I do own that term. I do embrace it. The fewer people living near me the better.

Having said that, those with incomes from 90-115k as stated above are not lower middle class. They're probably closer to upper middle class depending on how many kids they have. Most people in this country rate themselves as middle class even though that is not the actual case according to the math.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/09/10/a-third-of-americans-now-say-they-are-in-the-lower-classes/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/02/middle-class-poll_n_7487868.html


My thought isn't necessarily related to price, but space. I think people that own or rent million dollar apartments in NYC live like rats due to the space constraints and number of people close by. It's inhumane.

So a lot size of 8000 square feet is criminal. I think the minimum lot size in town should be 1/2 acre. Just to keep some spacing and sanity. And I think that half acre lot should cost about 30-50k. There are lots of nice starter houses in Creek Meadows or wherever that seem to fit the mold of the income parameters described by posters above. But the (nice) houses practically touch roof eaves, there are 15 foot setbacks from the street, and you couldn't have friends over to visit your nice house on a culdesac because there is no room to park in the street because the driveways nearly touch.

Don't blame me. Blame the price gouging developers who build these neighborhoods with jacked up prices and profit margins, and then drive 30 minutes out of town to their 1000 acre ranches during the week and their Lakehouses on the weekends.

The developers whom I've argued with before would say that the price of developing is so high because the price of land is so high. Maybe the racetrack sells for 8 million, so that means that they want to do 5000 super tiny super expensive lots to make their profits. Somebody has to draw the line somewhere and say that a tiny lot isn't worth tons of money. A giant loss or two in this town would make the developers reevaluate their current business models to buy high and sell extremely high.

TLDR...

I'm not saying college educated people in affordable housing are criminals as was implied above.

I AM saying the population density leads to crime, and I'm saying that this town needs to grow WEST.

Slocum - as I've discussed with developers on other threads, CS doesn't require hardly anything....no road improvements near the developments, no cable, no fiber, no sewer, no gas.....

Examples include:
Bentwood
Duck Haven
Saddle Creek
Tuscany Trace
Hidden Springs
Sendera
Millican Reserve
Indian Lakes
Nantucket

Prices are high because they keep expanding along the Hwy Frontage. As CS refuses to build good East/West Roads, and then ruins them when one is occasionally built (Hwy40 as an example). If good East/West roads were built with proper planning, then developers would be more inclined to buy cheaper land further from the highway. They may still price gouge with lots because the market has become accustomed to it by now. But that isn't known for sure.

East-west isn't going to work not because there's not a lot of viable roads out there but because there's not a lot of room. Let's say that TxDOT agreed to expand Highway 40 to Highway 47, heck, let's even say it was a fully free freeway (not gonna happen but wishful thinking here), there's already a number of sprawling subdivisions out there (Quail Run Estates, a swath earmarked for Mission Ranch/Great Oaks, Estates at River Run, The Barracks, and those are going to be the ones that benefit from "highway access", and even if that wasn't true, the geography of our area prevents it.

Let's take the intersection of Rock Prairie and Highway 6 for example of our "center of town", which already is a handicap since it's located relatively southeast anyway to campus (and for simplicity, I'm going with "railroad north" in that the north/south lines align with the railroad, not the poles). 5 miles west you come to the Brazos River and the border of the county. Beyond that is Burleson County, which is zoned to Caldwell schools and there's a lot of fertile farmland that likely won't be used until it becomes too expensive to use as that purpose.

5 miles east is Highway 30, which only has a small amount of land that's not buffered by a large floodplain from Carter's Creek, an even larger Navasota River floodplain, and an effort for Bryan to expand all the way out to Highway 30. King Oaks did develop up there beyond Brazos County but it's obviously not a huge success since there's no other new subdivisions out there with the same idea. North is blocked by Bryan, so going south is the only way to go for the foreseeable future.

