2023 youth baseball/softball check-in

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agsalaska
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AG
This may be a longer post than normal but I think it is necessary for everyone to read, especially those just getting their boys/girls into baseball.

I had a long conversation with an orthopedic MD on Friday about baseball injuries in youth. I had the conversation because I had to take my 11 year old boy to see him. Since the season ended he had pain in his elbow that just wouldn't go away and after two weeks I had enough. Fortunately nothing is torn but he has a serious case of little league elbow. For those that don't know what that is it is inflammation/pull/tears in his growth plate where the UCL attaches.

He can do nothing for two weeks, then no throwing anything or doing anything that causes any pain at all for six weeks, and will be re-evaluated in eight weeks. The doctor, who if I said his name many on here would know who he is, told me that there is a good chance he does not play fall ball at all and if he does will be very limited. The goal is to have him fully ready to go, though probably not pitching, by March. Though I was somewhat relieved by the diagnosis when you are 11 that is only one step lower than a death sentence.

We talked a lot, and this is the point of the thread, about coaches/parents abusing arms of players and not following MLB protocol for youth pitchers. The thing is we do follow it and it still happened. And to his point it is other activities outside of baseball, like swimming for example, that we don't always take into account.

That being said, if you are a parent looking for a team, interview the coach and ask him about it. Look at gamechanger and see if they follow it. See if they allow a kid to pitch in two games in a day or throw more than 20 pitches and pitch the next day. See if they let their pitchers catch and their catchers pitch. Look for pitchers who throw a lot of pitches going in and playing in the field, especially the left side of the infield or outfield, later in the day. Ask them if they have a stretching program and how they handle the first practice after a tournament. Base your decisions on those findings, not ring counts.

And if you are a coach, follow this.

MLB youth PItching guidelines


Last, carry enough kids. We are carrying 12 next year for 12u AAA. And if parents complain about playing time send them this link, or give them my number and they can ask my son how his summer 2023 went.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
TarponChaser
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Damn dude that sucks. At least it's just the inflammation of LL elbow and not structural. Hoping for a speedy recovery. Look around your area for a therapist that does Graston technique as it can help flush out the inflammation.
PhatMack19
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We follow most of that. Only thing I don't agree with is taking 4 months off from "throwing". IMO kids pitch too much and don't throw enough. We are done until October and won't pitch again, but we will throw and long toss at least 3 or 4 times a week.

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.
agsalaska
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AG
My son is about to take four months off.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Jbob04
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AG
Our best pitchers are our best catchers. We struggle with that one on the list.
TarponChaser
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PhatMack19 said:

We follow most of that. Only thing I don't agree with is taking 4 months off from "throwing". IMO kids pitch too much and don't throw enough. We are done until October and won't pitch again, but we will throw and long toss at least 3 or 4 times a week.

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.

I agree with this completely. It's a Tom House maxim too that I'm pretty sure I've brought up here before. He says, "kids pitch too much but don't throw enough." He's an advocate of kids throwing year round but taking time off from pitching. They don't have to throw a baseball though- go throw a football, throw full-court overhand passes with a basketball, etc. All of that strengthens the muscles needed to stabilize the elbow & shoulder joints needed to throw a baseball and keep the arm healthy.

Both boys just finished their seasons and with the younger one he's moving up from 8U to 9U so there's not really a need to take a break from pitching because he never pitched. The older boy turns 13 next month but is moving up from 13U to 14U so he's going from the 54' mound to 60'6" on the big boy field.

His summer routine is generally going to be strength & conditioning camp at the HS for rising 7th & 8th graders from 9:30-11:30am (M-Th; the HS kids work from like 7-9am), extra S&C at a private facility 3x week in the evenings, pitching lessons 1x/week will focus less on throwing and more on getting explosiveness out of the legs & core, hitting lessons 1x/week, and he and his brother have about a 30 minute fielding routine plus hitting a bucket off the tee daily. The goal isn't to do monster length sessions but to do a little bit every day that's commensurate with their age level.

He'll pick back up with long-toss and mound work in early-September. So that's almost 2.5 months off.
PhatMack19
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AG
PhatMack19 said:

We are playing in Beaumont this week in the pick up player World Series. I've never seen more 12u major kids playing 12aa. My little 10u kids are hanging though. Need a win today to make it to day 5 tomorrow.

