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OP good question.

I'm a Spurs fan. We don't win Championships every year, but every year we are competitive.

The Aggies winning a Championship every year is not going to happen. But but not sucking is something we should all expect.

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I'll settle for one every century!

And BS, the Spurs have 5 freaking titles in the last 15 yearsnot exactly an apples to apples comparison.

The only comparison we really have out there is a team like the Chicago Cubs...

Quite simply we are paying for the great sin of not even considering one Tom Landry for the head coach opening when he applied for the vacancy created when we ran off Bear Bryant. I believe Tom was a real gem of a man that would have fit A&M like a glove. What would it matter that he was a graduate of tu?

It was easier to look good hiding in the SWC, especially after Arkansas left for the SEC and t.u. decided to take a few decades break from football contention (80's, 90's).

Moved to the Big XII when Nebraska was a dominant program in the nation, Colorado (despite recent efforts) was having a temporal span of greatness, t.u. upgraded their Mac, and K-State was hitting its high point. A few years into that the land thieves hire big game Bob and we fall to fourth tier at best in our conference. A coaching change here and there in Aggieland puts in a yo-yo like cycle.

I think we are still looking for stability, and will probably take some more lumps in the SEC West, but the SEC brand and current investments (facilities and coaching) seem promising in getting us to out pace our former colleagues in the Big 12 (OU and t.u. in particular) and potentially overtake LSU as the perennial number 2 pick in the SEC W...and therefore a shot at being in the top 4 within a 5 year period. I think we have to wait for Saban to leave before anyone expects any less of Alabama than to be national contender every year.

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ssJackie was screwed by the Ft Worth Telegram,

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Jackie was done in by the Dallas Morning News. When A&M starts winning people, sips, can't stand it. The DMN found a contract signed by Kevin Murray for a car furnished by a Former Student, from there it went from bad to worse. Jackie had done no worse than other schools, he just had to be put in his place by the sips.

I've witnessed football from the Bear to Sumlin, it seems we just can't make a good hire at a head coach, The Bear was not about to stay when he was offered a chance to go back to Bama. Then we hire Jim Meyers and Hank Folberg, they were a bust. We hire Gene Stallings and had a good run until he quit letting his coaches coach. I know a couple of men who coached for him. After he won the SWC Championship and the Cotton Bowl he thought he was the guru of college coaching. No one could tell him anything, he was always right, that led to his demise. Emory, was terrible at discipline and players went wild. Cain Hall was known as Co Cain Hall, plus the wishbone was an antiquated formation by that time and he was not going to change. Tom Wilson, what can I say with his Tech mentality, Bum Bright finally had enough and brokered the deal to bring Sherrill here, there was a condition, Bum's buddy RC was to come also. A&M wouldn't stand behind Jackie and he bailed, can't blame him. I think most of you know the story on RC, Fran and Sherman. Now we hire a drinking buddy of one of the regents. Sumlin really never had anything going on at Houston, as with Johnny, the QB that built Sumlin, he had QB's at Houston that built him also. In my life in College Station I've witnessed two coaches that were what I'd call premier coaches, Bear and Jackie. We just can't seem to hire a decent coach. We had a chance at Johnny Majors who eventually put the U of Tenn on the map, however, as a friend of mine said of one of the regents he knew, "we can't hire him, did you see those white and tan shoes he had on, and that long hair?" We need an athletic director with some GIANT GONADS, to fire and hire good coaches. Don't tell me $Bill was one, the only thing he knew to do was spend $$$$$, hell, he was on his way out when we hired him. That's a perfect example of what is wrong here, Nebraska was about to fire him and we hire him. And you ask why people tell Aggie jokes.

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Kyle field is built on an ancient Indian burial ground.

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And the field goalposts are made from the bones of the Chinese laborers that built Kyle Field.

short answer: Our BMA's are not as smart about football as they think they are.

Why do so many Ags use poor grammar? This thread makes my head hurt.

And the old Ag and others need a reality check. Ask Hunter Goodwin if Mike Sherman was a good coach.

Money can not buy greatness. 450 million here, 5 million there, pretty soon your talking about real money.

Great question. If I could point to one reason, it would be that we hire recruiters and then try to turn them into coaches. We cannot develop players. Our focus is on the numbers of stars someone assigns to a player before we even see them. So many of these kids that are highly recruited are either primadonnas or head cases. Those are hard to develop. Now we are seeing a great divide developing between the character of Aggieland and the lack of character on this team. It has always started with player development.

Our program is a mirage. It looks good but not really there.

Fans will turn into mirage soon!

