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I still dont get it. You guys rationalize how TCU has done it right, yet they are in the hated Big 12 and are an in state threat in football and baseball now. Yet you continue to keep your eye off the ball in obsessing about Texas who sucks right now in just about every sport.

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I see your point, i do. Im also probly the least redass aggie i know and im not sure why you dont get it.

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I still dont get it. You guys rationalize how TCU has done it right, yet they are in the hated Big 12 and are an in state threat in football and baseball now. Yet you continue to keep your eye off the ball in obsessing about Texas who sucks right now in just about every sport.

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I don't hate the Big 12, so there's that.

But either way, I try to make sure I separate out my emotional, rivalry feelings and my rational, more objective-ish feelings.

I'm confident TCU has or together very good coaching staffs for football and baseball. I'm confident A&M hasn't done as well.

I don't care what tu is don't until they start doing well then the hate rises quickly!

TCU has made great hires but will they be able to keep up this spending when the Big 12 implodes.

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That is an insane amount of money to pay a coach in a non-revenue sport. I know that's the way college athletics goes these days...but it doesn't make it any less insane.

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What do we pay Pat Henry?

Whatever it is, I'm perfectly fine with it, because he wins.

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still cant believe dixon fell into their lap. that guy was a pipe dream for us when turgeon left. agree though that hes in the toughest situation of all in that conference.

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No one was screaming for Dixon to come here at that time. He's a TCU alumni, that's not "falling into their lap". Buzz was the name everyone was screaming for.

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TCU has made great hires but will they be able to keep up this spending when the Big 12 implodes.

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TCU has enough alumni and corporate sponsors with deep pockets that they will take very little of a hit. If the Big 12 does implode, one of the major conferences will pick them up based on football success and the ability to travel easily to DFW alone.

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TCU has enough alumni and corporate sponsors with deep pockets that they will take very little of a hit. If the Big 12 does implode, one of the major conferences will pick them up based on football success and the ability to travel easily to DFW alone.

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I agree on the first part but not on the second. No major conference is picking them up, the same goes for anyone not named tu, OU, or KU. It is possible that OkState and Tech can try to ride with tu and OU to a new conference but TCU will end up the strongest mid-major ever. I just wonder if the money will be enough to support their spending. The money is only going to be really good for the big four (SEC, Big10, Pac12, and ACC), and TCU is not going to have a home with them. The major conferences do not care about athletic success coming from a small private school, with a limited market reach. They typically want big state schools with large alumni bases and plenty of t-shirt type fans.

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That is an insane amount of money to pay a coach in a non-revenue sport. I know that's the way college athletics goes these days...but it doesn't make it any less insane.

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What do we pay Pat Henry?

Whatever it is, I'm perfectly fine with it, because he wins.

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Totally proper attitude for a sports fan. Coaching salaries are just abstract monopoly money amounts to us fans anyways. All we care about is wins and losses. That's pretty much it. We don't care if our coach is a nice guy or a jerk. Don't care whether he cheats or not (just don't get caught!). And we don't really give a hoot what he is getting paid (unless we really like him and are scared somebody is going to poach him).

If we have a coach who ain't winning enough but we are significantly underpaying him, is there a low enough salary that can make the losing coach a 'bargain'? Nope! Is there any salary that is too high if we have a winning coach? Nope! Pay whatever it takes! Just don't ever raise ticket, concession, or parking prices, otherwise we'll complain.

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TCU has enough alumni and corporate sponsors with deep pockets that they will take very little of a hit. If the Big 12 does implode, one of the major conferences will pick them up based on football success and the ability to travel easily to DFW alone.

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I agree on the first part but not on the second. No major conference is picking them up, the same goes for anyone not named tu, OU, or KU. It is possible that OkState and Tech can try to ride with tu and OU to a new conference but TCU will end up the strongest mid-major ever. I just wonder if the money will be enough to support their spending. The money is only going to be really good for the big four (SEC, Big10, Pac12, and ACC), and TCU is not going to have a home with them. The major conferences do not care about athletic success coming from a small private school, with a limited market reach. They typically want big state schools with large alumni bases and plenty of t-shirt type fans.

