bene gesserit planned for her to have a girl with Leto so the girl could end up marrying Feyd Rautha as part of their kwisatz haderach plancr0wbar said:
Saw D2 over the weekend - Non book reader here.
Questions:
- Gurney was spice harvesting for....the Harkonnens? Or someone else? I thought he died in the D1 battle.
- Jessica (Ferguson) was a Harkonnen - how did she end of with Leto Artriedies? Felt like I briefly glossed over those two bits of information
Awesome movie. I'm usually not a double theater watcher, but trying to drag my GF to see this in IMAX this weekend
*** DUNE: PART TWO *** (Spoilers)
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Jessica also didn't know she was a Harkonnen (until maybe when she took the Water of Life, but not sure). She was raised by the BG from birth.
So I take it the BG didn't worry about incest at all? (Jessica's daughter marrying her second cousin?)
I was also curious, was the Baron fully aware and onboard with their crossbreeding and thus allowed them to take the baby?
I was also curious, was the Baron fully aware and onboard with their crossbreeding and thus allowed them to take the baby?
IIRC, the Baron also wasn't aware of their relationship in the book. He had a thing for using and tossing children away, I think that was implied of how Jessica was born.
He's much grosser in the book.
He's much grosser in the book.
He definitely was. I'm surprised he had so many kids. Wasn't he always raping young men? ( Use "men" loosely. Pretty sure his tastes were even younger)
I think the implication was that the BG breeding program was so advanced that those sort of genetic concerns were mitigated or overcome in some way, or maybe just weren't an issue.Brian Earl Spilner said:
So I take it the BG didn't worry about incest at all? (Jessica's daughter marrying her second cousin?)
I was also curious, was the Baron fully aware and onboard with their crossbreeding and thus allowed them to take the baby?
Baron probably wasn't aware, kind of like how movie Feyd-Rautha likely wasn't aware that he apparently conceived a child with Margot Fenring. From the wiki, Jessica's mother was also a BG.
I think Michael Keaton (1989) Batman vs Christian Bail Dark Knight Batman (2005) gives me the same feeling.Ornithopter said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
Loved the movie, thought Chalamet killed it, but felt like the final battle could've been way longer, and felt like the movie needed to breathe a bit more at times.
I heard there was a major change from the book near the end, what was it?
Also, curious about the Lynch version, is it worth watching?
The Lynch version is very 80s sci fi and very David Lynch.
I'm struggling to think of a remake that is such a stark difference between the two versions.
I liked them all when I first saw them.
No one else was bothered by Christopher Walken casting?
I agree. It's one area that to simple and convenient for me as well.
evan_aggie said:
No one else was bothered by Christopher Walken casting?
I don't think anyone is particularly impressed with it.
Walken was weak but not a deal-breaker on the movie since he had little screen time.
I had more trouble wrapping my mind around there being a Skaarsgard in this movie... and it's not
But this is a Skaarsgard:
But not the Skaarsgard that is in the film.
I had more trouble wrapping my mind around there being a Skaarsgard in this movie... and it's not
But this is a Skaarsgard:
But not the Skaarsgard that is in the film.
He was just still Christopher Walken playing the emperor. Everyone else I completely saw them as their character.
To me, for the movie, the point of Walken was to be somewhat of a weak, ineffectual old man. In order to not only show him as someone who could be manipulated by the Bene Gesserit, but in contrast to also show Irulan as the true brains, since it's her character who is going to be in Part Three.
Everyone's out of town again so I'm going to see it at the big imax at Bullock again tomorrow evening. Second viewing there and 4th overall. Been a few weeks and I'm curious what I see differently after some time and lots of discussion here.
TCTTS said:
To me, for the movie, the point of Walken was to be somewhat of a weak, ineffectual old man. In order to not only show him as someone who could be manipulated by the Bene Gesserit, but in contrast to also show Irulan as the true brains, since it's her character who is going to be in Part Three.
I never read the book, but my neighbor is a bigger nerd than me and said when the last scene takes place in the book, the emperor's character is at the the peak of his ruling strength and power. The movie definitely gave the opposite impression where he is a pathetic old man that can easily be challenged.
Yeah, Tywin Lannister was in all likelihood modeled in part after the Emperor. Making him an impotent old man was a weird choice. But, I suppose, it was needed to make Irulan the focus.
Hated the Walken casting. Really weird choice.
I didn't have a problem with Walken. The emperor was essentially a secondary character in the book as well and I dont think there was really all that much divergence from the book emperor and the movie version.
With as little screen time as he had it would have made almost no difference who was cast, anyway.
With as little screen time as he had it would have made almost no difference who was cast, anyway.
To me, I always pictured the Emperor Shaddam IV looking like Alexander Siddig / Siddig El Fadil (Prince Doran from GoT)
Sociopath reviews DUNE 2 https://t.co/lanKWp2jd3
— devincf (@devincf) March 19, 2024
This Vagrant of Rhodes dude and number of people replying to his post are both hilariously sad and also a little scary.
Not true to the book, but I get the goal. I don't think Walken was a good choice for the role, though. He's such a distinctive face and voice and cadence that it's impossible to see him as anything other than Christopher Walken. Every time he was on screen, I was waiting for him to break out with a monologue about cowbells or hidden watches.TCTTS said:
To me, for the movie, the point of Walken was to be somewhat of a weak, ineffectual old man. In order to not only show him as someone who could be manipulated by the Bene Gesserit, but in contrast to also show Irulan as the true brains, since it's her character who is going to be in Part Three.
