You are smart enough to know that being tempted by something is different than actually thinking I am going to cheat with x. Yeshua did not think, oh, let me think about that Satan. For example, someone coming up to you asking you if you want drugs is being tempted, that does not mean you thought about doing it.

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i dont like that definition because it means that a simple thought can doom you to a life of eternal damnation.

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It's not an easy thought but it's exactly what Jesus says.

You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

That's the Christian perspective.

Going secular I would say those thoughts are the start of the action. If you keep entertaining the idea of cheating on your spouse then you are increasing the likelihood of the action occurring. Even if it doesn't you are changing the perspective of your own spouse in your own mind because you are telling yourself he/she is not good enough to meet your needs.

And when I said we I meant we. I've never cheated on my spouse but I have had thoughts that Jesus would say I've committed adultery.

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You are smart enough to know that being tempted by something is different than actually thinking I am going to cheat with x. Yeshua did not think, oh, let me think about that Satan. For example, someone coming up to you asking you if you want drugs is being tempted, that does not mean you thought about doing it.

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How do you know he never thought about or considered sinning? Does the text support that?

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Source? And do you know the source of all the diamonds you own?

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http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6563338

And my diamonds came from a store that is a member of Responsible Jewellery Council and their diamonds are sourced using the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme.

We have text stating Yeshua never sinned. We have text stating as Frok posted that if you look at a woman to lust after her he has already committed adultery. There are other ones in Matthew 5 and other places stating just the thought in your mind is committing the sin. Therefore, it is not a very large step to conclude that Yeshua had pure thoughts.

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We have text stating Yeshua never sinned. We have text stating as Frok posted that if you look at a woman to lust after her he has already committed adultery. There are other ones in Matthew 5 and other places stating just the thought in your mind is committing the sin. Therefore, it is not a very large step to conclude that Yeshua had pure thoughts.

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Simply being aware of the option to sin isn't the same as being tempted. I could walk pass a person on the street and be aware of the fact that I could murder him. However, that isn't the same as being tempted to murder him.

Being tempted to do something is being enticed to do so. It is considering the fact that you could take an action as well as the consequences of the action should you do it.

There is a difference between being tempted to sin and making plans to sin. In both cases you haven't actually taken an action, but in one case you have simply considered the option and the consequences.

If Jesus being tempted was really just Satan letting him know he had other options, then the entire wilderness story is pointless. Considering Jesus was supposedly all-knowing, of course he was aware he had the option to sin. I don't consider that the same thing as being tempted.

Very few makes plans to sin. How many people plan to cheat on their spouse? It happens. It is a touch here or a kind word there. Before you know it you are thinking about that person. This is the beginning of sin. It is typically not planned. Can it be planned sure, but it's not typical.

It is obvious you and I have different definitions of being tempted. Being tempted just means one was enticed to do something. It does not mean that you have to contemplate actually doing the action.

I never said it was Satan telling Yeshua He had other options. The point was Satan enticed, invited, etc Yeshua to do something. Yeshua refuted Satan by quoting Torah. There is nothing in the story to state Yeshua contemplated Satan's offer. He refuted with Scripture each of Satan's offers.

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I was asking for your source that makes you think that watching porn with your husband/wife/cool uncle leads to less healthy relationships. I can't find any studies which support that, and I have found several which support the opposite. This one, for example, shows negative correlation between mutual consumption of porn and relationship distress.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2012.751077?scroll=top&needAccess=true

It also showed a significant negative correlation between men's honesty about consuming porn and relationship dissatisfaction. That makes sense to me. I'm not aware of anyone who has lied about that, but it seems like that would be a big red flag that the relationship has issues.

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Is the theory that your wife would be okay with your porn consumption as long as she knows about it? I find that hard to believe. "Hang on a second honey, just finishing up" <awkward>

Just love your wife. Appreciate her beauty. Tell her you desire none other than her and stop watching other women to get yourself off. I promise you that will improve your marriage much more than watching porn together.

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Source? And do you know the source of all the diamonds you own?

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If the market for any porn supports human trafficking then The market for any diamonds supports human trafficking.

Just so I'm clear, agie95. Wet dreams, also sin?

Although I find a lot of wisdom in most of the statements attributed to Christ, this is one of the ones that I feel, skeptical, about.

Thinking about doing something and actually doing it simply aren't the same thing, and only a dullard would say so. I don't think Christ was a dullard. Ask your wife sometime if she thinks you being tempted to cheat or actually cheating are the same thing. No one actually thinks that.

Now. I would speculate that what Christ was initially driving at, if he did indeed say something along those lines, is that contemplating sinning can put you on a path to sinning, which of course makes complete sense. You should certainly guard your thoughts, particularly if you are in a committed relationship.

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Now. I would speculate that what Christ was initially driving at, if he did indeed say something along those lines, is that contemplating sinning can put you on a path to sinning, which of course makes complete sense. You should certainly guard your thoughts, particularly if you are in a committed relationship.

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I think was Christ was driving at is what he said, that lust is sinful. He said "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

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Just so I'm clear, agie95. Wet dreams, also sin?

Although I find a lot of wisdom in most of the statements attributed to Christ, this is one of the ones that I feel, skeptical, about.

Thinking about doing something and actually doing it simply aren't the same thing, and only a dullard would say so. I don't think Christ was a dullard. Ask your wife sometime if she thinks you being tempted to cheat or actually cheating are the same thing. No one actually thinks that.

Now. I would speculate that what Christ was initially driving at, if he did indeed say something along those lines, is that contemplating sinning can put you on a path to sinning, which of course makes complete sense. You should certainly guard your thoughts, particularly if you are in a committed relationship.