We ended up having a great week, going 5-4 and finishing 4th out of 16. We lost out in the semis on a play at the plate, where they trucked my catcher(my kid) and he dropped the ball. I got tossed for the 1st time in my life. The home plate ump didn't speak nor understand English. I was yelling at him in English, he was yelling at me in Spanish. Neither had a clue what each other was saying, but I'm sure none of it was nice. It's ridiculous they would have an ump out there that can't communicate with anyone, including his own partner.

The way it ended sucked, but the ride was amazing. These other teams were twice our size, but we never backed down once! I couldn't be more proud of the way they battled all week. Our season ended Saturday and I'm already bored. Now on to football….
TarponChaser
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PhatMack19 said:

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.

Which Wildcatters team was it you played?
PhatMack19
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AG
We've played most of them our age. No need to call anyone out, but I will say as a whole their organization throws more curveballs than any other teams we've played.
agsalaska
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PhatMack19 said:

We follow most of that. Only thing I don't agree with is taking 4 months off from "throwing". IMO kids pitch too much and don't throw enough. We are done until October and won't pitch again, but we will throw and long toss at least 3 or 4 times a week.

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.


So I brought that up with him about four months. What he told me was that it should be a break in the summer and a break in the winter. So not four consecutive but rather four total. It is also specific to the arm motion made by pitchers.

He would disagree with you if your son pitches a lot but probably agree with you if he doesn't. Pitchers need rest in the offseason. If they pitch too much they shouldn't be throwing in the off-season. If they don't pitch a lot than absolutely throw in the off season.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
TarponChaser
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PhatMack19 said:

We've played most of them our age. No need to call anyone out, but I will say as a whole their organization throws more curveballs than any other teams we've played.

Yeah, forgot the "winky face"- I don't know any families they have at the 10U level so I was more commenting on the "best team money can buy."
TarponChaser
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agsalaska said:

PhatMack19 said:

We follow most of that. Only thing I don't agree with is taking 4 months off from "throwing". IMO kids pitch too much and don't throw enough. We are done until October and won't pitch again, but we will throw and long toss at least 3 or 4 times a week.

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.


So I brought that up with him about four months. What he told me was that it should be a break in the summer and a break in the winter. So not four consecutive but rather four total. It is also specific to the arm motion made by pitchers.

He would disagree with you if your son pitches a lot but probably agree with you if he doesn't. Pitchers need rest in the offseason. If they pitch too much they shouldn't be throwing in the off-season. If they don't pitch a lot than absolutely throw in the off season.

Speaking of all that, this is directly related to something I've seen a lot of recently and is discussed in the below links about how the travel/select/showcase system of developing baseball players is failing relative to Latin American countries, specifically the Dominican Republic.

He discusses how the culture surrounding showcase/travel baseball is detrimental to development. But, they're light on solutions.

And when compared to these Latin American countries he says player development here is not nearly as good as it is in the DR. But that also goes against the whole anti-specialization and "take 4 months off per year" where their kids do nothing but baseball year-round and do tons and tons of high-intensity pitching.

Are kids burning out there? Or do they not burn out as much because they're so focused on escaping crushing poverty while Little Timmy from Kingwood has his every want and need catered to.

Are kids blowing out arms with the same regularity as here and we just don't hear about it because it's in the DR?

I know my kid has been getting all kinds of invites to showcases and things like the Team USA tryouts that we've ignored. He's also not thrown a tremendous number of innings or pitches in a season yet- he only threw 239 pitches in 20 innings this spring so while just under 20 pitches per inning is a bit high (goal is 15 or under) he had 37 strikeouts so that's 111 pitches, minimum (46% of his total).

I'm not trying to preach or say we're doing it any better but we're way more interested in developing and keeping his arm healthy than showcasing it at a young age.

https://instagr.am/p/CslvPIGvHXX

Bassmaster
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AG
Hate to hear that. We've had 3 different kids on our team have little league elbow at different points over the past few years. Our coaches don't over throw our kids. In fact, sometimes I think they are too conservative. The positive thing is that all three of those kids recovered without lingering issues. Hope for the same outcome for your son.

