bdf expansion reality tv show: latest

16,691 Views | 120 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Iowaggie
texaggie90
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AG
Watching this joke of a conference sh*t all over itself, makes me soooooo grateful that Bowtie had the Ba*ls to get us into the SEC. We may play against the toughest competition week in and week out, but damn, I feel good about it!

Love the SEC!!!!
Agsuffering@bulaw
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Recruiting and Product
What I am saying is that bringing in the sips and sooners would open the door to all the crappy B1G programs recruiting in DFW and maybe the rest of the state. Details of Hypothetical Situation:

-sips and thieves go to B1G
-BDF loses P5 status
-8 dwarves would recruit like SMU/Tulsa
-DFW/N TX athletes that currently sign with 8 dwarves would explore other options
-Signing with a B1G West team would mean games in Austin/Norman that mom could drive to

Currently Terrible B1G West teams: Perdue, Illinois, NW, Minnesota

If each of those horrible teams could add 5 TX 3* recruits a year, their level of play would increase dramatically after a few years.

Furthermore, the sips and thieves would add to the quality of the product, not diminish it. The past 3 years, the B1G west was probably the worst division in P5. Sagarin rated them: 73 in 2014, 74.5 in 2015, 74 currently.

Most years, the sips and thieves will be well above a 75 sagarin rating. Last year, the sips were low 70s and the thieves high 80s. The two together would have still elevated the division.

The likely comeback is that the SEC East has been down too. The difference is that Florida, Tennessee and Georgia are not likely to stay down.

The B1G west could go from the P5 graveyard to one of the better divisions in the P5.

Money

This one is easy. The sips and thieves would add enough value in in a renegotiated contract. The sips bring 25 million into the footprint. Even if the footprint model goes away, the sips generate enough ratings.

Conclusion
The sips and thieves make sense for the B1G business. The politics are what could (and likely will) keep it from happening.
twk
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AG
I think you're on the money. The only real questions with the Big Ten taking OU/Texas would be:

1. Would the Big Ten be willing to take a non-AAU school like OU (if the answer is no, they could go after KU as the partner, but that wouldn't be the money move).

2. Would the divisional split be palatable to enough current Big Ten members to get the requisite super majority--in a cohesive conference, you'd really be talking about unanimous consent, or at worst a lone holdout.

3. Would the Big Ten take OU/Texas without a buy-in period, and if not, would OU/Texas swallow their pride and do the buy-in, recognizing that everyone else has, and that they are getting equity in the BTN by doing so?
el_guapo
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I agree with AgSuffering. The B1G would probably love to have tu & ou. Even if ou is not AAU, I'm willing to bet they would make an exception or get their willingness to work towards it. Recruiting for tu, ou, and other western B1G would increase with TX talent. An Okie lite will be no problem. Since ou is the flagship school in OK, I would imagine that most of their legislators are sooners and when push comes to shove, ou would get its way and be able to bolt for that kind of opportunity. It would solve all of ou's problems - still play tu, still get TX talent, dramatically increase their payout on par with us. There's no way they will let Okie lite stop them with their precarious position.

A&M is in the best case scenario and right now is the time we need to build our brand while BDF suffers and loses tv$ and recruits. At some point our favorable position will change. There is too much $ at stake and lots of TX talent to go around. I figure it will happen down the road a ways while tu continues to collect LHN revenue. At some point, B1G will probably go against their "code" and pay tu/ou up to 100% and guarantee tu gets compensated for the loss of the LHN, add non-contiguous states, and a non-AAU school in ou. Too much long term revenue at stake not to.
aggiehawg
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AG
quote:
A&M is in the best case scenario and right now is the time we need to build our brand while BDF suffers and loses tv$ and recruits. At some point our favorable position will change. There is too much $ at stake and lots of TX talent to go around. I figure it will happen down the road a ways while tu continues to collect LHN revenue. At some point, B1G will probably go against their "code" and pay tu/ou up to 100% and guarantee tu gets compensated for the loss of the LHN, add non-contiguous states, and a non-AAU school in ou. Too much long term revenue at stake not to.
LOL. Bigggggg problem with that. Fox and ESPN rarely agree on what is best for both networks, because they almost never are. Fox and ESPN are temporarily aligned against the Big XII adding crap programs and the shakedown in conference revenues that are due under the existing contracts, but other than that singular instance, no.

