So my question for DadAG on this deal is where are the boundaries? Is there no limit to your liability? How do you draw that line?


What if the window you broke was a custom stained glass window that cost $800? Would you pay to replace it then?

Or what if it was a custom-sized triple-paned nitrogen-filled ultra-insulating window that cost $700?

What if you hit a screamer into someone's fence and it put a big dent in it and they thought you should be liable to replace the entire fence panel for $500?

How about someone who put a very expensive ornamental ceramic garden gnome in their yard and asked you to pay $1000 so they could ship it to Milan to be glued back together and repainted?


I'd be willing to bet that there is a line that you wouldn't be willing to cross, and at the end of the day your reasons for refusing to cross that line probably aren't that different from someone who would refuse to pay for a broken window.

Also, does the homeowner have any responsibility in this social contract? Should they know better than to put $1000 garden gnomes adjacent to their fence? Should they exercise common sense and not hang custom made crystal bird-feeders from their tree that's 175 yards from the tee box? Is their any responsibility to use some kind of impact resistant material on their windows?

Watch Hank Haney's 32-minute video and add another 70 yards to that (YMMV).

I've put a ball through a window and I paid for it. Just the way I was raised and the values I hold.

I also own a home on a course and have only had one small window broken in 12 years. Nobody home when it happened and nobody left a note offering to pay. It's replacement cost was less than the deductible so I paid for it myself.

Same questions to you as I posed to DadAG. Where would you draw the line? If you went searching for your ball and you found a homeowner making one of the claims I posted above, would you fork over $800 or $1000 to fix a priceless stained glass window or repair a one-of-a-kind garden gnome?

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Same questions to you as I posed to DadAG. Where would you draw the line? If you went searching for your ball and you found a homeowner making one of the claims I posted above, would you fork over $800 or $1000 to fix a priceless stained glass window or repair a one-of-a-kind garden gnome?

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Probably go $300-400 out of my pocket.

Over that I would turn it over to my personal liability coverage on my home policy. In other words I would be responsible for my actions. Tough concept for some.

I just hit it in the center of the fairway every time.

this thread blows me away...

I expect more from ags...

yes - I would pay. yes - I live on a course. and yes - anyone who hits a ball and breaks one of my windows - I'd expect him / her to pay.

values / principles / doing what's right... all of the above. I'm shocked that some of you don't think that's the right thing to do...

if you broke a window on a car.. wouldn't you pay that as well?

SO for all the non-payors:

You are driving down the street, drop your phone on the floor board, reach down to pick it up, run up the curb, and run over someone's mailbox with no damage to your vehicle. Purely an accident.

Do you keep on driving?

Contact the homeowner and settle with them?

Turn it in to your auto insurance?

Tell the to f off because they shouldn't put a mailbox near the street?

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SO for all the non-payors:

You are driving down the street, drop your phone on the floor board, reach down to pick it up, run up the curb, and run over someone's mailbox with no damage to your vehicle. Purely an accident.

Do you keep on driving?

Contact the homeowner and settle with them?

Turn it in to your auto insurance?

Tell the to f off because they shouldn't put a mailbox near the street?

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Shouldn't have been playing with your phone in the first place.

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Shouldn't have been playing with your phone in the first place.

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I agree.

Maybe some of these guys shouldn't be playing golf as well.

I'd probably pay. That said. the homeowner also has a responsibility for having their house there. It's an inherent risk and it's a two way street. If you want to have your house 200 yards down the right fairway, that's within a reasonable miss, you have to take ownership for your decision to buy a house in a slice zone. If you don't want that risk, buy a street over.

I think at a minimum, the owner's responsibility would to be cordial and not get angry. Makes it a lot easier to hand over a few hundy.

I would not expect anyone to pay for ANY golf-related damage to my property if I lived a bad hook or slice away from a golf course. Even the pros hit errant driver shots from time to time. You have to know that your house will get dinged over the years when you make that purchase. I think it's inconsiderate to buy next to a golf course and then expect someone who accidentally hosels it, leaves clubface open or has a bad swingpath to pay for any damages. If I lived on a course, I would make sure I had special windows made to withstand that kind of impact, or would just suck it up and realize I will have to replace things here and there over the years.

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Same questions to you as I posed to DadAG. Where would you draw the line? If you went searching for your ball and you found a homeowner making one of the claims I posted above, would you fork over $800 or $1000 to fix a priceless stained glass window or repair a one-of-a-kind garden gnome?

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Some homes on courses have enormous windows that might easily cost that much. If a homeowner made an outrageous claim, I'd probably offer them a fair number, which they can take or leave. I will take responsibility, but I won't be a cash cow.

I would have hoped the person who hit my window would have offered to pay, but I expect very little out of people, so was not surprised an offer was not made.