"The best part is, by the end of the film, you simply stop caring about Chani. She's reduced to a mere speed bump on the crescendo of the plot and the greatness of Paul's prophetic rise and acceptance of fate. She doesn't even matter by the climax. We're watching brilliant atomic blasts, skyscraper sized sand worms, and epic duels for the future of the universe, and we're supposed to care about her pouting? She believes only in herself. How timid and miniscule. Paul has grown beyond her perspective and her small mind. So have we, by the beautiful accident of Villeneuve's cinematic aesthetics, which prove there are things far greater than ourselves out there."TCTTS said:Sociopath reviews DUNE 2 https://t.co/lanKWp2jd3
— devincf (@devincf) March 19, 2024
I tend to agree with the sentiments above.
Chani is much more passive and less interesting in the book. Denis should actually be given credit for attempting to give the character more agency and depth. Like, the story is the story. Denis didn't create these character arcs, he's just bringing them to life. That guy needs to criticize Frank Herbert lol.
Say what you want about Star Wars ripping off Dune or what have you....
but I think Dune part 2 shows pretty clearly that had the Star Wars movies come out in chronological order many people would be on the side of the Empire.
but I think Dune part 2 shows pretty clearly that had the Star Wars movies come out in chronological order many people would be on the side of the Empire.
Dune, especially Dune Messiah, has a good number of important female characters. DV just picked the most 2D one to focus on (in no small part due to casting I'm sure).
I think the issue is this mystique surrounding the idea of Dune because of how long it's been around, and many reading it when they were either young or just getting into reading. All in all, it's not as deep a story as people make it out to be. The characters are all mediocre at best and the plot is fine. It's a good sci-fi story.
However, because of the perceived weight behind the book series, some expected one of the greatest character studies and stories in history... which it just does not have. I only read half of Dune and thought it was fine, but nothing about it carried the same weight I felt when first reading something like The Lord of the Rings. I may finish it one day, if something drives me to pick it back up.
At the end of the day, the world and visuals Denis Villeneuve gave us were, in itself, greater works of art than the book, imo.
However, because of the perceived weight behind the book series, some expected one of the greatest character studies and stories in history... which it just does not have. I only read half of Dune and thought it was fine, but nothing about it carried the same weight I felt when first reading something like The Lord of the Rings. I may finish it one day, if something drives me to pick it back up.
At the end of the day, the world and visuals Denis Villeneuve gave us were, in itself, greater works of art than the book, imo.
Hot take here, but I enjoyed reading Dune way more than LOTR. LOTR is like Star wars, where everyone (outside of one notable exception in each) is simply good or bad. Dune everyone is a real person with real choices to make, and has to struggle to live with the consequences each choice brings to their people.
Oh, I definitely think there are many people who enjoyed reading Dune over LotR. It is much faster-paced story, and much more of an easy read. I just didn't feel the weight of the story like I did with LotR. I just used that as an example because both have a mystique surrounding them.Definitely Not A Cop said:
Hot take here, but I enjoyed reading Dune way more than LOTR. LOTR is like Star wars, where everyone (outside of one notable exception in each) is simply good or bad. Dune everyone is a real person with real choices to make, and has to struggle to live with the consequences each choice brings to their people.
Jessica, the Reverend Mother, Alia, Irulan, even the Shadout Mapes were more fleshed out characters in the book..... Chani is just his Fremen girlfriend.Ol Jock 99 said:
Dune, especially Dune Messiah, has a good number of important female characters. DV just picked the most 2D one to focus on (in no small part due to casting I'm sure).
Book comment I believe in Messiah, Paul uncovers a plot or 'rumors' of a plot that the BG are attempting to manipulate Paul into mating with his sister to fully cement that blood line. Other groups are also trying to ***** out Alia, her spice jugs bring boys to the yard. This also happens later with Paul's twins and trying to get them to hook up.Brian Earl Spilner said:
So I take it the BG didn't worry about incest at all? (Jessica's daughter marrying her second cousin?)
I was also curious, was the Baron fully aware and onboard with their crossbreeding and thus allowed them to take the baby?
She's certainly important. Paul's lover, mother to his kids, etc. Just pretty straight forward character wise.Quote:
Chani is just his Fremen girlfriend
YouBet said:
I didn't have a problem with Walken. The emperor was essentially a secondary character in the book as well and I dont think there was really all that much divergence from the book emperor and the movie version.
With as little screen time as he had it would have made almost no difference who was cast, anyway.
For 99% of actors, I'd agree, but you cast somebody like Walken, or Pachino, or Joe Pesci and the audience is going to project a lot onto them no matter what they do. It was distracting to me and completely pulled me out of the immersion.
Charlie Conway said:
Say what you want about Star Wars ripping off Dune or what have you....
but I think Dune part 2 shows pretty clearly that had the Star Wars movies come out in chronological order many people would be on the side of the Empire.
To your point, in DVs own words (just watched video of him explaining this), he changed Chanis character from the book to be a counter to Paul in the movie.
Because Paul is bad (whether he wants to be or not) and is headed down the path of being a tyrannical Messiah.
Holy Wars started by desert cultures tend not to end well for others.
Lisan Al Gaib pic.twitter.com/JH25lp60Bc
— 𝕕ℝ𝕖𝕫 👾 (@dRez) March 19, 2024
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