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The problem with the movie and with Ultron as a villain, was that you didn't for a second think that anyone had any chance of dying. Nobody struggled with the robot army either.

And just when you think they might be in over their heads, they miraculously discover/ create a new all powered superhero to defeat the greatest enemy they have ever faced. I don't think Vision should have been in this movie, and I definitely think Ultron should have spanned multiple movies.

And you have a freaking God on your side. In his own movies, he is all powerful and feared across worlds. Yet on Earth, he is just a member of a team and barely more powerful than other members.

This movie was fantastic, but the whole thing didn't have the feel of the first one. That with overwhelming odds and nowhere to turn, they had to work together to win.

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Hit the nail on the head, entirely, for me. Good movie...just not great for me. I expected more peril for the Avengers. They seemed to have a quite bit more peril in the first movie. They cut through this robot army like a hot knife through butter.

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Not sure what Paltrow is thinking. Pepper Potts is the only decent thing she's done in the last ten years, imo.

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Who said she turned it down? She wasn't necessary for this movie.

Wrong thread.

In the end, Ultron is the main villain, but the real dangers to the Avengers are insecurity and fear.

Stark is scared that he may be responsible for the end of the world, and in trying to stop it, almost causes it. Romanoff is alone, because of what was done to her, and what she has done in the past. Banner has the Hulk. Thor has Asgard to worry about (and I think we miss a lot for his subplot being cut). That's why those guys are really unsettled.

On the other hand, Cap has basically lost everything already before, and since he has faith in a higher purpose, he's able to deal with things a little better. And here's why I think Hawkeye really hit a home run in AoO: he's a regular human guy. Normal life is all about finding a way to cope with stress. Every day, Barton is dealing with his family's safety and well being, knowing that he's the most physically vulnerable Avenger. Fighting a super computer with a robot body and thousands of minions? He calls that "Tuesday." That's why those two have the strength of character in this situation.

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Not sure what Paltrow is thinking. Pepper Potts is the only decent thing she's done in the last ten years, imo.

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Who said she turned it down? She wasn't necessary for this movie.

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Oh, I didn't necessarily mean that she turned it down. Just that, the last non Marvel movie in which she had an important role that turned a profit was....

Shallow Hal, 2001.

If I was her, I would be finding ways to be in the biggest movie series ever.

Pretty great article on the themes of the movie...

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/05/04/age-of-ultron-consequences-legacies-killer-robots

She was in Contagion, but so was everyone else in Hollywood and she is dead within the first 10 minutes. That's not a spoiler - it's kind of her role in the film.

Alas

i really like that article, probably the best i've read yet

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Pretty great article on the themes of the movie...

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/05/04/age-of-ultron-consequences-legacies-killer-robots

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Good article,

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While the Ultron business is about personal legacies, much of the larger thematics of Age of Ultron is about America finding itself in a world post-Vietnam and Iraq, a world where the nation that was once the liberator of Europe is now the imperialist warmonger. Cap skipping all of those years makes this all the more poignant, as he's the living embodiment of what America once meant to the world, while Tony Stark defines what America has become.

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Who says Comic Book Movies can't be deep?

Good podcast, with interviews with Joss Whedon and Paul Bettany:

https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/avengers-age-of-ultron-spoiler-podcast-joss-whedon-and-paul-bettany

I don't think anyone has brought up Andy Serkis - man that guy needs to movie even more.

Saw it last night and thought it was very good but fell short of the greatness of the first Avengers and a few of the others. My biggest complaint was that everything felt hurried with scenes seeming incomplete or not fully fleshed out. Also, its getting to where there are just too many damn characters. The movie would go long stretches where a character would just disappear. Scarlet Witch and Vision, being so important to the movie and to the future of other possible storylines in the marvel universe were underused and underdeveloped IMO. Vision popped in about 3/4 of the way into the movie and then got five minutes of screen time. Ultron just seemed like a stepping stone until Thanos in the infinity war and was redundant to the previous Avengers. Instead of a swarm of aliens, we get a swarm of robots. I thought it was a mistake to start the movie in the middle of a battle. The continuity from the previous Avengers seemed lost to me. The awe of seeing these characters together and fighting each other for the first time wasn't there (but with being the second movie, can't really fault anyone on that).

As usual, the action was top notch and the one liners were great in usual Joss Whedon style. Despite my complaints, I was still very much entertained, which is the point of going to a movie. The scene where all the characters were trying to pick up Thor's hammer was one of the best in all of the MCU. I would give this movie a B+ and rank it fifth among all the MCU movies.

So is Coulson still alive or what?

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So is Coulson still alive or what?

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Just in case you are:

http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon

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We caught up with the writer-director to discuss the new film, and asked if Phil Coulson is indeed still deceased as far as the movies are concerned.
"Yeah he's dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream. It's a Jacob's Ladder moment he's having at the point of death, but we don't give that away until after season seven. And there's a snow globe. Now I've given it away. Bollocks!
"It's a weird little yes and no. As far as I'm concerned in the films, yes he's dead. In terms of the narrative of these guys [The Avengers] his loss was very important. When I created the television show, it was sort of on the understanding that this can work and we can do it with integrity, but these Avengers movies are for people to see the Avengers movies and nothing else. And it would neither make sense nor be useful to say 'Oh and by the way remember me? I died!'"

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Yeah, I'm serious

Phil is alive in the MCU. He's just not (right now) going to show up on the big screen.

Joss has his creative control over his films and has his own opinions, but he doesn't run the MCU.

he's asking b/c Whedon said in an interview last week that "As far as the Movies go, coulson is dead." He also stated that ABC was bringing coulson back whether he helped with the show or not, so he agreed to help to make sure it was handled correctly.

He also said that "As far as I'm concerned Quicksilver is dead."