EDIT: Written before Slocum on a mobile posted, but he has the same idea

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lots of freedom and property rights hating folks on here. I heard all of this NIMBY and "I gots mine the rest of you needs to live out in....." CRAP when I lived in Austin in the 90's.
Sad that so many are so worked up to tell others where and how they should live. To tell developer hw they should operate and to actually call a capitalist "GREEDY" ! Developers are the lifeblood of a city. God Bless Em and the work they do and the money they RISK so we can have a place to live up in Gods Country and they can make TONS of MONEY !!! Its the American WAY !!!!

These are not the can do and freedom loving attitudes that built this state, it's what I expect from NE social engineering types.

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Knocked it out of the park. We need more housing options in BCS, and not all of them have to be $500K options, either.

Ok so you don't believe in a free market.

If 1/2 acre lots should cost $30K you should buy some land, plat it, do the necessary work and sell them at that price.

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Sad that so many are so worked up to tell others where and how they should live.
<snip>
These are not the can do and freedom loving attitudes that built this state, it's what I expect from NE social engineering types.

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Yes, I can agree with this, although to be fair I have plenty of Yankee relatives who are as "everyone should mind their own business" as they come. Very frugal but they don't tell anyone else how to spend their money or live their life.

Now, based on some of the comments, I think I am going to pull some savings out and build a development. Picture this: a moat with alligators, a drawbridge with 24 hour armored security and instead of an inoperable fountain, the HOA will have a working trebuchet. I am having trouble coming up with a name, though. At first I thought 'Unicornlandia" but I think that is too long to put on a sign.....

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And I doubt that the overlords in the city Dept of Gawd Knows What ( headed by someone making $130,000 yr ) whose only function is to enforce meaningless endless regs and rules would approve of your sign since THEY don't feel that it would be appropriate.

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East-west isn't going to work not because there's not a lot of viable roads out there but because there's not a lot of room. Let's say that TxDOT agreed to expand Highway 40 to Highway 47, heck, let's even say it was a fully free freeway (not gonna happen but wishful thinking here), there's already a number of sprawling subdivisions out there (Quail Run Estates, a swath earmarked for Mission Ranch/Great Oaks, Estates at River Run, The Barracks, and those are going to be the ones that benefit from "highway access", and even if that wasn't true, the geography of our area prevents it.

Let's take the intersection of Rock Prairie and Highway 6 for example of our "center of town", which already is a handicap since it's located relatively southeast anyway to campus (and for simplicity, I'm going with "railroad north" in that the north/south lines align with the railroad, not the poles). 5 miles west you come to the Brazos River and the border of the county. Beyond that is Burleson County, which is zoned to Caldwell schools and there's a lot of fertile farmland that likely won't be used until it becomes too expensive to use as that purpose.

5 miles east is Highway 30, which only has a small amount of land that's not buffered by a large floodplain from Carter's Creek, an even larger Navasota River floodplain, and an effort for Bryan to expand all the way out to Highway 30. King Oaks did develop up there beyond Brazos County but it's obviously not a huge success since there's no other new subdivisions out there with the same idea. North is blocked by Bryan, so going south is the only way to go for the foreseeable future.

EDIT: Written before Slocum on a mobile posted, but he has the same idea

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You are correct ..I have a place in Quail Run and have been AMAZED at what folks are suddenly paying for old worn out homes on acreage lots there. However there really is a lot of room for some development in that area. I drive around the area tween Wellborn Hwy and the river and discover new roads and homes constantly yet there is also still a lot of land open for nice development. What is needed is NOT a State Highway BUT for the dormant county government to start to WAKE UP and build some parallel N-S and a few good E-W connector streets ( like Rock and Green P) to facilitate the growth and development of the area.
But before that could happen the Rock Prairie and Wellborn so-called intersection needs to be totally blown up and rebuilt. WORST grade crossing design I've ever seen..did the idiots even do a traffic study ??

You stink at math.

Please enlighten me. Do you know anything about the cost per lot of fully developing raw land in the city of College Station once you have acquired the property(engineering, permits, grading, detention, streets, site utilities, parkland dedication etc...)? I'll hang up and listen. Thanks

The East side of 6 is mostly Navasota floodplain, so growth needs to happen west and northwest.