We are in a similar situation for the fall for my son, but for different reasons. Our first bracket game in Gulf Shores (against the team that ultimately won it all), he made a diving catch for the third out of an inning and as he was jogging off of the field, his coach saw him grimacing and asked if he was ok. He said he was. Then he sat down and got back up to tell the coach that his shoulder was hurting pretty bad. They asked if he could play and he said he wasn't sure. They pulled him from the field, but since we were roster batting, he would've been an automatic out if he didn't hit. He said he couldn't swing, but would go attempt to draw a walk. He got up there and struck out on six pitches without swinging. I didn't even know he was hurt, so I was baffled because he never watches 3 strikes without swinging. After that at bat, the coaches called me to the dugout and told me he was hurt. I started feeling around and as soon as I touched him on the clavicle, he winced and I knew what it was. We finished the game (he was on deck with the tying run on third, winning run on second and a 3-2 count to the batter ahead of him, but he ended up flying out, so my son didn't have to bat again), and then went to urgent care where the x-rays confirmed it was a broken clavicle. I've broken mine twice, it hurts like hell. He has had a lot of successes on the baseball field, but I've never been more proud of him than I was that day because he was willing to go up to the plate to make the pitcher throw strikes instead of taking the automatic out, and then tell his coach he was going to attempt to lay a bunt down if he got up to the plate again with the tying run on third. He showed a lot of heart and toughness, and I was proud as hell. He's done with baseball for 12 weeks. It's especially tough because our team is breaking up, so he's going to miss tryouts for other teams. He was playing up, and we had already decided that staying in 12u to start playing with his grade was the right move, so the news about the team wasn't as devastating, but it is just bad timing for him.
TarponChaser
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Man that sucks for your boy but major props for toughing it out. Hope he has a speedy recovery and is able to find a home in the fall.
agsalaska
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AG
Thanks for the encouragement and sorry about your son. I am sure things will work out with a new team.

I must also say that the other coach forcing your coaches had to either bat or take the out is absolutely ridiculous. That happened to us this year in a final where we were batting all 10 and had a kid get sick in the first inning. I straight up asked the coach from the other team if we could just skip him and he said of course. They are 11 year old boys. He told me after the game that when they were in 9u they had a similar circumstance happen and the other coach forced them to take the out. He swore if he was ever in that situation he would allow the other team to skip it. If our coach tried to make another team bad an injured player I would fire him on the spot. He wouldn't.

Anyway, sorry I am ranting on here the last few days.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Lonestar_Ag09
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agsalaska said:

Thanks for the encouragement and sorry about your son. I am sure things will work out with a new team.

I must also say that the other coach forcing your coaches had to either bat or take the out is absolutely ridiculous. That happened to us this year in a final where we were batting all 10 and had a kid get sick in the first inning. I straight up asked the coach from the other team if we could just skip him and he said of course. They are 11 year old boys. He told me after the game that when they were in 9u they had a similar circumstance happen and the other coach forced them to take the out. He swore if he was ever in that situation he would allow the other team to skip it. If our coach tried to make another team bad an injured player I would fire him on the spot. He wouldn't.

Anyway, sorry I am ranting on here the last few days.
this is my big takeaway also. I've always heard injury or sickness does not apply to roster batting. Did your coaches even ask? Hope little bass gets well soon though
TAM85
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TarponChaser said:

PhatMack19 said:

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.

Which Wildcatters team was it you played?
Just my observation, but if a kid is not throwing about 70% fastballs at ages 10-14, his competitive pitching career will be coming to an end in the near future.
PhatMack19
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TAM85 said:

TarponChaser said:

PhatMack19 said:

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.

Which Wildcatters team was it you played?
Just my observation, but if a kid is not throwing about 70% fastballs at ages 10-14, his competitive pitching career will be coming to an end in the near future.

Yeah, but they still have all those rings!
TarponChaser
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TAM85 said:

TarponChaser said:

PhatMack19 said:

We played a team this week that has the best kids in Houston that money can buy, and alot of those kids were 70%+ curve balls. Pretty ridiculous for 10 yr olds.

Which Wildcatters team was it you played?
Just my observation, but if a kid is not throwing about 70% fastballs at ages 10-14, his competitive pitching career will be coming to an end in the near future.

I think there's an amendment to that and that's that a kid can throw the changeup all they want. When my oldest first started pitching they learned the old "bear claw" changeup from the get-go. Now at almost 13 he's still most comfortable with that but is getting more consistent with his circle change and when he executes that pitch it's nasty. It just drops off the table and has some nice arm-side run.