The B1G network, the BTN, is jointly owned by Fox and the conference. LHN is owned out right by ESPN.

Second, no other conference (besides the servile Big XII) will ever disrespect their members by forgiving the buy-in requirements that other recent additions agreed to and endured just to get a cancerous horn school and a questionable Sooner school. Never get the majority required to approve an invite by the members who suffered greatly financially to gain admittance before hand. And the horns are so full of arrogance, they won't see a possible 30-40 million per year from the B1G as "enough" to compensate for the loss of the LHN.
. . .
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Link
quote:
Boren's public comments on Sept. 14 that expansion is "not a sure thing" are perceived around the league as the manifestation of his reversal on the issue. They also reinforced the notion that Boren's inability to resist commenting publicly is further damaging the league. Boren has now gone full flip-flop from his "psychologically disadvantaged" comments 18 months ago, and it has drummed up a distinct wave of anger around the league. As one Big 12 source said this weekend: "Let's talk about the strength of the league instead of talking about being at a psychological disadvantage. We're psychologically insecure. That's what we are. And for no reason."
quote:
Fittingly, it appears Boren's damaging comments to the Big 12 came in part because he has trouble in his own backyard. Oklahoma's Board of Regents is not in favor of Big 12 expansion, and it appears to be putting an increasing amount of pressure on Boren to convey that message. This could seriously gum up the league's expansion plans.
quote:
With eight of 10 votes needed to add schools, there's an increasing expectation that Oklahoma won't be voting in favor of expansion.
quote:
The next time Boren speaks, a lot of his colleagues around the Big 12 would enjoy hearing exactly what the Sooners' long-term intentions are.

There's an increasing concern that Boren could end up as a so-called double-agent, speaking for the league but working for a school that ultimately desires to speak with other leagues. There's also an increasing level of distrust around the league, especially since Oklahoma and Texas have no intention of extending their grant of right past 2025 anytime soon.
quote:
There's little momentum to add four schools. So for now, Houston and Cincinnati are still the perceived leaders behind the scenes. Both of them have what insiders are terming "neighborhood problems." Houston is in the odd position where many schools in the Big 12 don't really want to add it but are increasingly realizing they probably need to.
quote:
Around the industry, the next wave of conference realignment is expected to be tied to the expiration of the Big Ten's television contract in 2023. A cursory study of major realignment moves reveals that most are triggered in concert with major conference TV deals expiring. That's when leagues attempt to make themselves more attractive when they go to market.

The Big 12 schools are bound to each other through a Grant of Rights through 2025. While that's a long way away, the Big Ten could make a run at Texas for its next deal.

Texas has all the cards here and would be courted by any league. Institutionally, the school has shown little desire to go to the SEC. (Why join Texas A&M?) The Big Ten could be a fit, as would the ACC and Pac-12. The ACC would likely offer the smoothest transition for the Longhorn Network, as ESPN owns all of the ACC's content and the easiest solution for everyone would be to fold LHN, a partnership between ESPN and Texas, into the ACC Network.

Oklahoma has fewer options. The Big Ten would frown on its academics. The SEC would likely be intrigued by Oklahoma, but not if it has to take Oklahoma State. The Pac-12 showed a willingness to take both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State back in 2011, so that's a potential answer. (Especially if Texas politics force Texas to take Texas Tech, too.) But with the Pac-12 Network considered a financial failure so far, is that option still as alluring?
PJYoung
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AG
I was just coming in here to post that.

Pretty funny.

