Well, if you're going to get caught up into things like that, then I would think the unbelievable complexity and number of variables which had to happen exactly right for the final Cap v Iron Man confrontation to occur would be a bigger hangup. You'd think they would have had the main villain remark on "how this is all happening better than I could have imagined" or something.

That said, it didn't bother me watching it live and I thought it was a great movie.

Like I said, it's not a major flaw, just the only minor one from my perspective that required any effort to overlook.

Maybe it was the private drive to a stark and/or shield facility. And considering that hydra was in possession of the tape, someone from hydra extracted it immediately after, otherwise the public and Tony would've known it wasn't an accident

I get that Bucky was brainwashed most of the last several decades and that Cap doesn't blame him because he knows this and Cap was on ice for the last several decades, but I totally get Tony's need for vengeance against Bucky. It's not like Bucky has done ANYTHING to redeem himself after all the things he's done. Bucky basically feels kind of guilty about it but not that much because he was brainwashed. Seems like he would at least try and commit suicide a few times but I think if I were him I'd just go limp and take whatever Iron Man wanted to give.

Saw CW again this afternoon with my daughter. I enjoyed it more on this second viewing. This was a fun movie with characters that I have grown to love. Seeing Cap and Iron Man trading blows was like rooting for Bucky Richardson vs Johnny Manziel - who are you going to pull for when you like both characters so much?

There is a lot of politics in this movie, much like in TWS. SoS Ross is clearly up to no good regarding the Avengers.

I loved that despite all these big sequences they managed to keep it on a personal level with Cap willing to,stand up for Bucky no matter the consequences. I also like the FedEx letter at the end where Cap acknowledges Tony's motivations and offers his help if ever needed.

Spider-Man was annoying to me the first time but today I felt better about the character's inclusion. I loved his dialogue. I am looking forward to his solo movie and expect Tony Stark to make an appearance, hopefully Cap too.

Black Panther was awesome. Cannot wait to see his solo movie.

What I am most curious is how are they going to wrap this schism up going forward? When the next Avengers movie comes around, presumably Hawkeye is still going to be pissed at Stark. Then of course, Stark is still stinging over Bucky killing his parents and Cap kicking his ass, so that will need to be resolved as well.

Did they ever reference Zemo's dad in the first Captain America film? In the comics he worked with Red Skull on several projects and even fought the Howling Commandos.

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What I am most curious is how are they going to wrap this schism up going forward? When the next Avengers movie comes around, presumably Hawkeye is still going to be pissed at Stark. Then of course, Stark is still stinging over Bucky killing his parents and Cap kicking his ass, so that will need to be resolved as well.

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It won't be resolved for some time.

I don't think they'll be in Dr Strange.
GotG2 will be off world.
SpiderMan is Sony's. I don't think they'll let them have all the characters.
Thor3 will be off world.

Black Panther just happens to be housing Winter Soldier. Cap & his crew are on the run and likely have a home in Wakanda. I think they'll move that plot along, but probably not resolve it completely.

I think the first act of Infinity War 1 will be about the resolution.

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I get that Bucky was brainwashed most of the last several decades and that Cap doesn't blame him because he knows this and Cap was on ice for the last several decades, but I totally get Tony's need for vengeance against Bucky. It's not like Bucky has done ANYTHING to redeem himself after all the things he's done. Bucky basically feels kind of guilty about it but not that much because he was brainwashed. Seems like he would at least try and commit suicide a few times but I think if I were him I'd just go limp and take whatever Iron Man wanted to give.

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This sounds like a super depressing movie

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He should redeem himself by trying to commit suicide?

I have to admit the video part really annoyed me.
It was definitely weak and felt..lazy.



Especially since Zemo even admitted what he was doing. Would have made more sense for them to capture him then start fighting, him slip away and Black Panther nab him.

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I get that Bucky was brainwashed most of the last several decades and that Cap doesn't blame him because he knows this and Cap was on ice for the last several decades, but I totally get Tony's need for vengeance against Bucky. It's not like Bucky has done ANYTHING to redeem himself after all the things he's done. Bucky basically feels kind of guilty about it but not that much because he was brainwashed. Seems like he would at least try and commit suicide a few times but I think if I were him I'd just go limp and take whatever Iron Man wanted to give.

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This sounds like a super depressing movie

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He should redeem himself by trying to commit suicide?

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It would at least show that he was seriously tormented by what they made him do. Yes, it would be better if he could overcome his brainwashing and become a hero again to redeem himself, but apparently he can't or isn't motivated to.

In the movie version he's in what looks like the special forces before there were special forces (in the comic version he's CA's sidekick), but then he was turned into the Soviet's assassin and turned against his own people. Tell me anyone in the Special Forces that would be ok with that even if it wasn't actually their fault. They're a tool that can be activated any time by the enemy. If he can't stop it, suicide must have entered his mind. Sorry if it's depressing but it's the situation they set up. I'm sure he feels terrible about what he did (intentionally or not) to Tony's parents. It doesn't seem in character for him to defend himself for that.

I think Infinity War Part 1 won't feature the full roster, but have a skeleton crew and some new recruits trying to deal with a mounting threat to the universe. I also think it likely that this film takes place like a GoT episode, jumping around between related but different stories, maybe never even all connecting. Everyone will get a good thrashing and come together with the originals for Part 2.