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How does Vanderbilt factor into this?

That is the blueprint TCU is following financially right now if I am to understand correctly.

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How does Vanderbilt factor into this?

That is the blueprint TCU is following financially right now if I am to understand correctly

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Vanderbilt was grandfathered in during a different time (1933). I would not use them for a blueprint to get into a major conference in this day and age. Sports success matters little. The size and staying power of a school do matter.

TCU's best hope to stay in a major conference is to keep the Big 12 alive. They are not going to the SEC, Big 10, Pac 12, or ACC.

Comparing a small, private school with little following, that joined the SEC over 80 years ago to a small, private school with little following hoping to latch onto a mid major conference today is pointless.

wat? I'd say we're the exact opposite of what you posted. Most of our fans would rather lose than "cheat" and win. We make coaches rich, we pay some of the highest prices for tickets and concessions in the country. then we will hold onto a coach until he drives the program off the cliff.

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TCU has enough alumni and corporate sponsors with deep pockets that they will take very little of a hit. If the Big 12 does implode, one of the major conferences will pick them up based on football success and the ability to travel easily to DFW alone.

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I agree on the first part but not on the second. No major conference is picking them up, the same goes for anyone not named tu, OU, or KU. It is possible that OkState and Tech can try to ride with tu and OU to a new conference but TCU will end up the strongest mid-major ever. I just wonder if the money will be enough to support their spending. The money is only going to be really good for the big four (SEC, Big10, Pac12, and ACC), and TCU is not going to have a home with them. The major conferences do not care about athletic success coming from a small private school, with a limited market reach. They typically want big state schools with large alumni bases and plenty of t-shirt type fans.

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If we're moving to four 16-team super conferences, you can bet TCU will be in one of them.

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If we're moving to four 16-team super conferences, you can bet TCU will be in one of them.

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I bet not. Their athletic success matters little. On everything else, they simply are not that attractive to a major conference.

They are not a big state school, they are not a ND type of small private with a huge t-shirt following. Getting them to deliver DFW is fool's gold, as there is no real evidence of that now much less when they are not as successful academically.

I respect what they have done athletically but no major conference is taking them once the Big 12 blows up even if they go to 16 teams.

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How does Vanderbilt factor into this?

That is the blueprint TCU is following financially right now if I am to understand correctly

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Vanderbilt was grandfathered in during a different time (1933). I would not use them for a blueprint to get into a major conference in this day and age. Sports success matters little. The size and staying power of a school do matter.

TCU's best hope to stay in a major conference is to keep the Big 12 alive. They are not going to the SEC, Big 10, Pac 12, or ACC.

Comparing a small, private school with little following, that joined the SEC over 80 years ago to a small, private school with little following hoping to latch onto a mid major conference today is pointless.

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When I said financially, I meant "what we are doing with our money/endowments"...BUT seeing as we are better at football than them, I think our value sports-wise is probably higher, especially if Dixon effectively turns the basketball program around (I think we are on the edge of becoming at least decent, but I know nothing about basketball)

So, what I mean is, we've gotten our athletics funded and solid for a while, we've basically rebuilt the entire campus, and now the focus is turning to making it affordable to go to school. If you can get into Vanderbilt, they will make sure you can afford it....TCU's goal is to eventually do the same thing in regards to financial aid.

So you do not think they would be hurt, when the Big 12 goes away, even if the money is much less in whatever the highest mid-major ends up being? It sounds like they are trying to cover all the bases but I think it would still hurt.

Vandy gets SEC money too. That helps a bunch. Vandy isn't in the SEC for any real reason other than they have been there since 1933. I don't think their sports value has anything to do with it.

They do serve a purpose by giving the SEC a private school but they do not need anymore.