Connecting 40 and 47, and 159 and 21 would be a start for College Station. I'm sure Bryanites have good ideas on what connector roads need to be built up that way.

But without any good east west roads, we'll continue to work towards being the tallest and skinniest Hearnebryancollegestationnavasota town in the world, 40 miles tall and 1.5 miles narrow.

Also - what is wrong with farmland ? Where do you think FOOD comes from ? Unregulated capitalism is great until there is no food. And then someone will recognize the market need for food, and then they'll realize that open space is needed for growing food, and it will be a problem because suburbia is everywhere....

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EDIT: Written before Slocum on a mobile posted, but he has the same idea

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You are correct ..I have a place in Quail Run and have been AMAZED at what folks are suddenly paying for old worn out homes on acreage lots there. However there really is a lot of room for some development in that area. I drive around the area tween Wellborn Hwy and the river and discover new roads and homes constantly yet there is also still a lot of land open for nice development. What is needed is NOT a State Highway BUT for the dormant county government to start to WAKE UP and build some parallel N-S and a few good E-W connector streets ( like Rock and Green P) to facilitate the growth and development of the area.
But before that could happen the Rock Prairie and Wellborn so-called intersection needs to be totally blown up and rebuilt. WORST grade crossing design I've ever seen..did the idiots even do a traffic study ??

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Wait until Greens Prairie at Wellborn opens. It will be a cluster.

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King Oaks did develop up there beyond Brazos County but it's obviously not a huge success since there's no other new subdivisions out there with the same idea.

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Even if that particular conclusion was a bit hastily concluded, no need for insults, sir. If there are similar additional out-of-county subdivisions off of Highway 30, please feel free to enlighten us.

If you agree with Saratoga that we should not be building subdivisions along South Highway 6, just say so.

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If there are similar additional out-of-county subdivisions off of Highway 30, please feel free to enlighten us.

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Additional out of county subdivisions off highway 30 and the success or failure of King Oaks do not go hand-in-hand. Maybe there's no large tracts of land for sale out there. Maybe there's a large floodplain. Maybe there's a big ol' landfill.

The limitation for developing off of 30 in Grimes County is not lack of large tracts, it's not large floodplains, and it's not landfill.

Several developers have tested the waters Grimes County. They concluded that there is no profit in the market for homes zoned to Iola ISD while the jobs are in BCS. It's a driving distance issue. Home > 20 miles to school drop off > 35 miles to work > 35 miles to school > 20 miles to home = too much commuting. The only buyers interested in that are retirees or empty nesters, which is too small of a segment of the local population for them to turn a positive profit.

Aren't there predictions that BCS will be flooded with retirees soon? Have certainly heard that, and if true, will not be that small a market at all.

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The limitation for developing off of 30 in Grimes County is not lack of large tracts, it's not large floodplains, and it's not landfill.

Several developers have tested the waters Grimes County. They concluded that there is no profit in the market for homes zoned to Iola ISD while the jobs are in BCS. It's a driving distance issue. Home > 20 miles to school drop off > 35 miles to work > 35 miles to school > 20 miles to home = too much commuting. The only buyers interested in that are retirees or empty nesters, which is too small of a segment of the local population for them to turn a positive profit.

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today yes..... but I think that this segment will be a YUUUUGGGEEE segment of the local scene starting about now....
The first of the " modern" Aggie classes ( early 70's and up) are just now starting to retire. Unlike our dads who went back to small town Texas or to the ranch we are coming to BCS in significant numbers. And a BIG subset of us want what we couldn't have in Houston/Ft Worth/SA...... Our retirement designed house with room for a big ole yard and a big ole burn pit and a big ole barn and a big ole tractor and a big ole gator just to drive from nowhere to nowhere and chickens ( wife idea) that can attract the rat snakes that said wife can freak out about and ..........well you get the idea. A lot of those 40 -50 lot subdivisions that are on Wellborn fit that mold and sell FAST. I can see even more popping up in Grimes. Lots of Grimes county is just as pretty as Washington County that was the go to place for thousands of Houston retirees for the last 20 years. Wash Cnty is overpriced and full up now so I fully expect the developers to begin to look at Grimes and Burleson Cnty next for the huge wave thats a coming...

