No, I really do not care about the virus because of the data available. I don't know how much more clear I can be in that. Go back and read everything I've posted on multiple threads on this board, politics, and the Tine board. I've never been concerned with the virus.Zobel said:
lolol I just figured it out. I know why you won't answer. If you say you're more concerned about the virus, it is illogical to not get the vaccine. If you say you're more concerned about the virus, that makes the other person right.
It's ok. You don't have to answer. I think this is clear enough for everyone.
Vaccine Reluctance
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Last: 9 mo ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
So you're more concerned with the vaccine?
Maybe berate was the wrong word. You seem to care a lot about people who made a different choice than you. What's the reason for that?Zobel said:
Have I berated anyone? Once? Please, if you think I have show me. I will gladly apologize.
I'm not more concerned about it, but I am concerned. I've been pretty consistent in that over this thread and others. Given my risk of complications from COVID are low, I do not feel the need to take an additional risk to minimize another minimal risk. Again, I've been consistent with that.Zobel said:
So you're more concerned with the vaccine?
I'm super interested in the science behind the vaccines. It's fascinating. I had the dubious privilege of being responsible for the covid policies and reporting for my company, which meant I had to do a lot of reading to answer employee questions etc. so I've read more than I'd like about this stuff in general. And, like you, I enjoy discussions.
I think it's good to rationalize your positions, and good discussions benefit all parties involved. So, when I see people talking I like to participate. I also like to debunk conspiracy theories with reliable information.
I think it's good to rationalize your positions, and good discussions benefit all parties involved. So, when I see people talking I like to participate. I also like to debunk conspiracy theories with reliable information.
Haha ok. Heads they win, tails you lose. The only way to win is not to play.
We can leave it there, your honor is intact.
We can leave it there, your honor is intact.
Is the information I provided a conspiracy theory that needs to be debunked?
Some of you need to learn how to use the ignore function.
My post of this was to not highlight deaths but confirm the overwhelming success of the vaccine to provide almost immunity to those who get. Leave everyone else alone. They can choose to die if they want. We have yet and are very unlikely to get a mutant strand that is worse.
I refuse to use the ignore feature because all it does is create an echo chamber. Seeing other's opinions and sides, whether I agree with it or not, is important and necessary, IMO.
With all the flip flopping and flat lies that Fauci told along with a state run media, big Pharma etc., I'm highly suspicious of the information we are being fed.ORAggieFan said:aTm2004 said:I think Plano summed it up nicely. It's way past "public health and safety" and well into the desire to further control people. That's not a dumb view because that's exactly what they're doing.ORAggieFan said:aTm2004 said:
Go back to some of my comments earlier in this thread and I state this type of crap is another reason I am not willing to get it right now. This push to vaccinate everyone speaks to ulterior motives, IMO.
What ulterior motives? The idea to go door to door is dumb, but so is your view.
But why not get vaccinated because of that sole reason? You're so mad they have certain messaging you're not going to do what's best for you? That makes no sense.
I don't have a problem with people going door to door offering / pushing this vaccine.
I have a huge problem with people going door to door showing / helping a person fill out a mail-in ballot.
When I went to restaurants, they used to ask smoking or non-smoking, and I chose non-smoking.
If I went to an event and they asked me if I wanted to sit with the vaccinated or unvaccinated, I would choose vaccinated.
I am not advocating or suggesting that might happen, but it's just what I think.
Some might choose smoking and non-vaccinated.......and that's OK.
I have a huge problem with people going door to door showing / helping a person fill out a mail-in ballot.
When I went to restaurants, they used to ask smoking or non-smoking, and I chose non-smoking.
If I went to an event and they asked me if I wanted to sit with the vaccinated or unvaccinated, I would choose vaccinated.
I am not advocating or suggesting that might happen, but it's just what I think.
Some might choose smoking and non-vaccinated.......and that's OK.
You really are pretty dense. Some of us 1) aren't concerned with the virus and/or 2) have already had the virus which confirmed our attitudes about the virus. As a result of 1) and/or 2), we aren't rushing out to get the vaccine especially in light of people telling us why we should. That tends to make the stance we have taken even stronger. It doesn't have to be a choice between whether we are more scared of the virus or the vaccine.