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If we're moving to four 16-team super conferences, you can bet TCU will be in one of them.

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I bet not. Their athletic success matters little. On everything else, they simply are not that attractive to a major conference.

They are not a big state school, they are not a ND type of small private with a huge t-shirt following. Getting them to deliver DFW is fool's gold, as there is no real evidence of that now much less when they are not as successful academically.

I respect what they have done athletically but no major conference is taking them once the Big 12 blows up even if they go to 16 teams.

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If we're moving to 64 teams in the model I suggested, give me 11 universities conferences would choose over TCU if we're already including all Pac 12, SEC, ACC, and Big Ten members along with Notre Dame. I'll give you a few:

Texas
OU
OSU
Kansas
Iowa State

That's five. Name the others...

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wat? I'd say we're the exact opposite of what you posted. Most of our fans would rather lose than "cheat" and win. We make coaches rich, we pay some of the highest prices for tickets and concessions in the country. then we will hold onto a coach until he drives the program off the cliff.

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I was being of course a bit sarcastic in my previous post.


In basketball and baseball at least, do we really have much history of making coaches 'rich'? At least when compared to what their peers are making at other schools? Billy Kennedy at least until his new contract just signed (not sure what he is now scheduled to make) was ranked 14th in the SEC (dead last) in coaching salary.

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If we're moving to 64 teams in the model I suggested, give me 11 universities conferences would choose over TCU if we're already including all Pac 12, SEC, ACC, and Big Ten members along with Notre Dame. I'll give you a few:

Texas
OU
OSU
Kansas
Iowa State

That's five. Name the others...

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Here is how it would shake out if they Big 12 fell apart:

The Pac 12 gets tu, OU, Tech, and Ok State

The Big 10 gets KU and ISU

Also, the SEC would not go to 16 unless they got two of the four major VA/NC schools in the ACC.

So the ACC would have to pick three counting ND as a pseudo-member, meaning they get WVU, Cincy, and UConn. Otherwise they probably pick up WVU and maybe one of UConn/Cincy.

The major conferences are not going to care one bit about athletic success. It will be about increasing footprint and conference fit, and a small, private school with a limited following even in a place like DFW is not going to fit anyone's bill. KSU would go before TCU.

I'd argue that UH and even a school like Memphis would be more attractive, simply because of their size and relative followings.

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If we're moving to 64 teams in the model I suggested, give me 11 universities conferences would choose over TCU if we're already including all Pac 12, SEC, ACC, and Big Ten members along with Notre Dame. I'll give you a few:

Texas
OU
OSU
Kansas
Iowa State

That's five. Name the others...

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Here is how it would shake out if they Big 12 fell apart:

The Pac 12 gets tu, OU, Tech, and Ok State

The Big 10 gets KU and ISU

Also, the SEC would not go to 16 unless they got two of the four major VA/NC schools in the ACC.

So the ACC would have to pick three counting ND as a pseudo-member, meaning they get WVU, Cincy, and UConn. Otherwise they probably pick up WVU and maybe one of UConn/Cincy.

The major conferences are not going to care one bit about athletic success. It will be about increasing footprint and conference fit, and a small, private school with a limited following even in a place like DFW is not going to fit anyone's bill. KSU would go before TCU.

I'd argue that UH and even a school like Memphis would be more attractive, simply because of their size and relative followings.

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I'm laughing/crying at this. You obviously have no clue how large of a national footprint TCU has compared to KSU, WV, Cincinnati, etc. Only 54% of the student body is from the state of Texas, and the university has large alumni bases in California, Chicago, Kansas City and up and down the east coast. To even bring up UH and Memphis is hysterical even though my parents are UH grads and I have season tickets to UH football. The university academically, is far superior than WV, KSU, and Cincinnati. I'm not arguing those other schools may be apart of conference realignment, but they will not be chosen before TCU. Football success and TV markets drive conference realignment, and TCU check those boxes better than the other schools you mentioned not named UT, OU, KU, ISU, and OSU.

