quote:Amen.
it is fortunate that officials are putting forth a plan that, for once, doesn't involve rail of some kind.
quote:Of course, it wouldn't be COA if they didn't put a huge pricetag on some nebulous projects that aren't really clear how they will help the problem, other than give the city something to brag about to other cities at conferences...
it is unclear how they'll alleviate the space problem many of the solutions simply require more space on roadways that are already cramped on either side by buildings.
quote:I agree with this.
as someone who lived in NYC for a long time and has traveled extensively in and between cities with rail, i'd love a functional rail system here. It blows my mind that they can't come up with a plan that actually makes sense.
quote:Well, we certainly have the corruption. Look at this crappy transportation bond.
Functional rail systems require high density, centralized populations and infrastructure that was originally built and paid for on the backs of poor people and corruption. The rail barons that acquired the necessary ROW's to establish a viable rail system in the north couldn't possibly afford to do it with today's eminent domain costs and labor costs. Southern railways are owned by the freight companies and they don't make money moving people around or clogging up their systems with commuter trains.
Urban rail is a prohibitively expensive and ultimately inefficient pipe-dream. Inter-urban rail and bullet trains might serve a little more purpose, except for the fact that when you get where you're going, you still have to figure out how to move around, unless they terminate in the city-centers.
The South was built for cars. We can't start over. So let's start making some better decisions.
quote:And....the people of Westlake, Tarrytown, Rollingwood, etc....that care so much about "their Austin" don't care about letting rail anywhere near their house. Meanwhile, Austin traffic will continue to choke and get worse. I'm shocked that the lame Mopac toll was even allowed.
Only reason rail won't work here is bc people won't give up driving bc they think mass transit is for the poor.
quote:
Only reason rail won't work here is bc people won't give up driving bc they think mass transit is for the poor.
quote:
Functional rail systems require high density, centralized populations and infrastructure that was originally built and paid for on the backs of poor people and corruption. The rail barons that acquired the necessary ROW's to establish a viable rail system in the north couldn't possibly afford to do it with today's eminent domain costs and labor costs. Southern railways are owned by the freight companies and they don't make money moving people around or clogging up their systems with commuter trains.
Urban rail is a prohibitively expensive and ultimately inefficient pipe-dream. Inter-urban rail and bullet trains might serve a little more purpose, except for the fact that when you get where you're going, you still have to figure out how to move around, unless they terminate in the city-centers.
The South was built for cars. We can't start over. So let's start making some better decisions.
quote:
A light rail from RR to downtown Austin would be packed every day. But for the life of me I don't know how you find the right of way. I still think a commuter focused system like DC's metro would work here. But, I don't think you can ever make it cost effective. You either have to realize it is going to be subsidized by the tax payer or be underfunded.
quote:
Only reason rail won't work here is bc people won't give up driving bc they think mass transit is for the poor.
quote:The problem is the take it all or get none of it nature of this. Many school districts pull this crap too so they can hold needed classroom improvements hostage so they can get their new football stadium.
I think the main issue is that Adler wants to use a large portion of it to add sidewalks and bike lanes to the North/South Corridors like Lamar and Guadalupe. If the bond was mostly for road expansion, I think youd have a different response...
quote:you need population density and employment density to achieve a ridership that is worthwhile.
Do we really have that many people that work downtown to justify that type rail expense? I realize Austin is growing at a ridiculous rate but downtown Austin is pretty small compared to the Chicago, NYC & LA's of the world. Also, isn't Austin the 4th/5th largest in Texas?
I saw a comment about people viewing public transportation being for poor people. I housed my brother years back when I lived in the arboretum area. He didn't have a vehicle so he used the bus route and the routes were ridiculous IMO. The time spent waiting along with the multiple stops would make it worth driving if one had the ability to do so.
quote:Somehow, the DART rail line in Dallas seems to do ok. No idea about the financial side of it though.
Functional rail systems require high density, centralized populations and infrastructure that was originally built and paid for on the backs of poor people and corruption. The rail barons that acquired the necessary ROW's to establish a viable rail system in the north couldn't possibly afford to do it with today's eminent domain costs and labor costs. Southern railways are owned by the freight companies and they don't make money moving people around or clogging up their systems with commuter trains.
Urban rail is a prohibitively expensive and ultimately inefficient pipe-dream. Inter-urban rail and bullet trains might serve a little more purpose, except for the fact that when you get where you're going, you still have to figure out how to move around, unless they terminate in the city-centers.
The South was built for cars. We can't start over. So let's start making some better decisions.
quote:I will agree that a future of automated cars and buses probably solves most of the problems and will probably get here before Austin gets a meaningful rail system in place.
Problem is light rail isnt fast enough. You have to have unimpeded tracks. Have to have an elevated train and that is not going to happen. Would cost about the same as the Texas GDP.
Then there is population density. Texas has a density problem.
I loved living in London and popping on the tube to go wherever. But, it just won't work here.
The future is automated cars and buses.
quote:
Particularly galling for DART's fiscal critics is that a relatively small amount of the agency's $400 million-plus annual operating costs are covered by fares about 12 percent from 2007 to 2011, according to the National Transit Database.
quote:I've heard this before. How do driverless cars reduce traffic? I grant you that they could make traffic flow more smoothly, but they don't take cars off the street.quote:you need population density and employment density to achieve a ridership that is worthwhile.
Do we really have that many people that work downtown to justify that type rail expense? I realize Austin is growing at a ridiculous rate but downtown Austin is pretty small compared to the Chicago, NYC & LA's of the world. Also, isn't Austin the 4th/5th largest in Texas?
I saw a comment about people viewing public transportation being for poor people. I housed my brother years back when I lived in the arboretum area. He didn't have a vehicle so he used the bus route and the routes were ridiculous IMO. The time spent waiting along with the multiple stops would make it worth driving if one had the ability to do so.
most studies say you need a population density around 10,000 people per square mile.
Austin's is about 3,300 ppl/sq mi. I'm not sure on the job density.
the issue is that driverless cars and buses will be available well before Austin ever hits a meaningful population density to raise ridership to levels that matter.
Austin is certainly better off in creating a unified central business district due to zoning unlike Houston. But, there is still too much unincorporated land and other nearby cities that businesses will build in rather than pay high cost lease space of downtown.
quote:I've seen those shared smart cars downtown for years. Folks I know that live down here have access, but consider them expensive for the service.
Driverless cars and car sharing type service is the key. If cars are available on demand at the ends of the bus route, then mass transit becomes more appealing.
Plus, if a car is available when you need it through a car sharing service, then you may see decrease in car ownership as people choose to only have cars as needed.