I don't remember talking about fear, and again, there's no need for name calling.
Shockingly, your post also doesn't adress the question. The answer to "are you more worried about A or B" isn't "I'm not concerned about A."
It's even ok to say, "I don't know because they both seem small and I don't have a way to judge clearly." But that wasn't the issue presented to the poster. When asked a direct question about his personal concern the other fellow did a bunch of gyrations and hand waving and managed to never actually answer, while insulting others. You seem to have learned by observation.
Shockingly, your post also doesn't adress the question. The answer to "are you more worried about A or B" isn't "I'm not concerned about A."
It's even ok to say, "I don't know because they both seem small and I don't have a way to judge clearly." But that wasn't the issue presented to the poster. When asked a direct question about his personal concern the other fellow did a bunch of gyrations and hand waving and managed to never actually answer, while insulting others. You seem to have learned by observation.
I'll answer the question.Zobel said:
I don't remember talking about fear, and again, there's no need for name calling.
Shockingly, your post also doesn't adress the question. The answer to "are you more worried about A or B" isn't "I'm not concerned about A."
It's even ok to say, "I don't know because they both seem small and I don't have a way to judge clearly." But that wasn't the issue presented to the poster. When asked a direct question about his personal concern the other fellow did a bunch of gyrations and hand waving and managed to never actually answer, while insulting others. You seem to have learned by observation.
While not "worried" about either, I judge the vaccine a greater risk to me than the virus.
I make this determination off of three facts: (1) I have already had the virus and it was like having mild allergies, (2) I now have antibodies against the virus, and (3) the long-term risk associated with the vaccine is likely infinitesimally small but still unknown.
So it is a known risk that I know am further bolstered against versus an unknown future risk.
Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I agree with your post.
I'm not sure your question is genuine. But I can't give a thoughtful answer to your question as presented. I haven't delved into any safety concerns with the vaccine because I feel I simply don't need it at this point. Later? Perhaps. I'll cross that bridge at that time with the information available then.
Wait, I thought you weren't concerned about getting the virus. Yet, you're not more concerned about getting the vax, but are concerned about the vax. So, ultimately, you are either less concerned about getting the vax or equally concerned and either way you admit to having concern.....aTm2004 said:I'm not more concerned about it, but I am concerned. I've been pretty consistent in that over this thread and others. Given my risk of complications from COVID are low, I do not feel the need to take an additional risk to minimize another minimal risk. Again, I've been consistent with that.Zobel said:
So you're more concerned with the vaccine?
Great logic.
I think most people understand there are basically three groups. Vaccinated, naturally immune (recovered) and unvaccinated with no known immunity. Obviously you've got partially vaxxed mixed in as well.
All the evidence suggests we should treat the first two groups similarly.
All the evidence suggests we should treat the first two groups similarly.
Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable for people to have concerns about something, but that doesn't automatically equate to being more concerned about subject x than y. To me, both are a risk. I have 15+ months worth of data to look at and make an educated decision about COVID. I do not have that with the vaccine. Admittedly, the hard sell by the government isn't helping. Again, in a year or two after more information is known, I may get the vaccine. Until then, I'm not. I've been consistent in this stance since the vaccine was made available to everyone.ORAggieFan said:Wait, I thought you weren't concerned about getting the virus. Yet, you're not more concerned about getting the vax, but are concerned about the vax. So, ultimately, you are either less concerned about getting the vax or equally concerned and either way you admit to having concern.....aTm2004 said:I'm not more concerned about it, but I am concerned. I've been pretty consistent in that over this thread and others. Given my risk of complications from COVID are low, I do not feel the need to take an additional risk to minimize another minimal risk. Again, I've been consistent with that.Zobel said:
So you're more concerned with the vaccine?
Great logic.
I've also stated that I would look at things differently if I were in a higher risk age group or had some of the comorbidities we know put a person at higher risk.
If you're so confident the vaccine works, why do you care about my vaccine status?
I agree, but we don't and that is a big problem. Why is that?ORAggieFan said:
I think most people understand there are basically three groups. Vaccinated, naturally immune (recovered) and unvaccinated with no known immunity. Obviously you've got partially vaxxed mixed in as well.