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I would like to get your serious answers to this question...LOL... I know that is hard on this site.
If you have followed our football program since the 60's or even 70's.... WHY can we not get a truly competitive program built at A&M ? I mean a program that is truly relevant at a national level, for more than a 2 year stretch. We won a SWC championship under Stallings, we had a short, but really good, run under Bellard. But our only extended winning era was the mid 80's to early 90's, under Jackie and R.C. I know we have had some other decent years here and there, but why can Texas A&M not build a stronger football program???

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Went to almost every game in the early to mid 90's...never saw ta loss at Kyle in 4 years. Also beat tu 3 of 4...good time....

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Quite simply we are paying for the great sin of not even considering one Tom Landry for the head coach opening when he applied for the vacancy created when we ran off Bear Bryant. I believe Tom was a real gem of a man that would have fit A&M like a glove. What would it matter that he was a graduate of tu?

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Tell me about running off bear bryant.

Coup land sounds like a lame town.

Unfortunately in the late 50's we stood no chance for long term football prowess as a tiny, all male military school. Two platoon football was just starting and we couldn't recruit sufficient athletes.

But yeah, dissing Tommy was bad karma.

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Because we are worried about keeping traditions like corps, yell leaders, cannons, and not about winning.
We snuggle up to that blanket of traditions and inside looking out, that we settle for nice tries and good efforts. We put up with mediocrity because aggies don't hate other aggies. But sometimes the winning fanbases and programs have hate and pride themselves on winning. Not on traditions.


I love A&M, tough love, but there is some truth here.

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Honestly, I think that you are full of crap regarding the Corps, cannon and traditions, etc. You are spot on about the acceptance of mediocrity. The two are completely separate issues. We could have had a high school equivalent marching band, cheerleaders and ******bags in bow-ties like the rest of the SEC and it wouldn't have mattered in the least. A conscious decision has to be made to excel, then a plan implemented with the realization that a lot of BMAs might get their feelers hurt. It is reminiscent of when Bear Bryant came in and made changes without regard for feeling and the brother in law system. We can still have all of the things that makes A&M great, traditions, the Corps, the Yell Leaders, PMC, the cannon, saying Howdy and all of the rest of the "rich pageantry of Texas A&M" and still have a successful football program. It saddens me when people think that the two are exclusive. I find that they are also usually the ones who are "ashamed to be Aggies" when the team does poorly.

I think we too often reward coaches before they win anything and then sit back and hope they do. I like Sumlin. I think he can win here. But it blew my mind when we made him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation without winning anything first. We did the same to Fran and Sherman. We kept RC a bit long and like everyone else has said, we didn't support Jackie and he left.

Too many times A&M, as a collection of former students, staff, and upper administration, have both run in fear of the perception of others outside of the A&M sphere and public sentiment. Equally, insiders have always jockeyed and lobbied for preferred positions of influence. The previous items have always led to a weakened A&M or an A&M without a true fixed direction.

Sadly, witness the sips in terms of Dodds, that SOB was damm sure plenty powerful and picked some good direction and had the political savvy and backing to go there and damm near all sips, powerful or not, got on board.

Letting Jackie take the fall that he did was a sin that A&M will have a long hard road to recover from. The late 80's and in through the 90's is when A&M needed to have won and won big in meaningful manner. The Ag's were close, but no cigar and the mojo and character that Jackie worked hard at establishing evaporated. RC is a good man and a great representative of A&M, but his tenure wore on a little too long and the status quo group at A&M enabled the sips and OU to jet past A&M. Fran was a knee jerk reaction and again the lack of true supported direction at A&M thwarted any chance Fran might have had.

At a school like Alabama if the powers that be and some supporters would have brought in Pat Dye as coach there might have been some grumbling and gnashing of teeth, but PDQ the from the top to the bottom the Elite's and the Rank and File would have fallen in step and supported the hell out of whoever is the coach. Because at Alabama they are all about the winning, it means more to them to win and win big than it does who is what and who gets to call the president and who gets pointed out and seated next to the coach on coaches night. They are about winning and their players know that, their alumni know that, their faculty and staff know that, and damm skippy their coaches know that.

Coaching intrigues and internal power struggles cause situations like A&M has ridden for 20 years and that schools like UT and Michigan, not to mention Nebraska, now find themselves mired in. There has to be just about total and unwavering support, not for the coach, but for the winning and A&M has not had that. The only coach that started to muster that was Jackie and there were many influential Ag's and the faculty and staff resented the hell out of Jackie. A&M was not ready for the prime time of having a coach and or a program like Jackie. Is A&M ready now? I hope so.