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You are arguing with Christ, not me...But I tell you that everyone who looks upon a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.Matt 5:27

In your explanation you said doing something and actually doing it simply aren't the same thing, tell that to someone who is told each and everyday they are going to get hit, punished, beat up etc. Tell that to them. Words matter. Thoughts matter.

You can speculate all day long, Christ clearly taught the opposite of what you think. Actually, the items in Matthew 5 are discussed in the Talmud with the same conclusion....sin starts long before the action ever takes place.

Guarding is a very Hebraic thought....be careful.

Sounds like you guys need to define what actually constitutes "lust". Is it looking? Imagining? The "want"? Truly desiring/coveting what you're looking upon?

I see the disagreement is where sin starts not what constitutes lust. People don't like to think that their private thoughts and desires can be judged, but that is not what Scripture says. Christians lean way too much on the salvation of Christ. It is not a free get out of jail card.

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, and drive out demons in Your name, and perform many miracles in Your name?' Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Get away from Me, you workers of lawlessness!'" Matthew 7:22-23

You're welcome to see the disagreement that way, but much of the banter back and forth about cheating in the mind centers on this:

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everyone who looks upon a woman to lust after her

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It doesn't just say "everyone that looks upon a woman", so until you define what "lust after her" means then everyone will likely be talking past each other about that point.

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That's why I just go ahead and do it if I think about it. God can't punish you twice for the same crime; that's double jeopardy.

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I wish i had more blue stars for this.

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is "015423" a sin? what about "damn that girls hot" or "id hit that" or what about the entire houston traffic and weather girl appreciation thread?

now on the flip side, and im sure this will catch some grief, but what abut the rise of social media and photogrpahs that were meant strictly to entice men/viewers? are those women sinners?

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That's my point. The extremist would say all that you mentioned is sinful. Others would say that they can look at an attractive woman (or a part of an attractive woman) and not "desire/lust" after it; they can simply admire it, compliment it, and move on without wanting it.

So until everyone is clear on their definitions of what lusting is, then we're talking about apples and oranges.

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That's my point. The extremist would say all that you mentioned is sinful. Others would say that they can look at an attractive woman (or a part of an attractive woman) and not "desire/lust" after it; they can simply admire it, compliment it, and move on without wanting it.

So until everyone is clear on their definitions of what lusting is, then we're talking about apples and oranges.

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Seems like you're trying to legislate your way into some sort of morality. I think most everyone can admit that most of that list is lust...it's just that people think of the word lust and think of some advanced form, or they just want to be ok with their level of "debauchery" because they don't think it's so bad. It's ok if you think "this form is ok", but I think that's where the debate should be, rather than trying to say that it's not lust at all.

The definition of the Greek word used is:
Lust = desire, specially of those things that are forbidden. or to turn upon a thing

1 John 2:16 - For everything in the world the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, and the boasting of life is not from the Father but from the world.

I'm not trying to legislate anything. Words have meanings, and clearly the words in this line of the Bible have been construed different ways.

As agie95 just stated, the definition of the word lust (in the greek) = desire. Third Coast was always taught that just thinking about it (not necessarily desire) was a sin. Desire implies a want, not a notice....nor even an admiration, but a want. But fundamentalist teaching often implied, or in some cases flat out stated, that just noticing a woman was sinful in itself which is not what the verse states.

Do you think there is a difference between admiration and noticing?

Absolutely.

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Words have meanings, and clearly the words in this line of the Bible have been construed different ways.

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yes, but these are translations and interpretations inside. I don't know that the authors intended the parsing of the words down to acceptable synonyms and then a dissection of those....and being honest, usually this occurs when one really wants the outcome to be a certain way.

Stepping back, I think we can reasonably conclude that 1) there is room to merely notice that someone is attractive without sinning, and 2) anything past this becomes lust. Sure, not fully raging lust...but we'd be lieing to ourselves if we think that rating women on looks is completely innocent.

I don't really think this was an entirely new teaching. Exodus 20:17 already says not to covet your neighbor's wife. I just think Jesus was saying that the mental and emotional act of adultery, even if imaginary, is just as bad as the physical act. So I don't think noticing an attractive woman is a sin or even commenting that someone is attractive. However, if I start to talk about the acts I want to perform with her or even imagine those things, then I am just as guilty as someone who has done those physical acts. It's about my heart. If my heart wants to commit adultery, then the fact that the opportunity has not yet presented itself is not a mark in my favor.

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You are arguing with Christ, not me...But I tell you that everyone who looks upon a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.Matt 5:27

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Not really, I'm arguing with your personal interpretation of words attributed to Christ written 40+ years after he actually said them.

You really need to check your hubris at the door, agie95. As strict as you like to pretend you adhere to the Bible, I'm relatively certain that humility is one of it's bigger topics.

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Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, and drive out demons in Your name, and perform many miracles in Your name?' Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you. Get away from Me, you workers of lawlessness!'" Matthew 7:22-23

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A passage which is directly contradicted by other quotes attributed to Christ:

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39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward. Mark 9: 39-41

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I'm sure you have someway of interpreting away the contradiction, and I really have no desire to argue with that, I'm merely pointing this out to stress that your personal interpretation has a lot to do with your stance and you certainly, certainly, do not speak for Christ.

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I think I can reasonably conclude

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FIFY

My interpretation comes straight from the roots of what is called Christianity. Christians in general don't like this interpretation so they moved along and created a new religion. I am not the only one stating this opinion on this thread, so it really appears you are coming after me and not the idea. Or maybe this issue is hitting home and you don't like it?