All the evidence suggests we should treat the first two groups similarly.
If the evidence suggests that, why do you think there is a big push for the recovered individuals to get the vaccine?ORAggieFan said:
I think most people understand there are basically three groups. Vaccinated, naturally immune (recovered) and unvaccinated with no known immunity. Obviously you've got partially vaxxed mixed in as well.
All the evidence suggests we should treat the first two groups similarly.
I am curious in general about the reasons people use to decide, and there's no judgment on my end about what you do. So in that regard, yeah, it's a genuine question. I really only took issue with the way the discussion went - when asked about a comparison of concern, there was a lot of blustering and insults but no answer. There's no objectively right or wrong answer to a personal assessment of risk, for what its worth.
If its done in a productive way I think it's great for people to describe why they have or haven't gotten the shot. It helps people who haven't made a decision or haven't spent a great deal of time thinking about it reason through it for themselves.
I personally came to a different conclusion than you, primarily because I think the it's clear that the most likely outcome for any individual is to either get the virus or get vaccinated. In that case doing nothing is tantamount to choosing to get the virus. I viewed the virus as a bigger risk and much larger source of inconvenience in my life, so I took the vaccine. I personally think there is more than enough information to make a clear decision with regard to vaccine safety, and it's one of those things where the more you look at reliable sources the clearer it becomes.
Just by observation I think there's a lot of people like you - not too worried about it either way, but tending to be unsure about the vaccines. That last point can be because of general personal inclination to mistrust of doctors, because of the horrible messaging by the CDC and current administration, or because of the huge amount of garbage being posted on social media. Even if you discount that stuff severely, it can create nagging doubts. The problem is, in the meantime you're choosing to get the virus, because it most likely is a strict dichotomy.
If its done in a productive way I think it's great for people to describe why they have or haven't gotten the shot. It helps people who haven't made a decision or haven't spent a great deal of time thinking about it reason through it for themselves.
I personally came to a different conclusion than you, primarily because I think the it's clear that the most likely outcome for any individual is to either get the virus or get vaccinated. In that case doing nothing is tantamount to choosing to get the virus. I viewed the virus as a bigger risk and much larger source of inconvenience in my life, so I took the vaccine. I personally think there is more than enough information to make a clear decision with regard to vaccine safety, and it's one of those things where the more you look at reliable sources the clearer it becomes.
Just by observation I think there's a lot of people like you - not too worried about it either way, but tending to be unsure about the vaccines. That last point can be because of general personal inclination to mistrust of doctors, because of the horrible messaging by the CDC and current administration, or because of the huge amount of garbage being posted on social media. Even if you discount that stuff severely, it can create nagging doubts. The problem is, in the meantime you're choosing to get the virus, because it most likely is a strict dichotomy.
I've answered this many times on this thread and ultimately, I really don't care about an individual's status. I do care that people are making informed decisions and reading one is less likely to get a vaccine simply because an administration one doesn't support is encouraging people to get it makes me feel you are making a an ill advised decision based on emotion and not science. I also know that 99.5% of people dying right now think the same way as you do and although I don't know them, I would prefer they all continue to live.aTm2004 said:
If you're so confident the vaccine works, why do you care about my vaccine status?
Also, although I'm not worried about myself, I worry about those who are immune-compromised who do not have the same benefits of the vaccine effectiveness as the rest of us.
Finally, I fear our government will overreach yet again either based on variants or simply because of positive numbers of cases and I in no way want to extend the government mandates we've lived with. Sure, I lived my life as if they weren't there as much as possible, but it affects us as a society greatly. As of now my kids will still probably have to mask up for school starting next month and anything that we as a society can do to get rid of these atrocious rules I'm all for, especially when it benefits all of us in many ways.
Maybe you should move to an area where masks aren't required in schools. People getting vaccinated won't remove those ridiculous masks if you live in a liberal hellhole. We didn't have masks in our school at all last school year, I can't believe people are still doing this.
Only I'm not. I've already had COVID. If I wouldn't have lost my sense of smell for a few days, I would've been oblivious to the fact I had it. Yet people want to ignore that fact and attempt to convince people in my situation that we still need the vaccine.Zobel said:
The problem is, in the meantime you're choosing to get the virus, because it most likely is a strict dichotomy.