Just saw FlyRod's post. Yes..I am one and I know of MANY MANY classmates that are in the process. We tailgate at the AFS and mingle with lots of Formers my age or a tad younger. Moving to BCS is a prime conversation every gameday

I agree with techno-ag.

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My personal intuition agrees with you, '76, that the market for it is coming. For now, the market for retirees is saturated by the large lots in Millican, Traditions, Miramont, Duck Haven, Austin Estates etc. Several local developers have spent some real coin to do the market analysis and concluded that Grimes Co's not likely to turn profit. I'm sure someone else will rerun the math in a few months/years (and maybe reach different conclusions), but for now there's no projects in the pipeline off of 30 in Grimes county.

Meanwhile, the NIMBY attitude of "I don't want anyone else near me" is leading to rapid climbs in home prices. The Southern Pointe project is exactly slated to relieve the pressure and provide affordable rooftops to continue the growth. If ya'll want nice stuff, we need more rooftops.

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Speaking of which, I didn't see a lot of (new?) outrage when College Station PDS had a site plan for an apartment complex at Decatur and Arrington.

Back to my original question.....I noticed the speedway website now lists events all the way to the end of 2017. Did the Southern Pointe project get pushed back even further? Or did it get cancelled?

KBTX: Time for a followup story. You had a story in Mar 2015 that said the track was shutting down in June 2015 and that the developer hoped to have the first home owners moving in by the Summer of 2016. http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Texas-Speedway-Set-to-Close-to-Develop--296510221.html

#Exxxccceeelllllent
#Smithers
#EastsideNimbys

#GrowthWest

But seriously - did the racetrack get more funding ?

Was there a leaking underground storage tank ?

Did the developer find another option with quicker returns ?

And for those of you in favor of it....remember that Tower Point and HEB took practically 10 years to get done.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the large property for sale at Peach Creek & Hwy 6.

The Original AG 76 said:

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today yes..... but I think that this segment will be a YUUUUGGGEEE segment of the local scene starting about now....
The first of the " modern" Aggie classes ( early 70's and up) are just now starting to retire. Unlike our dads who went back to small town Texas or to the ranch we are coming to BCS in significant numbers. And a BIG subset of us want what we couldn't have in Houston/Ft Worth/SA...... Our retirement designed house with room for a big ole yard and a big ole burn pit and a big ole barn and a big ole tractor and a big ole gator just to drive from nowhere to nowhere and chickens ( wife idea) that can attract the rat snakes that said wife can freak out about and ..........well you get the idea. A lot of those 40 -50 lot subdivisions that are on Wellborn fit that mold and sell FAST. I can see even more popping up in Grimes. Lots of Grimes county is just as pretty as Washington County that was the go to place for thousands of Houston retirees for the last 20 years. Wash Cnty is overpriced and full up now so I fully expect the developers to begin to look at Grimes and Burleson Cnty next for the huge wave thats a coming...

Just saw FlyRod's post. Yes..I am one and I know of MANY MANY classmates that are in the process. We tailgate at the AFS and mingle with lots of Formers my age or a tad younger. Moving to BCS is a prime conversation every gameday

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Completely agree. I'm one of many in the same boat. Wife and I decided a few years ago that BCS is where we want to retire. Spent a year looking at all the potential lots in the area and bought a vacant one in Indian Lakes. We got into a new area in 4 wheel drive before they were finished clearing stumps out of it. The lots were going fast, and we jumped on one. Glad we did. Spent almost another year designing a house and finding the right builder. And then almost another year to finish the house after they broke ground. But now it's done and is our little piece of heaven on earth.

Still at least 10 years before retirement, but we realized to land where we wanted, we needed to get in on the action before all the "good" spots were gone. We can always sell and upgrade later if something better comes along.