He obviously thought no one would find the trigger recipe. I mean it was like 13 words long.

He was living in hiding...we have no idea what he dealt with during that time and once Zemo gets captured, he put himself back under stasis.

I think he feels pretty guilty

A few notes about Zemo:

1) he mentions that all of Hydra's secrets were released by Black Widow, though many were encrypted.
2) he says that he has experience with that kind of thing, and patience.
3) for the last year he's been studying and following the Avengers (and, presumably decrypting Hydra files)
4) if Bucky's handler had told him what he needed to know, he wouldn't have framed and released Bucky to get the info
5) it's Bucky who assumes that Zemo wanted the December 16, 1991 report because the multiple Winter Soldiers
6) when Zemo arrives in Siberia, he calls the hotel to ensure that he is followed
7) the first thing Zemo does in the hydra base is look through some dusty old archives


My assumption is that one of those Hydra secrets that Zemo decoded was proof of Howard Stark's assassination. He went to Siberia to obtain it and use it to divide the Avengers at the right time.

Because Zemo had to go through Bucky, he got the Avengers on his trail, but the UN bombing helped ensure the Accords would divide the team further, frame Bucky, get Cap to act against the authorities, etc.

But most importantly, he most likely knew through those released Hydra files that he'd find proof that could divide the Avengers even further. So perhaps it's not "Zemo got lucky that a camera was there and they had the footage," but because there was a camera there and they had the footage, Zemo knew how to find it.

Maybe

Isn't the big freeze akin to suicide?

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Why the F would there be a camera located where Bucky killed Stark's parents? Stupid.

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This, it would have been better for it to be in a file and for Zemo to revealed to to Iron Man. The video was ridiculous. It was the 1990's.

During the movie I was actually sure Zemo was going to use Stark's memory hologram tech to recreate the assassination using Bucky's memories.

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During the movie I was actually sure Zemo was going to use Stark's memory hologram tech to recreate the assassination using Bucky's memories.

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That would have been good.

My main beef with this movie, and it is a stupid one, is how every single shot the SWAT guys spray at Cap or Bucky hits the shield or arm. And then Bucky holds up his hand and every single shot hits his hand. There is no way a guy going full auto with an AUG is going to hit a spread the size of a hand.

I know it is a super hero movie but it is a bit eye rolling when they block every single shot that comes their way.

I took it more that Bucky was actively deflecting the bullets with his arm, rather than the SWAT shooting his arm only.

But I agree that it still fill a bit out of place, as it would need faster than a speeding bullet quickness that I didn't feel fit Bucky or his arm.

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I took it more that Bucky was actively deflecting the bullets with his arm, rather than the SWAT shooting his arm only.

But I agree that it still fill a bit out of place, as it would need faster than a speeding bullet quickness that I didn't feel fit Bucky or his arm.

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At one point in the hallway he was just marching forward with his hand out not moving it and it was deflecting all the bullets. Maybe he has a super magnet in there or something and that is what was reacting to black panther's ring.

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I took it more that Bucky was actively deflecting the bullets with his arm, rather than the SWAT shooting his arm only.

But I agree that it still fill a bit out of place, as it would need faster than a speeding bullet quickness that I didn't feel fit Bucky or his arm.

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At one point in the hallway he was just marching forward with his hand out not moving it and it was deflecting all the bullets. Maybe he has a super magnet in there or something and that is what was reacting to black panther's ring.

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I'd buy that.

I kinda assumed he's so well trained as to know pretty precisely where your shot will go. Not a great explanation but he is probably the world's best assassin.

I assumed the reaction between Bucks arm and panthers ring was a result of both being made of vibranium? They basically were repelling each other ? But if that were the case wouldn't the shield also repel from his arm ?

That was confusing to me. I need to watch that scene again .

I don't know if we have ever been told what his arm was made of.

In my theater there was an audible gasp when Rhodie hit the ground. How about in everyone else's theater?

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I don't know if we have ever been told what his arm was made of.

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I don't think there is any canon for his arm's material. I guess that means the movies can take some artistic license. I think they have been vague on purpose up until that part with Panther that seemed important .

Side note : Bucky is widely considered as the assassin that killed Kennedy so no wonder Magneto couldn't stop him .. Too bad we can't get those franchises on the same screen as that would have been an epic scene with Fassbender.

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In my theater there was an audible gasp when Rhodie hit the ground. How about in everyone else's theater?

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Yep.

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Speaking of Rhodie's crash...what sort of force absorbing material does Tony put in those suits? He should have been liquefied.

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This is one of the few things that always pop up and I have to dismiss while watching the Marvel movies...I know his suit is made of iron, but there's an actual regular human inside of it, and from what I can tell there's nothing really between Tony and his suit.

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Speaking of Rhodie's crash...what sort of force absorbing material does Tony put in those suits? He should have been liquefied.

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This is one of the few things that always pop up and I have to dismiss while watching the Marvel movies...I know his suit is made of iron, but there's an actual regular human inside of it, and from what I can tell there's nothing really between Tony and his suit.

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Has to be some sort of inertial dampening of course Rhodies suit was dead on impact so he probably should be too.

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In my theater there was an audible gasp when Rhodie hit the ground. How about in everyone else's theater?

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Yep.

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Same. There was no music or score playing at that moment, no other sounds on the screen. Just the sound of him hitting the ground. People gasped because they weren't expecting it.

I thought he was dead.