Then it doesn't apply to you, clearly.
It's like you ignored everything else I've posted.ORAggieFan said:I've answered this many times on this thread and ultimately, I really don't care about an individual's status. I do care that people are making informed decisions and reading one is less likely to get a vaccine simply because an administration one doesn't support is encouraging people to get it makes me feel you are making a an ill advised decision based on emotion and not science. I also know that 99.5% of people dying right now think the same way as you do and although I don't know them, I would prefer they all continue to live.aTm2004 said:
If you're so confident the vaccine works, why do you care about my vaccine status?
Also, although I'm not worried about myself, I worry about those who are immune-compromised who do not have the same benefits of the vaccine effectiveness as the rest of us.
Finally, I fear our government will overreach yet again either based on variants or simply because of positive numbers of cases and I in no way want to extend the government mandates we've lived with. Sure, I lived my life as if they weren't there as much as possible, but it affects us as a society greatly. As of now my kids will still probably have to mask up for school starting next month and anything that we as a society can do to get rid of these atrocious rules I'm all for, especially when it benefits all of us in many ways.
As far as an administration I do not support...God's honest truth...I'd feel the same if the previous administration was still in the WH.
Exactly. 2 of my 3 kids went to a full year of school (August - May) without a mask. In all honesty, your attention needs to be switched from caring about people getting vaccinated to the teacher's unions and their desire to use your kids as political pawns to get more money.Jbob04 said:
Maybe you should move to an area where masks aren't required in schools. People getting vaccinated won't remove those ridiculous masks if you live in a liberal hellhole. We didn't have masks in our school at all last school year, I can't believe people are still doing this.
Oh, that's got plenty of my attention.aTm2004 said:Exactly. 2 of my 3 kids went to a full year of school (August - May) without a mask. In all honesty, your attention needs to be switched from caring about people getting vaccinated to the teacher's unions and their desire to use your kids as political pawns to get more money.Jbob04 said:
Maybe you should move to an area where masks aren't required in schools. People getting vaccinated won't remove those ridiculous masks if you live in a liberal hellhole. We didn't have masks in our school at all last school year, I can't believe people are still doing this.
Bump for updated thoughts here
Appears it wasn't misinformation but, rather, important information.74OA said:
Facts and reason are facing enough challenges from domestic anti-vax nuts without a deliberate campaign by Russia and China to further sow distrust in vaccine safety and effectiveness.
Misinformation
EDIT: 1. The "anti-vax nuts" I'm referring to are the long-standing groups opposed to all vaccines and which have also mobilized against Covid vaccination. 2. The article is from Reuters, not MSN, and does not advocate, or even mention, inoculating those who already have natural immunity.
Natural immunity ftw
in fact you could say he is following the current admins advice prior to taking office. If that flip flop wasn't 100% politically driven, I don't know what was. Most people are making informed decisions based on their own cognitive reading abilities - and whatever decision they make is what they think is best for them. On both sides of the spectrumaTm2004 said:It's like you ignored everything else I've posted.ORAggieFan said:I've answered this many times on this thread and ultimately, I really don't care about an individual's status. I do care that people are making informed decisions and reading one is less likely to get a vaccine simply because an administration one doesn't support is encouraging people to get it makes me feel you are making a an ill advised decision based on emotion and not science. I also know that 99.5% of people dying right now think the same way as you do and although I don't know them, I would prefer they all continue to live.aTm2004 said:
If you're so confident the vaccine works, why do you care about my vaccine status?
Also, although I'm not worried about myself, I worry about those who are immune-compromised who do not have the same benefits of the vaccine effectiveness as the rest of us.
Finally, I fear our government will overreach yet again either based on variants or simply because of positive numbers of cases and I in no way want to extend the government mandates we've lived with. Sure, I lived my life as if they weren't there as much as possible, but it affects us as a society greatly. As of now my kids will still probably have to mask up for school starting next month and anything that we as a society can do to get rid of these atrocious rules I'm all for, especially when it benefits all of us in many ways.
As far as an administration I do not support...God's honest truth...I'd feel the same if the previous administration was still in the WH.
What a bump. Rereading this thread with 20/20 hindsight really is fun.
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