Sumlin is a damm good coach and is a winner, great QB or not, but there are going to be some rough spots along the way. I remember talking to my old boss after Saban got beat by ULM at home. This is a guy that lends jets for recruiting and such. And there was not an ounce of quit or doubt in his mind at the time about Saban or Alabama. But what he did say was "that sheet better not happen again or he is gone, period". He and others with 6 and 7 figure voices meant that and would have carried it out. Saban knows that and coaches and prepares like that as well.

Guys, I have sat thru more football misery than you can imagine. I came when "Lump" Fold-Burg was in his first year. We went from 3 wins my fish year to 2 the next, then1 my junior yr. Then came Stallings and for a brief period of time things go better due in large to an excellent recruiting class that spring, and the Cotton Bowl win over the Bear in 68. But he couldni't recruit. One of those last years I remember checking Texas Football Mag's top 300, and we had exactly one (that is 1) that signed with us. Obviously the program dropped due to a talent shortage.

Then Bellard came, and once again the excitement and talent infusion eventually paid off in '75, with a 9-1 regular season, but a thorough drubbing by USC(west) in a bowl game. After that the team slowly went downhill, as opponents figured out the wishbone, untill Emory got angry over a lack of support by the AD and either quit or was fired. His replacement was an almost forgotten no-name Tom Wilson, who was mediocre (although he did upset tu two of his 3 years here.)

Jackie came with a lot of fanfair over his "million dollar" contract. One person above labeled Jackie's early years as "regression" from two 11-1 seasons at Pitt, but he had a lot of work to do to bring back the talent level. Then beginning in 85 Jackie produced awesome teams, finally got in trouble, and left disgraced. R C was the logical successor, always had wrecking crew level defenses, but didn't know much about offense. He never seemed a good choser for OCs , except for his mid-season promotion of KS. But it was too late, and I think you young'ans know the rest of the story.

Over arching Theories are stupid. We currently have bad coordinators. Snyder is a broken, bend don't break guy acting like his offense will out score anyone. Spav is young and has no creativity. We'll see if Sumlin is a good CEO, willing to make bold moves.

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I think we too often reward coaches before they win anything and then sit back and hope they do. I like Sumlin. I think he can win here. But it blew my mind when we made him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation without winning anything first. We did the same to Fran and Sherman. We kept RC a bit long and like everyone else has said, we didn't support Jackie and he left.

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I don't disagree at all with locking Sumlin up. Maybe we're forced to do this because every time we do have success (on the field and just as importantly, maybe more, in recruiting) our opposition at other schools and in the media speculate where that coach will bolt to. It puts us at a competitve disadvantage to not quell that kind of talk.

I agree with you about Fran in that regard but we did the same with Sherman and got 6-6 the very next year.

I agree with jturner181's post on page 1. We have been considered 2nd tier nationally on a historic basis. We're in with the Clemson, Wisconsin, Michigan st.

Secondly, we have to share in-state talent. UGA, LSU etc basically gets who they want. I think it can change with our move to the SEC...will it?

I arrived here on the faculty after Jackie had gone on to castrating bulls at Miss State, so I wasn't here when he was let go. But the discussion of the Jackie reminds me of something that was said during the fiscal crisis. Paraphrasing:

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"The problem with learning from the lessons of the Great Depression is that economists don't agree on what those lessons were"

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Coming from outside, I'm not convinced that, whether or not it was the right thing to do, keeping Sherrill would have helped. Whether or not it was bs, the NCAA was going to come down on the program. They did anyway, right?

Paths to greatness have changed over the years, as the CFB landscape has changed. Rule changes on and off the field, conference realignment etc. have had their effects. My sense is that some things that hold us back have changed, but others have remained the same. I think Texans in general and Ags in particular underestimate how the SWC was a drag on success by the time Sherrill was here. Once Texas fell back into the pack after DKR's success with the wishbone, it was eclipsed on the national level. I think the Cotton Bowl fell into its second tier status somewhere in there, due to both playing early in the day and not having two conference champs in the game.

One thing that I think has stayed the same is that the A&M tends to be on the trailing edge of innovation not only in athletics (e.g. the Bio-corridor is at least 20 years past the trend). Not sure how much the culture of traditions affects that, but I suspect that it does. There's also a culture of rejecting negative feedback completely as biased, rather than sifting through it for things that are potentially constructive.

Everybody around the A&M programs is SPOILED except the fans. BMA's want to spend money and sit in million dollar suites and aren't committed to winning. Coaches are paid too much money BEFORE they achieve anything. Players know that they can perform any way they want to and the support will be there for them no matter what they do. Millions are spent on facilities yet it doesn't make a difference in how the team plays. We do not promote a system of excellence. Some teams falter some in lean yeans but they always bounce back. We do not. We reward under performce.