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If we're moving to four 16-team super conferences, you can bet TCU will be in one of them.

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We're not moving to anything. Conferences evolve. There is no outside force working to impose a four conference, 16 team model on college athletics. If t.u., OU, Tech, and OSU go to the Pac-12 at some point in the future (which seems to be the most likely major expansion scenario left on the table), I don't see a likely soft landing spot for TCU.

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You obviously have no clue how large of a national footprint TCU has compared to KSU, WV, Cincinnati, etc.

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Yeah, I do. It is a small private school with a small alumni base. It is superficially popular in DFW and no where else. The fact that you cite out of state students as a reason for them having some sort of large footprint, shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

WVU and KSU are state schools with much higher enrollments and much large alumni bases, than TCU. If you cannot understand why that matters, then you simply do not understand realignment in this day and age.

I laugh/cry at your belief that TCU has this large alumni base that competes with even smaller state schools or has any value to a major conference other than the Big 12.

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Football success and TV markets drive conference realignment, and TCU check those boxes better than the other schools you mentioned not named UT, OU, KU, ISU, and OSU.

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Football success has absolutely nothing to do with realignment, and saying TCU delivers the DFW market is a joke. Again, you really do not understand modern day conference realignment.

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I'm not arguing those other schools may be apart of conference realignment, but they will not be chosen before TCU.

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WVU, Cincy, KSU, and even UConn absolutely would be chosen before TCU. Just as likely though that a couple of those schools end up in whatever mid-major conference TCU ends up in. I think TCU competes well with UH and Memphis in terms of being in conference expansion but even then those schools being larger with a much larger natural following give them an advantage. My guess is we do not get to a point where UH, Memphis, or TCU are in a major conference. They simply do not offer as much as the other schools that will be left.

Enrollment matters but no one would expanding their conference would turn down Notre Dame just because it only has 8,000 undergrads and 12,000 students total.

Is there a movement to get Duke out of the ACC because it's a private, graduate-focused research university?

I think a number of private schools have been invited into major conferences over the past decade, and I'm not talking about the Big 12. Even Boston College who doesn't have a particularly large or rabid athletic campus...


Maybe TCU disqualifies itself based on lack of a national brand or something but it will come down to more than enrollment and public/private status.

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Maybe TCU disqualifies itself based on lack of a national brand or something but it will come down to more than enrollment and public/private status.

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Comparing Duke and ND to TCU is apples and oranges. ND is all in a class by itself, and Duke is an ACC original. If they were in the AAC vs. the ACC and needed to find a home they would probably struggle too.

The enrollment thing matters because alumni bases can drive interest even when a school is not good in sports. The state public school thing matters because they are larger and often have a greater t-shirt following. That can help drive carriage rates and interested in conference networks. TCU being a small private school with a limited following does not help it all. Now if they could replicate their athletic success over the next 20 years and the Big 12 stays around that long maybe they could do what a ND or even Duke does on a smaller scale (create a real national following). The problem is they do not have time to do that because OU definitely wants out and as tu realizes the failure of the LHN they are going to want out too.

Athletic success is the last thing that will matter at this point in time because TCU, being a small, private school with a limited following, doesn't bring anything else at this point. Again, that is not to take away from their deserved success but that is really not a big deal when it comes to conference realignment.

So, being small and private matters except when it doesn't. Gotcha.

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So, being small and private matters except when it doesn't. Gotcha.

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Being ND (a legendary school with nearly a century of national following) or Duke (perennial basketball power and ACC original) type private school and academic powerhouse are very different than TCU, a small, private school with no where near the academic profile or following of those two, a decade of athletic success, and that has been in multiple small athletic conferences over the last decade. That is like comparing TCU to ACU. There really is no comparison. I hope you got that.

The problem with just pulling out any small, private school in major conference is that most of them have been there for a long time or have big advantages over TCU. When realignment begins again, TCU being small, private school with a limited following is absolutely going to hurt it.