And anybody with half a brain knew their dreams of expansion died with the ESPN/Fox public reprimand.
musicman55
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AG
If I was one of the "have-nots" in the BDF (and I thank all the gods that I'm not), I'd be evaluating new BDF members from the standpoint of who has the best chance of strengthening the league not only now, but more importantly after the sips and sooners leave. I think if you're a decision maker for one of the have-nots, you've got to make the assumption that the chances are much better than 50% that the sips and sooners leave after 2024, if not a year or two before. The have-nots need to start planning for life after sips/sooners.

The only possible leverage the have-nots possess now is voting as a bloc on new additions, and using that leverage to gain an extended GOR concession from the sips. That may be a long shot, but it's really all they've got.

I'm so glad A&M is out of that mess.... I still have a bit of a hard time believing that we were able to catch lightening in a bottle with our move to the SEC.
Agsuffering@bulaw
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tu and ou are like the anchor stores in the mall. They cannot be replaced. There is no "life after tu and ou leave."

The only way any of the dwarves could hope to stay relevant would be to dump every sport besides football, hoops, and 97 scholarships worth of women's sports. They would have to become like Fresno or Boise and go play and win road guarantee games. In other words, purgatory with little chance of redemption.

Their only play will be to appeasement at the next round of contract negotiations, or to get the TX and OK politicians involved.
Agsuffering@bulaw
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And Hawg, sorry I did not see your post earlier. Let me know if this is a fair summation:

1. Problem since LHN is ESPN, BTN is Fox;
2. B1G members not willing to waive buy-in requirements for tu and ou; and
3. Horns not willing to ditch LHN to make 30-40 mil in B1G


First, I think ESPN would be happy to shred the LHN contract. The BTN would only be getting sip third tier games anyways. ABC/ESPN would still have dibs on the good stuff.

Second, the B1G is desperate to open up recruiting pipelines, especially the Western Conference. And tu and ou would pay for themselves. This is not Rutgers and Maryland we are talking about.

Furthermore, the B1G is currently the 1a of P5. In addition to recruiting defecits, they are located in a populous but stagnant region. If the PAC were to add tu and ou, the PAC could end up jumping the B1G in terms of quality of product and footprint in another decade or 2.

And who are we kidding? The AAU is politics. If the rest of the B1G politicked for ou to get in, ou could get in.


I tend to agree with your last point. The sips are ultimately about control. Money is just a means to that end. Their position would have to deteriorate a lot more before they pulled the trigger.

And if they were to pull the trigger, I think taking okie lite and tech to the PAC would be a much easier sell politically.
hbtheduce
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AG
Still think the idea with the most potential in the next 4 years is TU/OU (possibly taking OKst and tceh) to the AAC.
twk
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AG
quote:
tu and ou are like the anchor stores in the mall. They cannot be replaced. There is no "life after tu and ou leave."

The only way any of the dwarves could hope to stay relevant would be to dump every sport besides football, hoops, and 97 scholarships worth of women's sports. They would have to become like Fresno or Boise and go play and win road guarantee games. In other words, purgatory with little chance of redemption.

Their only play will be to appeasement at the next round of contract negotiations, or to get the TX and OK politicians involved.
Theoretically, at least, I disagree. There is one scenario where I could see the BDF limping along, missing a limb or two, and that would be if the BDF expanded to 14, now, and Texas and OU were to go to the Big Ten at the end of the GOR. They would be leaving behind a 12 team conference that, although taking a sizeable cut in TV revenue, still would probably be exponentially more attractive than any non-Power 4 conference. So long as they were included in the CFP bowl contracts, it would still be a viable league. Those schools would never compete, financially, with the schools in the SEC and the Big Ten, but they wouldn't have to.