I have been following Aggie football for over 60 years. We have never had good coaches and good players at the same time. When we had good players the coaches did not know what to do with them.

Many old Ags are indicating from this excellent thread that Coach Sherrill was the best. He selected his players, knew how to coach and build a Program. Even win a National Championship.

He played by the implied rules that everybody else used.

Even today, Cam Newton athletes are developed and hand picked. Just look how Bo Wallace arrived at Ole Miss. Many other examples.

He out "Texased" Texas in recruiting.

BUT A&M abandoned this type coach in favor of those that "got A&M" or were controlled, or good networkers or had Texas roots, etc...

It must start with someone like Coach Sherrill.

Cheerleaders

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Aggies are too enamored of their own crap. We believe our *h*t doesn't stink. Our preoccupation with our history and traditions caused us to be OK with "we're not very good but at least we're not teasips." Instead of making our success happen - we assumed it would come because we deserved it.

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The pervasiveness of BAS clearly shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

I think it's the opposite. We never win it all because we never think we will win it all. SOMETHING will take it from us, usually our own failure to take care of business with some team we're supposed to beat.

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Over arching Theories are stupid. We currently have bad coordinators. Snyder is a broken, bend don't break guy acting like his offense will out score anyone. Spav is young and has no creativity. We'll see if Sumlin is a good CEO, willing to make bold moves.

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This. Thank you.

This thread is the biggest collection of over-thought, self-referential, ponderous and officious navel-gazing, chin-pulling and arm-chair Atlhletic Directing ever to hit TexAgs.

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Because we are worried about keeping traditions like corps, yell leaders, cannons, and not about winning.
We snuggle up to that blanket of traditions and inside looking out, that we settle for nice tries and good efforts. We put up with mediocrity because aggies don't hate other aggies. But sometimes the winning fanbases and programs have hate and pride themselves on winning. Not on traditions.


I love A&M, tough love, but there is some truth here.

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You love A&M so much you are willing chuck any of its traditions and to hate other Aggies....because football!

Does that about sum it up?

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I think we too often reward coaches before they win anything and then sit back and hope they do. I like Sumlin. I think he can win here. But it blew my mind when we made him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation without winning anything first. We did the same to Fran and Sherman. We kept RC a bit long and like everyone else has said, we didn't support Jackie and he left.

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Maybe....the problem is that NO COACH IN THE COUNTRY would want to finish his career at A&M right now. Two years in - Sumlin could have taken any number of hot jobs. And $2M wasn't enough to keep him here. So we didn't want to risk losing all the momentum that was built in his first two years.

A&M had no leverage. The job wasn't desirable enough on its own to keep Sumlin. So we tied him up with a big contract.

Fran wasn't that good nor promising. We wasted a lot of money on him. Sherman was a better coach but still didn't deserve a big extension.

Maybe in the future - if we are regular top 10, and we are a destination job, things will be different.

Its about ponying up and getting the best coaches. Look at the track program. He had a track record of winning championshios

I NEVER understood why we did not go after Jack Pardee in the late 80s intead of just slotting RC as a permanent solution. Pardee literally won at every level. He turned a UH program that was DOA into a legit top 15 team (many will say they had no defense - but they DID when he was there). He won in the NFL with 2 different teams. Pardee loved A&M. I remember he gave us a gig em on the field while he was coaching UH in 1987.

Had we gone that direction I am confident we wouldn't have had the OK but big game losing teams we had for years under RC. RC never beat a legit top 20 team on the road (I know, he beat an overrated Baylor squad and a CU squad that finished 4-7, but not legit). He never won a Cotton Bowl or anything but a tier 2-tier 3 bowl.

aeon-ag...That's a great read. Very insightful.
Thanks for the post.

There several problems I have noticed in my 57 years of following Texas Aggie Football.

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OK..Here is a serious answer,IMO we have not been willing, or maybe able to upgrade stadium and pay coaches enough until recently.

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This is one of the biggest. RC begged and begged for better facilities and more pay for his staff. RC lost someone every year. Our winningest coach did miracles with poor facilities and constant s turnover.

#2 Big Cigars cannot leave well enough alone. The Great Shelby Metcalf said it best, "The only happy Aggie is an unhappy Aggie." We have been our own worst enemy. We put up with bonafide losers like fraud franCHOKEcione and we run off winners in Bellard, Sherrill, and Slocum.

I really believe had Slocum been given the pay and the facilities we would have won a MTN under him. He was already adapting and changing his offense under Sumlin and had a top class of recruits committed. The Big Cigars ran him off for the biggest fraud ever on the gridiron. franCHOKEcione set our problem back to 1961. He made almost all of the Texas high school coaches hate him and turned his back on Louisiana.