I know they're not the same, I think I said as much. But that wasn't the point. And they weren't the only two schools I mentioned.

Being a smaller, private school is not a complete bar. That's more my point. I don't think its going to come down to the state schools with the highest enrollment and I don't think it ever has. I think TCU can check other boxes that seem to be considered. I don't think its a slam dunk for them, but I don't think there isn't any hope for them either.

Wherever TCU ends up, I think they'll be fine. They were building this before they were in the Big 12 and they've not slowed down even though they're in the "other" major conference. It ultimately comes down to leadership on your campus, in administrators and coaches, and they've excelled at that lately.



I also don't think we're necessarily destined to 4 super conferences and I don't think the Big 12 is necessarily destined for failure, either.

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Being a smaller, private school is not a complete bar.

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It is a pretty big one. Even BC had some things working for it that TCU doesn't have.

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Wherever TCU ends up, I think they'll be fine.

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They have done a great job but the money is not going to be there in a mid-major, which is where they end up if the Big 12 falls apart. And good coaches cost money to hire and keep, if the money has dried up, can they still keep up.

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I also don't think we're necessarily destined to 4 super conferences and I don't think the Big 12 is necessarily destined for failure, either.

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If tu and/or OU leave the big 12 it is done as a major conference.

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You obviously have no clue how large of a national footprint TCU has compared to KSU, WV, Cincinnati, etc.

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Yeah, I do. It is a small private school with a small alumni base. It is superficially popular in DFW and no where else. The fact that you cite out of state students as a reason for them having some sort of large footprint, shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

WVU and KSU are state schools with much higher enrollments and much large alumni bases, than TCU. If you cannot understand why that matters, then you simply do not understand realignment in this day and age.

I laugh/cry at your belief that TCU has this large alumni base that competes with even smaller state schools or has any value to a major conference other than the Big 12.

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Football success and TV markets drive conference realignment, and TCU check those boxes better than the other schools you mentioned not named UT, OU, KU, ISU, and OSU.

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Football success has absolutely nothing to do with realignment, and saying TCU delivers the DFW market is a joke. Again, you really do not understand modern day conference realignment.

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I'm not arguing those other schools may be apart of conference realignment, but they will not be chosen before TCU.

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WVU, Cincy, KSU, and even UConn absolutely would be chosen before TCU. Just as likely though that a couple of those schools end up in whatever mid-major conference TCU ends up in. I think TCU competes well with UH and Memphis in terms of being in conference expansion but even then those schools being larger with a much larger natural following give them an advantage. My guess is we do not get to a point where UH, Memphis, or TCU are in a major conference. They simply do not offer as much as the other schools that will be left.

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I didn't say TCU's alumni base was larger than those other schools, I said it had a larger national footprint. Most KSU and WVU alumni are based in those respective states. TCU has large alumni chapters in many large American cities. Football and TV markets have everything to do with realignment. Look at A&M and Missouri moving to the SEC. Look at Louisville moving to the ACC. Look at Utah moving to the Pac 12. Look at TCU moving to the Big 12. Those were all universities with recent football success in large TV markets that were apart of realignment. WVU and Kansas State offer zero TV markets, TCU is in Texas. If the PAC 12, ACC, or Big Ten want to get into the Texas market, the way to do it would be to invite TCU. KSU and WVU offer far, far less. Plain and simple, no conference is going to pass up on adding a team that is competing for a conference title in a P5 conference consistently in a large market.

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I didn't say TCU's alumni base was larger than those other schools, I said it had a larger national footprint. Most KSU and WVU alumni are based in those respective states. TCU has large alumni chapters in many large American cities. Football and TV markets have everything to do with realignment.