Now, if its OU, Texas, OSU, and Tech making a break for the Pac, then there's nothing that the left behind schools could do that would result in the BDF still being a top tier league.
. . .
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quote:
T. Boone Pickens said he likes the current 10-team Big 12 configuration the way it is and would prefer adding Houston and SMU if the league grows, but that's "probably unlikely." The Oklahoma State benefactor said on our "On Second Thought" podcast that Oklahoma president David Boren has been wishy-washy about expansion and that "maybe it's time for David to retire." Some outlets reported Tuesday that the mercurial Boren is saying he's decided against expansion, but Boren clarified his stance, saying "Oklahoma has not yet taken a position on expansion." Pickens, who has given $500 million to his alma mater, said, "I've known David forever. He likes to talk. He gets a little bit confused sometimes."

Pickens said he and Cowboys coach Mike Gundy aren't talking. "I don't have any conversations with Gundy," he said. Is there a rift? "I don't know, but Mike doesn't handle people relationships very well. And he gets mad about things. I've heard he's written some notes about me that weren't very complimentary."

who?mikejones
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AG
quote:
quote:
T. Boone Pickens said he likes the current 10-team Big 12 configuration the way it is and would prefer adding Houston and SMU if the league grows, but that's "probably unlikely." The Oklahoma State benefactor said on our "On Second Thought" podcast that Oklahoma president David Boren has been wishy-washy about expansion and that "maybe it's time for David to retire." Some outlets reported Tuesday that the mercurial Boren is saying he's decided against expansion, but Boren clarified his stance, saying "Oklahoma has not yet taken a position on expansion." Pickens, who has given $500 million to his alma mater, said, "I've known David forever. He likes to talk. He gets a little bit confused sometimes."

Pickens said he and Cowboys coach Mike Gundy aren't talking. "I don't have any conversations with Gundy," he said. Is there a rift? "I don't know, but Mike doesn't handle people relationships very well. And he gets mad about things. I've heard he's written some notes about me that weren't very complimentary."




Laugh/cry
aggiehawg
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AG
quote:
Pickens said he and Cowboys coach Mike Gundy aren't talking. "I don't have any conversations with Gundy," he said. Is there a rift? "I don't know, but Mike doesn't handle people relationships very well. And he gets mad about things. I've heard he's written some notes about me that weren't very complimentary."
That's Alleva's cue. Call Saban, Meyer, Fisher, Herman and have fun. Then call Gundy. He'll go to LSU.
Agsuffering@bulaw
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Would be hysterical if Gundy is the best L$U can do! That would be choosing to lose.

quote:
There is one scenario where I could see the BDF limping along, missing a limb or two, and that would be if the BDF expanded to 14, now, and Texas and OU were to go to the Big Ten at the end of the GOR. They would be leaving behind a 12 team conference that, although taking a sizeable cut in TV revenue, still would probably be exponentially more attractive than any non-Power 4 conference. So long as they were included in the CFP bowl contracts, it would still be a viable league. Those schools would never compete, financially, with the schools in the SEC and the Big Ten, but they wouldn't have to.

I mostly disagree.

The 8 dwarves would not be able to recruit . The quality of product in the Supernova'd Dumpster Fire would diminish horribly after 2-3 recruiting classes. See SMU for an example.

The tv networks would know what was coming and negotiate accordingly.

Without the tv money, the dwarves would not be able to pay coaching salaries nor build facilities. Thus, the negative reinforcement cycle.

The CFP would treat the Supernova'd Dumpster Fire just like the rest of the gang of now 6.
Iowaggie
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AG
The B12 might have been better off trying to get 6 teams to join.
Tell the TV networks to pay them as if only 4 more teams were joining...so while paying more, at least they get two teams for free. During the in-season, they get 8 blah games instead of 5 blah games.
Tell the new 6 teams they are getting half shares (that would account for 3/4ths of the new money).
The remaining 1/4th of the new money split up 10 ways among the new teams.




At least with 6 teams, the conference would have a greater probability of 1 of them being decent during any given year, and the conference has the distinction of being the first 16 team conference.
 
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