And while I generally agree about the curveballs, there's been a decent amount of research that the way the 12-6 curve is taught and thrown these days is actually less stressful on the arm than throwing fastballs.
TAM85
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The change up is an outstanding pitch and if you could only have a good change or a good curve, I would choose the change up.

My comment was not really on arm care/health. I think that if your fastball at 10-14 is not good enough that you can get most kids out by just throwing fastballs, then by the time you get to HS (unless you have an unusually big velo jump) your stuff will not be good enough to compete well on the mound.
TarponChaser
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TAM85 said:

The change up is an outstanding pitch and if you could only have a good change or a good curve, I would choose the change up.

My comment was not really on arm care/health. I think that if your fastball at 10-14 is not good enough that you can get most kids out by just throwing fastballs, then by the time you get to HS (unless you have an unusually big velo jump) your stuff will not be good enough to compete well on the mound.

Throwing strikes and hitting spots goes a long way but unless you've got stupid velo for your age group good hitters will time up the fastball and get shelled, even at 10-14, if that's all you've got.
Bassmaster
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AG
I agree that it is ridiculous, but they were the 1 seed, it was a 1 run game in bracket play, and we met them in Gulf Shores last year and beat them. Given that information and for the lack of a better word the "aggressiveness" of their coaches and fans, our coaches opted not to ask because they felt they knew the answer. Here is some context-the day before, they were playing on our field immediately before our game, and they were up 15-0 in the top of the second inning and they were stealing bases. Multiple times and coaches never said a word. The other team just quit, by quit, I mean walked off of the field. That's the kind of team we're talking about here, literally made a team quit because of a lack of decency and sportsmanship. We have had players get hurt in the past, our coaches asked, and the other coaches said we had to take the out. It is ridiculous, but oh well. It wasn't obvious he had injured himself since he got up and ran off of the field. Since he was willing to go up to the plate, they made a decision that it was better to just not let them know he was hurt and take our chances that way. I didn't have a problem with that approach. Right or wrong, there was logic behind it.

He's bummed that his time on this team ended so abruptly with an injury. I'm really proud of him and our team though. A group of dads pulled these exact 11 kids together at 9u. They stayed together every spring and fall for 10u, 11u, and 12u. The same kids, same parents. No egos, no infighting, nothing. A true unicorn in select baseball. Started at AA, worked up to AAA at 10u, and then got bumped to majors the fall of 12u. We won a ton of tournaments. We were a little league all star team with kids that just competed no matter what. Since we got bumped to major, we played the Banditos LLT6, Wildcatters-Rusk, both Elite RBI teams, and ZT Elite-National. These teams had full grown men. I'm talking 5'10 180lb men. Pitchers throwing mid 70s at 12u. We didn't beat any of them. We didn't come close, but we didn't get demolished like many teams do against them. But our kids weren't scared. Every time one of those teams showed up on our schedule, our kids were excited. We can compete with a lot of major teams, but not those teams and we were all ok with that. Kids progress at different rates and we have achieved all that we could as a team, so it is time for everyone to move on. These 11 boys have become like sons to me and I'm really proud of everything they have done. It was a special group.
PhatMack19
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Tryout dates are getting earlier and earlier each year. I haven't even caught my breath from our season ending a few days ago, and teams are already having tryouts.

I was at a LL All star game last night and next season was all the talk in the stands. I used to lose sleep over this time of year. Who's leaving and who's staying? Now I don't really care. It all works itself out in the end.
TarponChaser
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PhatMack19 said:

Tryout dates are getting earlier and earlier each year. I haven't even caught my breath from our season ending a few days ago, and teams are already having tryouts.

I was at a LL All star game last night and next season was all the talk in the stands. I used to lose sleep over this time of year. Who's leaving and who's staying? Now I don't really care. It all works itself out in the end.

The older one is about 99% staying put with his current org/team. He'll do one other tryout though.

The younger one is more up in the air. A month ago we were 100% staying with his current team but there was some crazy BS drama that went down and a large part was because of the coach. Things seem to have been hashed out so we'll give it a chance but he's going to do a couple other tryouts.
Bassmaster
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AG
How do you handle tryouts when you plan to stay with your current team? Do you tell your coach?