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Same questions to you as I posed to DadAG. Where would you draw the line? If you went searching for your ball and you found a homeowner making one of the claims I posted above, would you fork over $800 or $1000 to fix a priceless stained glass window or repair a one-of-a-kind garden gnome?

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Probably go $300-400 out of my pocket.

Over that I would turn it over to my personal liability coverage on my home policy. In other words I would be responsible for my actions. Tough concept for some.

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This is an honest question:

Would your insurance company pay a claim on something that was the result of a non-negligent act? I'm guessing that if you turned it over to your insurance company they wouldn't pay a dime in almost all cases because there is no legal obligation to do so.

I'm thinking in that scenario the gnome-owner gets whatever cash you pay him and not a penny more.

Full disclosure I don't know a damn thing about insurance other than they don't make money by paying claims that they don't have to.

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You guys need to watch a few Matt Kuchar instructional vids and take some notes and this would all be a non-issue. Simply hit the ball about 300 yards, dead center of the fairway. Also, make sure your hip over-rotation isn't affecting your clubhead speed. Do these things, and you'll be living in the hall of fame in no time.

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This is an honest question:

Would your insurance company pay a claim on something that was the result of a non-negligent act? I'm guessing that if you turned it over to your insurance company they wouldn't pay a dime in almost all cases because there is no legal obligation to do so.

I'm thinking in that scenario the gnome-owner gets whatever cash you pay him and not a penny more.

Full disclosure I don't know a damn thing about insurance other than they don't make money by paying claims that they don't have to.

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funny, while you were posting this, i was on the phone with my insurance carrier. i'm a golfer and i live on a golf course, so i was just curious what the deal was.

if i'm golfing and cause damage, my insurance will pay the full cost of the damage with no deductible. which further reinforces my personal position that i would either pay or otherwise be responsible for any damages resulting from my actions.

then i asked, as a homeowner, if i'd be covered for any damage and it would just be a regular claim on my homeowners. the deductible is almost certainly going to exceed the cost of any damage, which means as a homeowner, i'm likely paying for it out of pocket. i asked and they don't offer any specialized coverage for golf-related damage.

obviously this is just my carrier...could be different for others

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This is an honest question:

Would your insurance company pay a claim on something that was the result of a non-negligent act? I'm guessing that if you turned it over to your insurance company they wouldn't pay a dime in almost all cases because there is no legal obligation to do so.

I'm thinking in that scenario the gnome-owner gets whatever cash you pay him and not a penny more.

Full disclosure I don't know a damn thing about insurance other than they don't make money by paying claims that they don't have to.

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Most policies will have included:

"Damage to property of Others." We will pay, at replacement cost, up to $1,000 per "occurence" for "property damage" to property of others caused by an "insured".

This is separate from "Personal Liability" where negligence is required.

Limits could vary from policy to policy.

Some policies may still have a "Glass Breakage" endorsement that provide $100 per pane with no deductible for the property owner.

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The driver in your scenario is negligent, whereas the golfer can successfully assert an assumption of risk defense.

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Agree.

Being legally right isn't necessarily the same as being morally right. And there really are some good lawyers.

There are those in life that will leave their campsite better than when they arrived, while others prefer to say f the next guy. You can be nice to others or not if you wish.

IMO, there is something special about people who can say "I messed up, let me fix things.".

Oh crap, just realized that you're not the "DadAg" from Rivalries that went to Tech. I was getting a kick out of being preached to by someone I perceived to be a Tech grad. I laughed at the bad golf/driving a car analogy & thought "at least he's trying."

I've got a legal background, so my mind automatically applies the law to the facts of the case/scenario. I've never broken a window, but I've played with guys who have. My experience is that homeowners have been a-holes and ignorant of the law, so it's easy to not want to do more than the law requires to help them. I'd shoulder some of the burden if the homeowner was nice and reasonable. I both respect and question those that will take full responsibility when common sense says "don't buy a house on a golf course if you don't expect to incur extra costs."

A few years ago, I hit one off a roof (house was 20-25 yards from edge of fairway) & it kicked my ball in the fairway. The homeowner said something like "great shot a-hole; you hit my roof". I thanked him for the assist, hit my approach about 10-feet, and said "it's birdie time." He told me to go do something to myself, and my old man about crapped his pants. He told the guy he'd be much better off apologizing to me & not being a complete tool... which he did.

I guess my thing is that a line has to be drawn somewhere. Sure you gave the guy $200 to pay for the window, but are you going to go over to his house and put up plastic to cover it so rain doesn't get in before it's fixed? Or are you going to be the one who goes to the trouble to get someone to quote replacing the window, or take time off work to meet the glass guy at the house while he does the work?

