rogue.

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It's like....society crumbled or something.

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Or someone jumped in front of you while you were shooting a rogue/npc and turned rogue because of that one bullet. And were then murdered by everyone around you.

It's interesting right, because if you think about the dark zone, you are in the worst of the worst, no one has support, the virus is rampant, bad guys all around, and even those who are sworn to help are tempted to go rogue for a leg up and survival. So I think the tension, watch your back, get what you can and get out atmosphere would lead to people shooting first and asking questions later. I think you are friend but see a single bullet go into another person, I am taking you out before asking if that was an accident. So while it sucks someone could step in front of you and cause you to go rogue, it is not unreasonable situation to happen and have it turn against you in that environment.

It seems they are doing something about it though.

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A new warning icon has been added to indicate an Agent who has shot another player but has not done enough damage to go Rogue

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So my stray bullet won't turn me rogue immediately. Don't know about that stray grenade though; it will be interesting to figure out the damage threshold between rogue and not rogue.

I would assume it has a dmg threshold you have to cross. Do more than 100DMG to an enemy and you go rogue or something. I don't think it will be as common outside of grenades and such and I think that's fine. I also, if memory recalls, you can't harm people in your squad in the DZ. Would have to double check on that. I am sure people will attempt to abuse it if they can find a way but no game is free of that. Allow team killing and people will do it just to be jerks, don't allow friendly fire and people will run into grenades with no fear of it hurting them and only enemy. It is a hard thing to balance.

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It seems they are doing something about it though.

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A new warning icon has been added to indicate an Agent who has shot another player but has not done enough damage to go Rogue

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So my stray bullet won't turn me rogue immediately. Don't know about that stray grenade though; it will be interesting to figure out the damage threshold between rogue and not rogue.

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The closed beta was this way. On 2 separate occasions, I shot someone as they crossed between me and a rogue agent. I did not turn rogue. But it was only a bullet or two each time.

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I would assume it has a dmg threshold you have to cross. Do more than 100DMG to an enemy and you go rogue or something. I don't think it will be as common outside of grenades and such and I think that's fine. I also, if memory recalls, you can't harm people in your squad in the DZ. Would have to double check on that. I am sure people will attempt to abuse it if they can find a way but no game is free of that. Allow team killing and people will do it just to be jerks, don't allow friendly fire and people will run into grenades with no fear of it hurting them and only enemy. It is a hard thing to balance.

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In the closed beta the first thing my squad did in the DZ was shot each other to figure out if it did damage or not; to know if we had to be careful about it.

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It seems they are doing something about it though.

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A new warning icon has been added to indicate an Agent who has shot another player but has not done enough damage to go Rogue

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So my stray bullet won't turn me rogue immediately. Don't know about that stray grenade though; it will be interesting to figure out the damage threshold between rogue and not rogue.

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The closed beta was this way. On 2 separate occasions, I shot someone as they crossed between me and a rogue agent. I did not turn rogue. But it was only a bullet or two each time.

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Okay I did some reading and you're right. In the beta if you shot someone your health bar turned from white to red but you weren't a rogue yet (doing more damage or killing them caused you to go rogue with a red bar and skull). Which just made it confusing since people just see a red bar and started shooting. Hopefully the warning icon is yellow or something easily discernible as not rogue.

Yeah. I remember having a vantage point as 2 guys ran in and shot someone during extraction. I started shooting at them and a guy ran through my line of sight. My health bar changed red so I took off thinking I had just turned rogue but noticed it turned back to white a few seconds later.

I think this is the method people were using to bait others into "turning rogue". A person would shoot someone once or twice and the shootee would retaliate thinking the shooter had turned rogue but would turn rogue themselves. Then the original shooter could shoot them for rep, credits, and free gear.