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You have no idea what you are talking about. KSU and WVU have much larger alumni bases just as spread out as TCU's. KSU almost has as many alumni living outside of Kansas as TCU has total alumni. WVU has alumni all over the country, particularly in the east coast and rust belt areas like Penn and Ohio. There are only about 80k living TCU alumni. Both KSU and WVU have more than twice that many. The idea that TCU has some national footprint because they have alumni clubs around the country is ridiculous. Most of their alumni are still located in Texas. KSU has about 75k alumni living out-of-state. Do you really understand how small TCU is in terms of enrollment and alumni compared to those two schools? And they are not even particularly big schools. They would be small by Texas standards.

TCU does not deliver DFW. OU, tu, and even Tech make much stronger argument to deliver that market to a conference more consistently.

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Football and TV markets have everything to do with realignment. Look at A&M and Missouri moving to the SEC. Look at Louisville moving to the ACC. Look at Utah moving to the Pac 12.

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Those schools are also large state universities, which played a much bigger part in their movements over their football success.

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Plain and simple, no conference is going to pass up on adding a team that is competing for a conference title in a P5 conference consistently in a large market.

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No major conference cares about whether they are competing for a conference title, and the large market doesn't matter when they can get a host of other teams that fit that bill.

The Big 10 is not taking TCU. The SEC is not taking TCU. The PAC 12 is not taking TCU. The ACC is not taking TCU. Even TCU fans know this. They want the Big 12 to survive but it likely isn't going to because they know it is back to mid-major status no matter how much athletic success they have or where they are located.

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Plain and simple, no conference is going to pass up on adding a team that is competing for a conference title in a P5 conference consistently in a large market.

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No conference?

The SEC would NEVER take TCU. They've already got the Texas market covered.
The Pac-12 would NEVER take TCU. They have let it be known that religious schools need not apply.
The Big Ten would NEVER take TCU. There are so many criteria that TCU doesn't meet for this league it's not even worth going down the list.

Could the ACC be persuaded? I don't see it, especially given the other options that would be out there.

Plain and simple, none of the big boy conferences would take TCU. Their best hope for the future is to ensure that the Big XII survives.

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I think TCU competes well with UH and Memphis in terms of being in conference expansion but even then those schools being larger with a much larger natural following give them an advantage.

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The Big 12 could have added UH and had a team in a large Texas metro area (that is less saturated with Big 12 fans, too), but they added TCU instead.

The Big 12 could have added Memphis and not another Texas school at all, but they added TCU.

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Could the ACC be persuaded? I don't see it, especially given the other options that would be out there.

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The ACC could have added South Florida, but they added Miami instead.

The ACC could have gone after several larger, northeastern schools and they took BC instead (which ultimately led to the exclusion of UConn from ACC expansion.)

And ultimately the ACC also took Syracuse, despite its existence as a private school with less than 15,000 undergrads. They added Syracuse even though Rutgers and 40,000 students were clearly looking for a move to a major conference.


A marketable major sport can take you a long ways in realignment discussions, and TCU has that in football, baseball, and are diligently working on it with both basketball teams.

And while I don't know the ins and outs of TCU's enrollment plans, they've added over 2,000 students in just the past 5 or 6 years and are now over 10,000 students on campus.

I don't think its a slam dunk for TCU but I think they would be in the discussion, particularly with the ACC whose natural move is westward.

I do agree TCU's primary interest is to make sure the Big 12 survives and improves.

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Plain and simple, no conference is going to pass up on adding a team that is competing for a conference title in a P5 conference consistently in a large market.

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No conference?

The Pac-12 would NEVER take TCU. They have let it be known that religious schools need not apply.

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I'm not sure that we are really considered a religious school

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Plain and simple, no conference is going to pass up on adding a team that is competing for a conference title in a P5 conference consistently in a large market.

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No conference?

The Pac-12 would NEVER take TCU. They have let it be known that religious schools need not apply.

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I'm not sure that we are really considered a religious school

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By the commies at Berkley? Yes, you are, believe or not. Odd that they forget that USC is really a Methodist school, but, as other have pointed out, they are already in--it's not a matter of one school being able to blackball them at this point, which it would be for TCU.