We had a kid whose dad would take him to a couple of tryouts every season "for the experience." He would get offers, but he never left, so I think they truly did it for that reason. This dad told me about this, so I knew and some other dads knew, but he never told our coach. Fast forward to MSM last year and a Wildcatter's coach who we had played several times approached our coach to inquire about this particular kid. That created an awkward situation to say the least. In hindsight, part of me wishes I would've taken my son to one or two over the years just so he knew what to expect now that we'll be in that situation.
aggielax48
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AG
My take is never pass up a tryout. I've seen too many kids over the years scramble to find a spot after an organizational change, etc. Always have a backup or alternative plan in case you don't make the roster of your choice. Especially if your org is one of the last ones to have tryouts. My fall 10U player tried out at his brothers organization last night just in case. We have no reason to believe he would be cut from his current, but worst case was he got 15 cuts in, a few grounders and fly balls, probably threw 25 pitches.
TarponChaser
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Bassmaster said:

How do you handle tryouts when you plan to stay with your current team? Do you tell your coach?

We had a kid whose dad would take him to a couple of tryouts every season "for the experience." He would get offers, but he never left, so I think they truly did it for that reason. This dad told me about this, so I knew and some other dads knew, but he never told our coach. Fast forward to MSM last year and a Wildcatter's coach who we had played several times approached our coach to inquire about this particular kid. That created an awkward situation to say the least. In hindsight, part of me wishes I would've taken my son to one or two over the years just so he knew what to expect now that we'll be in that situation.

Kind of what aggielax48 said- I have no reason to believe either would be cut but if there are tryouts for your team then that's always a possibility, however remote, so it's foolish to not cover your bases.

In the case of the younger one, he's headed to 9U but he's also an August birthday and will be in 4th grade while most of his age class are going to 3rd grade. At some point we will have him jump a year to play with his graduating class just like his older brother has done. We were planning on skipping over 11U to go from 10U straight to 12U like his brother but why not test those waters now? Additionally, we had zero intention of even looking around before about 6 weeks ago but the last month or so of the season was some serious drama that we want no part of and has resulted in some kids leaving (some kids were coming over from Beaumont to Humble to play and they're understandably not coming back- that drive is crazy at this age) but there are concerns over whether or not we'd have a completely new team except for 3-4 kids and that's a rebuilding we don't want to be part of. It looks like that probably won't be the case now but it's worth hedging our bets.

With the older one, there's only one team/org we'd consider leaving for so we're trying out for that one but even if offered a spot there there's still a very good chance we'd remain where we are because I think this team has a chance to be pretty special. And we're with a very good, established organization that has a great HS showcase program with a lot of contacts and a history of getting kids signed.
discobrob
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We had a bad experience last season. My kid was a valuable pitcher to the team so the coach tried to get him to influence as many games as possible. He might pitch in 3 games in a weekend. Like 30 pitches in relief three times. Had to sit out the last two tournaments with a hurt elbow.

What a difference this new team made this season. Coach used to be a high school coach but is retired. Doesn't need to win tournaments. Just in it for the kids. He would hold pretty tight to 60 pitches and no one pitches in more than one game in a weekend. I was very appreciative. No elbow pain and had the chance to learn a lot!
PhatMack19
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AG
This guy is pretty great and always spot on

https://www.facebook.com/reel/803182147857369?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=0NULKw
Jbob04
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AG
Any tips on getting 10u kids hitting fastballs with velo they haven't seen before? We played a team
Last week for our district championship and they threw harder than anyone our kids have faced including in travel ball. We will face them in state next week and need to get some practice in. We have some 12u kids coming to practice this week to pitch to them.
agsalaska
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AG
Back of the box, choke up about half an inch, eliminate the front foot loading.

I would get them in the cages and put the L screen about halfway to them and throw hard. Make them do it over and over.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Jbob04
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AG
Thanks. We are going to do a few batting practices this week and will add that to our practices.
TarponChaser
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Jbob04 said:

Any tips on getting 10u kids hitting fastballs with velo they haven't seen before? We played a team
Last week for our district championship and they threw harder than anyone our kids have faced including in travel ball. We will face them in state next week and need to get some practice in. We have some 12u kids coming to practice this week to pitch to them.

Do this:

Panama Red
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AG
Won the championship at Ripken Experience Pigeon Forge! As CC Bay Ag said, top notch facility and tournament.

The Kid got to meet my kid. Love how he's rocking his now vintage Astros jersey.



12thMan9
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AG
Maybe we should ask this guy:

https://texags.com/s/52635/am-hires-mariners-pitching-coordinator-max-weiner-as-pitching-coach
Ronnie '88
 
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