At the end of the day, it is an accident and it can't be undone. Part of the general social contract that comes with being human is taking responsibility for your actions, but that applies to both the golfer and the homeowner. I guess I just don't believe that the homeowner is without responsibility in the situation. In my opinion, part of the responsibility that comes with being a homeowner on a golf course is being understanding that s##t happens and not being an a##hole to someone who made an honest mistake. Clearly the line has to be drawn somewhere; so what if one person draws the line at replacement cost and another person draws the line at $100?

I am a little upset that my somewhat correct spelling and grammar didn't place me higher than a tech grad.

When I broke the window, my ball also came into the fairway. It had a nice cut on it where it hit the frame.

The homeowner that came out was pleasant, explained that it had been hit before and was $200 to get fixed.

I would understand a homeowner being upset as that is a common reaction when anything gets damaged. I also realize that it's not only about the cost, but also the time that will be needed to get a repairman out to measure, wait for the glass, and then be available for a 3-4 hour window waiting for the repairman to show up.

Total hassle that the homeowner really didn't need.

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Clearly the line has to be drawn somewhere; so what if one person draws the line at replacement cost and another person draws the line at $100?

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And these are both better than telling the homeowner to f off as some have stated they would do.

Is this scenario any different than you kid hitting a baseball through the neighbor's window? Yeah the house is on the golf course, but shouldn't you be responsible for the flight and doom of your projectile?

Yes different.

Honestly, whether or not I would pay a dime would depend entirely on the attitude of the homeowner. As I'm not legally required to pay anything, it would then come down to whether or not the homeowner was decent to me. If so, I probably would offer some money. If he wasn't, I'd tell him that I'm very sorry, but you will have to fix it on your own.

Exactly. This **** ain't cut and dry.

The same golfers that occasionally break a window are the same ones paying to play the course, which in turn helps keep the course a viable business, which helps keep these houses' property values up. I'm not saying that paying a green fee gives you a free pass if you're being stupid and damage someone's property, but everyone hits a wayward shot now and then. Ask the homeowners along the old Clear Lake Golf Course since now all they have out back is weeds mown to ankle height after the course shut down. I'm sure almost all of them would rather have the errant incoming shot vs. no course, even if it wasn't all that great.

If it's that big of a deal, plant some trees, put up a net, install plexiglass, whatever, just don't try to tell me I'm obligated to pay for something that you knew was a hazard when you moved in.

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I would've told the homeowner to fk off.

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Real talk from a immature pr*ck.

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Simmer down. Most of the time, I would be cordial. Only reason I said I would tell the homeowner in your situation to fk off is because he had a bad attitude. To come up to you and straight up say that it's $200 to replace and then walk off after giving you his contact information just doesn't sit right.

The whole concept of "attitude" is a two way street. One time a guy (probably mid 50s, short, and fat) rolled over my fence to retrieve his ball. He was intercepted by my dogs. Rather than give up, he kept advancing toward his ball while swinging his wedge at my dogs heads. I'm being 100% serious with no exaggeration.

I shot out that door as fast as I could.

Me: "What the hell do you think you're doing?
Him: Getting my ball and if you're dogs bite me, I'll kill em.
Me: "I'm gonna take that wedge out of your %$#@&*& hand and %$#@& it up your %&%$#@! ass. Now get out of my yard before I throw you out."
The conversation went down hill from there.


I still think I was 100% justified in my language.

No, he did not get his ball.

Holy hell that is messed up (the trespasser not your actions).

Haven't heard back from the OP.

Wow. Too bad your dogs didn't snap that dude's balls off. There are just some azzholes out there that think this is their world and the rest of us are just living in it. Did you contact the course about the guy? That is the type of customer where if the course is a good neighbor, they make sure he's not welcome to return.

If you ran over someone's mailbox, would you pay?

It's 3,inches from the street...

I have lived on a golf course for 23 years. I would never by a house 225 yards on the right side of a fairway.

But accidents happen, I am also about a 3 handicap. You play enough golf stuff happens. I have had a number of windows broken over that time span. Like don't get mad, just walkabout wait for someone to come over and let them know price. Most have been, hey, everybody ok, what's the damage. Windows are usually 135. One guy handed me a 100 and I said were good. The rest just mail me a check no problem.

I have only had 1 guy be a jerk. And you could tell he was an absolute Di$$ in real life. He couldn't fathom the idea of paying. Made him lawyer up and filed small claims court. Sent a note to judge and I never showed. My time is worth more than that. Cost him 350 in lawyer fees.

You should pay, it is the right thing to do!

PS, I have never paid for golf balls in my life! Between looking and the pro V1's that show up in my backyard... I am thousands of dollars ahead!