Whedon is known for killing off characters, and its obvious that he doesn't agree with how marvel is treating these IP's.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but here's my impression.

Great movie, lots of fun but OMG exhausting!! The action was intense, but more than that you had to pay attention to every little thing that was said, and even facial expressions told part of the story. Some little unassuming comments pointed back to previous movies, some were foreshadowing in this movie, and some pointed to future movies that we've heard about.

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Phil is alive in the MCU. He's just not (right now) going to show up on the big screen.

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Well then you could argue that he's not alive in the MCU because television isn't cinematic.

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I see where you're coming from, but the Hellicarrier's sudden appearance in AoU was explained in AoS in last nights episode. SHIELD's continued existence after The Winter Soldier is also explained in AoS. The show and movies are definitely tied together.

Mostly, I think that Joss is bitter that he has been given rule/guide book to follow for his movies in the MCU instead of being able to completely go the direction he wants with the films.

Well, it does take a lot of the impact out of your decisions. Coulsons death was what brought the Avengers together. Shield's destruction was the biggest (perhaps only?) game-changer across the first 9 films. Quicksilver's death was practically the only thing that proved there was any risk or threat to AoU.

For someone to come along later and change the decisions you made, it kind of neuters your film. Tell me you don't watch Coulson's death scene in Avengers now and feel a little weird that he's leading his own show and none of the Avengers know about it.

Interesting read for the FX geeks among us on ILM creating Ultron:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/5/8546045/avengers-age-of-ultron-visual-effects-industrial-light-and-magic-cgi

Not really. He was actually dead in Avengers, the motivation he provided was real. The fact that Fury brought him to life and none of the Avengers know he's alive is just Fury being Fury. Although I'm sure the Avengers do know he is alive. Maria Hill has worked with him on multiple occasions, so Stark certainly knows. Sif worked with him twice, so Thor probably knows. I dont see it as some big secret, more so that there just wasn't any reason for him to be in the movie.

I feel like the seed was planted for Coulson's reappearance in "Avengers." Fury does the thing with the Captain America trading cards and straight up tells Hill that he's perfectly fine with using deception in order to achieve greater goals. It might be a stretch, but not a leap to (in hindsight) think "maybe he didn't die...?"

Plus, it's comic books. Does anyone ever stay dead?

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Well, it does take a lot of the impact out of your decisions. Coulsons death was what brought the Avengers together. Shield's destruction was the biggest (perhaps only?) game-changer across the first 9 films. Quicksilver's death was practically the only thing that proved there was any risk or threat to AoU.

For someone to come along later and change the decisions you made, it kind of neuters your film. Tell me you don't watch Coulson's death scene in Avengers now and feel a little weird that he's leading his own show and none of the Avengers know about it.

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Tell me you realize that Joss and his brother Jed Whedon both had hands in creating the show, along with Maurissa Tancharoen. Fury resurrected Coulson against his wishes. This wouldn't be the first time that Fury has purposefully hidden things in the MCU either. Remember in The Winter Soldier, Natasha had a secondary mission to Cap's at the start of the movie. Then in the Avengers, SHIELD was trying to harness the power of the tesseract for multiple purposes. One being weapons, which Cap was none too happy to see. Also, remember that Coulson's Captain America card collection was mentioned not to even be on him when he died. Add that to another instance of when Fury misled the Avengers.

In fact, I would argue that Coulson's resurrection by Fury was more tragic than his death considering what happened to him and the others that also went through the same process.

I'm not necessarily arguing against bringing him back from comic book lore, or a comic perspective, or even a "does it make sense" perspective. "Nobody stays dead" is a true comic book thing, but I don't think it should necessarily be the case in the Marvel films.

For example, what if nobody dies in Infinity War pt. 1 or 2? Unless something major happens - like entire cities get demolished and millions of people actually die, Thanos will just be another would-be conqueror. All talk, but nothing to show for it. Even with 6 infinity stones.

As another example, I can't imagine how lame it would be in the Dark Knight Rises if somehow Rachel was alive, and Two Face managed to come back, because nobody truly dies.

I guess it would just suck if you were a director (even if you saw it coming) to kill off a character in an impactful way, but then for studio executives to retcon your decision later. Kind of takes the bite out of your film.

With that said... I don't really expect them to suddenly bring Quicksilver back or something like that. It's not like every major decision is being neutered by executives. But I don't necessarily won't the MCU to become a world where nobody dies or nothing major happens, because then the stakes become too low. The audience expects everyone to make it out alright, and there's a 99% chance they're right because the executives want to keep story opportunities open for future sequels, spin-offs, etc.

All that to say, I don't disagree with Coulson being alive from a lore perspective, just a creative perspective. And I could see why Whedon wouldn't be too thrilled about bringing Coulson back, but then getting involved to make sure it made sense.

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6. Has probably the greatest moment in the film, maybe the whole MCU

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Which is....?

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6. Has probably the greatest moment in the film, maybe the whole MCU

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Which is....?

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I assume he's talking about when he handed Thor his hammer

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6. Has probably the greatest moment in the film, maybe the whole MCU

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Which is....?

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I assume he's talking about when he handed Thor his hammer

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Yeah, I could go with that.

I seriously think the best moment was wasted in the trailer, when Iron Man donned the Hulk-buster suit. Imagine if that was the first time the audience had seen it? I think that would have been a really cool moment.

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I still think hulk rag-dolling loki was better.

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"Puny god."

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I seriously think the best moment was wasted in the trailer, when Iron Man donned the Hulk-buster suit. Imagine if that was the first time the audience had seen it? I think that would have been a really cool moment.

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That's a REALLY irritating trend in movie marketing these days. And not just by Marvel. Almost all the really good moments/jokes are given away in the trailers, or in the clips shown during interviews on talk shows.